[2359glenn]

In several threads I see many members claiming that they avoid OTLs because they hate tube rolling. There is no reason to tube roll unless you want to.

I know next to nothing about tubes,and other than changing drivers I do not roll tubes very often,if ever.
My GOTL has 10 sockets. I keep my rectifier and power tubes in place all the time. I have a couple detailed drivers for warm headphones,like the Atticus,and a couple warm drivers for detailed headphones.
Changing a single tube isnt hard and takes less than a minute.

Find an OTL that youre interested in,read the thread,find the tube combos that established owners rave about,go buy said combo,and enjoy. It can really be that easy if you allow it to be.

Heck you should have got the basic model with 4 tube sockets 1 rectifier 2 output and 1 driver could have saved some money

 

[Monsterzero]

Heck you should have got the basic model with 4 tube sockets 1 rectifier 2 output and 1 driver could have saved some money

Nah,I like to leave myself room to improve upon after learning the hows and whys of tubes,and if I never do become a hardcore roller and ever decide to sell my Glenn(I wont) the resale value is much higher.

That being said your amps are killer for ZMF headphones,now get off the computer and get outta town before that hurricane bears down upon you.

 

[Odin412]

We could argue about whether the WA3 is a truly great OTL amp, or whether one of the balanced big-boy OTLs might be a better test. Regardless, I really liked what I heard.

I have a WA3 and I really enjoy it as well. It's a great pairing with high-impedance headphones and I'm hoping to add an Atticus to my collection in the not too distant future.

 

[2359glenn]

Nah,I like to leave myself room to improve upon after learning the hows and whys of tubes,and if I never do become a hardcore roller and ever decide to sell my Glenn(I wont) the resale value is much higher.

That being said your amps are killer for ZMF headphones,now get off the computer and get outta town before that hurricane bears down upon you.

I have been through a few good ones that went up the cost and slammed into LI.
Nothing like watching 7620 volts dancing around on the ground in front of your house.
Makes 4th of July boring.

 

[Pharmaboy]

this is good timing! i've been saving for a V280/281 amp to be my end game amp, but i'm thinking maybe stay with my RS08 for solid state and go OTL for a secondary amp. can you give any impressions of the OTL amp you heard vs your V281 for the Eikon? i'll be honest, i hate tube rolling, so i'm trying to avoid going OTL, but everyone who's heard the Eikon on a top tier OTL swears by them vs solid state. what's your opinion?

Well, take this from someone who owns 6 SS amps + 1 OTL tube amp (I'm a real "amp 'ho")...but I honestly would want both SS and OTL for this endgame HP with highly flexible, modifiable sound:

• Solid State: On the balanced output of my V281 , the Eikon is very impressive, with crushing bass, the best sub-bass I've ever heard, a huge, detail-rich (but not at all fatiguing) midrange, big & rich treble, and the best imaging/soundstaging I've ever heard from a closed back (and nearly better than any open design I've heard. The dynamics are the best I've heard from any type of headphone (dynamics are clearly a strong suit of both the Eikon & the V281). Note that I hear essentially the same things from other quality SS amps (Liquid Carbon v2; Lake People G109-A.
  • On SS, the Eikon sounds big, bold, and very musical from top to bottom--a very wide sonic range of goodness w/real "jump factor"
  • The only fly in the ointment is a tendency (source- and music genre-specific) for the upper mids/lower treble to hit a little too hard, but a bit too incisive for my treble-averse tastes. But to be fair, this fades in importance given the overall musicality and dynamism of the total sound
• OTL/tube (Woo WA3): Here is a subtly different, but very nice sound from the Eikon. It's not easy to put into words: I hear great cohesiveness/all-of-one-piece quality in the sound. It's musical, as the Eikon always is, but more relaxed and organic (Eikon is these things on SS, too, but more on OTL). Interestingly, I still hear a little sharpenss in upper mids/lower treble, but the overall sound is so cohesive/suave that it just doesn't matter. I had to force myself to check for things like bass depth/sub-bass (perhaps slightly reduced, but not even sure) or midrange richness--but this headphone on an OTL somehow discourages forensic listening. I find the Eikon fed by a high impedance source to be a somewhat different & very interesting headphone.
  • I'm pretty sure that macrodynamics are not a good on OTL as on SS. The Eikon's jump factor is less on the Woo.
  • You might be thinking, "But that's bad, isn't it? Less jump factor is bad?" Well, not really. Again, that cohesive, totally "together" sound trumps the technicalities, at least for me. I found Eikon + Woo to be very addictive
  • Interestingly, I was able to crank the volume higher on this combination than usual w/o inducing headache or aggravating tinnitus. Have no idea why that is, but it's a good thing, if you're me.

