[speakerhead]

Wondering how much you have to spend on a headphone amp before you reach a point where you are only getting sound which is 5-10% better than the price point below it using standard headphones like the DT990, HD650, and GS1000/RS1.

 

[oicdn]

$300. Even at that pricepoint I'm thinking I should hunt for a better bargain. I do believe some of the amps above that pricepoint do really sound much better than 10% of an increase, but I simply don't have the expendable income to JUSTIFY the extra money.

 

[speakerhead]

Quote:

Originally Posted by oicdn /img/forum/go_quote.gif $300. Even at that pricepoint I'm thinking I should hunt for a better bargain. I do believe some of the amps above that pricepoint do really sound much better than 10% of an increase, but I simply don't have the expendable income to JUSTIFY the extra money.

so the question is do $1000 or even $3000 amps sound at least 30-50% better than a $300 amp?

 

[kipman725]

about £150...
second hand is the best place to go if you don't mind some DIY work. Building oneself one is the cheap route to the higest of the high end (£600 compared with 6k

)

 

[3x331m]

It depends on how good you can hear, and how deep your wallet is.

Paying for sound quality is just like when you go shopping for diamond. Only the buyers can appreciate the quality in the products.

Anyway, at around $1K, most amps are judged by characters more than quality. Most of them are very good but synergy and signature play a more important role.

 

[boomana]

If you're talking about amps only, then you'd have to consider which headphones you're trying to drive. If you've got a pair of Denons, based on my experience, they won't sound that much different with a $300 amp or a $2500 amp. They'll be improvements, but not so much as it would be worth it if you were buying an amp for those headphones alone. True for other headphones as well. Yet some headphones don't sound nearly as good as they could with most less expensive amps (though they can sound okay), but scale, sometimes dramatically so, with the better, and usually more expensive amps, taking into account individual amp, synergy, etc. (HD650, K701, R10, K1000, the higher end Grados: these I know).

If we're talking sq only, I think the point of diminishing returns doesn't really begin enter until you're in the $2000-$3000 range for amp alone. If you include lifestyle and budget, etc. it becomes highly individual. What's worth it to you may be very different than for someone else, and since there are a lot of very good sounding budget rigs, I wouldn't worry about finding something that's pleasing unless you don't research what you're buying well (e.g., putting a 701 with a portable amp).

 

[jp11801]

while I think this is a great question and at the heart of many debates, see the all amps sound the same threads... trying to quantify improvement is almost impossible because someones last 10% is someone elses last 50%. A lot of this ambiguity comes from the vastly differing levels of exposure we all have to different amps. To compound the issue many have heard a wide range of amps but in meet conditions that in no way shape or form can allow you to hear the real but subtle differences that make a better amp IMHO a must for long term listening.

There is no magic price point frankly I have heard very musical sub $500 amps and so so $2000 amps. Price while a strong indicator is not the final word. I would say that most if not all $300 and below amps have pretty serious comprimises that had to made to get the amp to that price point.
While not the last word in sonics the darkvoice and heed canamp are solid sub $500 offerings and present much upside potential with mods and tube rolling for the darkvoice.

now on to the question I firmly beleive there are great gains to be made in $500 increments that justify the expense for example

a heed canamp is great at $350-$500 but a dynahi or beta blows this amp away IMHO
Now the dynahi and beta are great but balance a dynahi or beta or go for GSX, Zana, or Eddie Current HD2i or SP Supra and you are in a whole new arena.

If you have a headfi community near you and can pop over a members home to hear a fully optimized rig I think you will hear more than a slight difference.

The real question for each of us is when is it worth it and that answer is extremely individual. $2500 for something that I will listen to every day for at least an hour a day is not that much for others it is outside the relam of their budget today.

 

[Computerstud]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jp11801 /img/forum/go_quote.gif <snip> If you have a headfi community near you and can pop over a members home to hear a fully optimized rig <snip>

Hmmm...is this an invite?

Do you have those L3000?

 

[jp11801]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Computerstud /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hmmm...is this an invite? Do you have those L3000?

yes if you are in the area send me a pm and you are more then welcome to come over you