My respect for the Eikon continues to grow. This headphone has a lot of moves. I discovered a subtly new/different sonic profile from it, just by switching to an OTL amp. You gotta love that...

To show how the Eikon is lodged into my mind, after my OTL/Eikon session last night, I checked 2 F.S. listings from last week for padauk Eikons. They had both been sold, so I was spared this difficult decision. This from someone w/near-zero interest in owning yet another closed back HP (all my interest recently has been open-backs, mostly planars).

 

[2359glenn]

Well, take this from someone who owns 6 SS amps + 1 OTL tube amp (I'm a real "amp 'ho")...but I honestly would want both SS and OTL for this endgame HP with highly flexible, modifiable sound:

• Solid State: On the balanced output of my V281 , the Eikon is very impressive, with crushing bass, the best sub-bass I've ever heard, a huge, detail-rich (but not at all fatiguing) midrange, big & rich treble, and the best imaging/soundstaging I've ever heard from a closed back (and nearly better than any open design I've heard. The dynamics are the best I've heard from any type of headphone (dynamics are clearly a strong suit of both the Eikon & the V281). Note that I hear essentially the same things from other quality SS amps (Liquid Carbon v2; Lake People G109-A.
  • On SS, the Eikon sounds big, bold, and very musical from top to bottom--a very wide sonic range of goodness w/real "jump factor"
  • The only fly in the ointment is a tendency (source- and music genre-specific) for the upper mids/lower treble to hit a little too hard, but a bit too incisive for my treble-averse tastes. But to be fair, this fades in importance given the overall musicality and dynamism of the total sound
• OTL/tube (Woo WA3): Here is a subtly different, but very nice sound from the Eikon. It's not easy to put into words: I hear great cohesiveness/all-of-one-piece quality in the sound. It's musical, as the Eikon always is, but more relaxed and organic (Eikon is these things on SS, too, but more on OTL). Interestingly, I still hear a little sharpenss in upper mids/lower treble, but the overall sound is so cohesive/suave that it just doesn't matter. I had to force myself to check for things like bass depth/sub-bass (perhaps slightly reduced, but not even sure) or midrange richness--but this headphone on an OTL somehow discourages forensic listening. I find the Eikon fed by a high impedance source to be a somewhat different & very interesting headphone.
  • I'm pretty sure that macrodynamics are not a good on OTL as on SS. The Eikon's jump factor is less on the Woo.
  • You might be thinking, "But that's bad, isn't it? Less jump factor is bad?" Well, not really. Again, that cohesive, totally "together" sound trumps the technicalities, at least for me. I found Eikon + Woo to be very addictive
  • Interestingly, I was able to crank the volume higher on this combination than usual w/o inducing headache or aggravating tinnitus. Have no idea why that is, but it's a good thing, if you're me.

My respect for the Eikon continues to grow. This headphone has a lot of moves. I discovered a subtly new/different sonic profile from it, just by switching to an OTL amp. You gotta love that...

To show how the Eikon is lodged into my mind, after my OTL/Eikon session last night, I checked 2 F.S. listings from last week for padauk Eikons. They had both been sold, so I was spared this difficult decision. This from someone w/near-zero interest in owning yet another closed back HP (all my interest recently has been open-backs, mostly planars).

Not all OTL's sound the same so the Eikon might sound very different on a different OTL other then the WA-3

 

[erics75]

Well, take this from someone who owns 6 SS amps + 1 OTL tube amp (I'm a real "amp 'ho")...but I honestly would want both SS and OTL for this endgame HP with highly flexible, modifiable sound:

• Solid State: On the balanced output of my V281 , the Eikon is very impressive, with crushing bass, the best sub-bass I've ever heard, a huge, detail-rich (but not at all fatiguing) midrange, big & rich treble, and the best imaging/soundstaging I've ever heard from a closed back (and nearly better than any open design I've heard. The dynamics are the best I've heard from any type of headphone (dynamics are clearly a strong suit of both the Eikon & the V281). Note that I hear essentially the same things from other quality SS amps (Liquid Carbon v2; Lake People G109-A.
  • On SS, the Eikon sounds big, bold, and very musical from top to bottom--a very wide sonic range of goodness w/real "jump factor"
  • The only fly in the ointment is a tendency (source- and music genre-specific) for the upper mids/lower treble to hit a little too hard, but a bit too incisive for my treble-averse tastes. But to be fair, this fades in importance given the overall musicality and dynamism of the total sound
• OTL/tube (Woo WA3): Here is a subtly different, but very nice sound from the Eikon. It's not easy to put into words: I hear great cohesiveness/all-of-one-piece quality in the sound. It's musical, as the Eikon always is, but more relaxed and organic (Eikon is these things on SS, too, but more on OTL). Interestingly, I still hear a little sharpenss in upper mids/lower treble, but the overall sound is so cohesive/suave that it just doesn't matter. I had to force myself to check for things like bass depth/sub-bass (perhaps slightly reduced, but not even sure) or midrange richness--but this headphone on an OTL somehow discourages forensic listening. I find the Eikon fed by a high impedance source to be a somewhat different & very interesting headphone.
  • I'm pretty sure that macrodynamics are not a good on OTL as on SS. The Eikon's jump factor is less on the Woo.
  • You might be thinking, "But that's bad, isn't it? Less jump factor is bad?" Well, not really. Again, that cohesive, totally "together" sound trumps the technicalities, at least for me. I found Eikon + Woo to be very addictive
  • Interestingly, I was able to crank the volume higher on this combination than usual w/o inducing headache or aggravating tinnitus. Have no idea why that is, but it's a good thing, if you're me.

My respect for the Eikon continues to grow. This headphone has a lot of moves. I discovered a subtly new/different sonic profile from it, just by switching to an OTL amp. You gotta love that...

To show how the Eikon is lodged into my mind, after my OTL/Eikon session last night, I checked 2 F.S. listings from last week for padauk Eikons. They had both been sold, so I was spared this difficult decision. This from someone w/near-zero interest in owning yet another closed back HP (all my interest recently has been open-backs, mostly planars).

Thank you for an excellent assessment! i know what you mean by cohesive/together, and i also value it quite a bit. looks like i'll be on the lookout for a decent otl. which one though... hmmmmmm

 

[koover]

Well, take this from someone who owns 6 SS amps + 1 OTL tube amp (I'm a real "amp 'ho")...but I honestly would want both SS and OTL for this endgame HP with highly flexible, modifiable sound:

• Solid State: On the balanced output of my V281 , the Eikon is very impressive, with crushing bass, the best sub-bass I've ever heard, a huge, detail-rich (but not at all fatiguing) midrange, big & rich treble, and the best imaging/soundstaging I've ever heard from a closed back (and nearly better than any open design I've heard.

Have you ever heard the TH900? If not, I would confidently state that you should. When it comes to sub bass and soundstage on a closed back, nothing touches it. I have the Atticus and for a closed back, the SS is OK. I don’t own the Eikon but on multiple occasiins have had the pleasure of having lengthy listening sessions and while the sub bass is really really good along with SS,
Still can’t touch the TH900.
Give it a shot sometime if you can if you haven’t. Wish I wouldn’t have sold mine.

As for tube rolling and amps, never understood the thought process on what a PITA it is to roll. It’s as simple as tying your shoes. The benefits are also obvious where you can fine tune the exact sound you're looking for. The biggest issue is actually finding said tube and possibly the cost. Me? I find it enjoyable, not frustrating in the least and a LOT of fun. Can get expensive but if you can afford it, it’s a hobby in itself and believe me, there’s a ton of hardcore rollers out there that believe in it like gospel.

Gumby>Mjolnir2 (diff tubes)> Atticus? .........sublime

Hate it when I do that. Open quote for response.

 

[Pharmaboy]

Not all OTL's sound the same so the Eikon might sound very different on a different OTL other then the WA-3

That is 100% true. The WA3 is the only OTL amp I've heard on the desktop (my long-ago experience w/big 2-channel tube amps doesn't count here). I briefly heard some kick-ass OTLs at CanJam, but that's not an environment that permits subtle distinctions between amps.

It's entirely possible that a larger, more powerful OTL, particularly one w/a balanced output, would present all the sonic cohesion I heard from the Eikon on the Woo--but also maintain that big jump factor.

 

[gLer]

That is 100% true. The WA3 is the only OTL amp I've heard on the desktop (my long-ago experience w/big 2-channel tube amps doesn't count here). I briefly heard some kick-ass OTLs at CanJam, but that's not an environment that permits subtle distinctions between amps.

It's entirely possible that a larger, more powerful OTL, particularly one w/a balanced output, would present all the sonic cohesion I heard from the Eikon on the Woo--but also maintain that big jump factor.

Yes the Woo WA22 is often fondly spoken of in ZMF circles for that very reason. Should be, for the asking price! Very keen to hear the Eikon on the R-28 one day, but not interested in going down the tube rabbit hole again.

 

[GrussGott]

Yes the Woo WA22 is often fondly spoken of in ZMF circles for that very reason. Should be, for the asking price! Very keen to hear the Eikon on the R-28 one day, but not interested in going down the tube rabbit hole again.

Anybody with WA8 or WA2 experience?

 

[Valens7]

Easily my favorite thing about the Atticus is how it doesn't sound "closed" as a closed headphone. The Eikon doesn't manage pull off this trick. Even semi-open alternatives, such as the various Fostex models and the Auteur, don't necessarily best the Atticus in this critical aspect. Unique sonic coloration aside, I've never heard a headphone that succeeds so thoroughly as a properly closed design as does the Atticus.

 

[koover]

Easily my favorite thing about the Atticus is how it doesn't sound "closed" as a closed headphone. The Eikon doesn't manage pull off this trick. Even semi-open alternatives, such as the various Fostex models and the Auteur, don't necessarily best the Atticus in this critical aspect. Unique sonic coloration aside, I've never heard a headphone that succeeds so thoroughly as a properly closed design as does the Atticus.

Interesting man! I love my atty but it just doesn’t sound as open as the Eikon or the Th900 to me. Do you personally hear more hight or width (or both) in the SS? Also what amp/Dac are you running with? I’m still looking for a descently priced SS amp to go along with my MJ2 so I can have he best of both worlds. Would love to hear the Atty on a good SS Amp that doesn’t break the bank. Any suggestions?

I don’t see much love for anything Schiit in this thread with either the Eikon or Atticus.

I’m not taking anything away from the Atty as I love it and is by far my fave and daily driver. IMO, I’d rather have any of Zach’s lineup versus just about anything else, even the highest end and priced HP’s out there. His sound is just in my wheelhouse.

 

[jinxy245]

Interesting man! I love my atty but it just doesn’t sound as open as the Eikon or the Th900 to me. Do you personally hear more hight or width (or both) in the SS? Also what amp/Dac are you running with? I’m still looking for a descently priced SS amp to go along with my MJ2 so I can have he best of both worlds. Would love to hear the Atty on a good SS Amp that doesn’t break the bank. Any suggestions?

I don’t see much love for anything Schiit in this thread with either the Eikon or Atticus.

I’m not taking anything away from the Atty as I love it and is by far my fave and daily driver. IMO, I’d rather have any of Zach’s lineup versus just about anything else, even the highest end and priced HP’s out there. His sound is just in my wheelhouse.

I haven't had enough time with an Atty to say, but the Eikon is definitely the most open closed back headphone I've tried as well, love at 1st listen for me.

As far as a SS amp, the general consensus seems to be the Gilmore Lite MK2 is one of the best affordable amps out there....I'm dying to try it myself.

Good luck with the search & report back impressions please!

 

[erics75]

Interesting man! I love my atty but it just doesn’t sound as open as the Eikon or the Th900 to me. Do you personally hear more hight or width (or both) in the SS? Also what amp/Dac are you running with? I’m still looking for a descently priced SS amp to go along with my MJ2 so I can have he best of both worlds. Would love to hear the Atty on a good SS Amp that doesn’t break the bank. Any suggestions?

I don’t see much love for anything Schiit in this thread with either the Eikon or Atticus.

I’m not taking anything away from the Atty as I love it and is by far my fave and daily driver. IMO, I’d rather have any of Zach’s lineup versus just about anything else, even the highest end and priced HP’s out there. His sound is just in my wheelhouse.

i also think the atticus has a slightly bigger stage than the eikon, though not as big as the th900 (very close though). i do think the midbass presence tends to mask just how large the atticus' stage is. i find more width vs the eikon, with similar depth. the differences arent large, imo. i could see how the added clarity of the eikon could give the impression of a larger stage.

i've been a huge schiit guy over the years, but i honestly dont like any of their amps other than the mj2 for either the atticus or eikon. my main amp before adding the zmf sets was the lyr3, and i loved it with my dt1770, hd800s, and th900. but when i got my atticus it sounded kinda dull. on a whim i picked up a used violectric v100 for cheap, and was immediately floored by how much better the atticus sounded on it. it's clearer, with noticeably better driver control and dynamics, and a larger stage. i've used both the atticus and eikon on my friend's mj2 with various tubes and honestly his best tubes only sound about as good as the v100, to my ears at least (he disagrees, but he equates price to performance more than i do). that turned me into a unapologetic violectric fanboy! and i do think they have great synergy with the eikon and especially the atticus. so if you see a used rs02 or rs08, or a v100 or v200, those would be excellent affordable SS amps for your atticus. for reference, i got my v100 used like new for $400 flat out the door here on HF. cheaper than the lyr3 and i honestly believe it's a better amp. no matter what headphone i threw at it and the lyr, i always preferred the v100. so i sold the lyr3 and am moving up the violectric amp line (currently at rs08, next up v280/281 hopefully). the atticus on the rs08 is insanely good to these old ears. bimby gen 5 usb for dac duty, if you're curious.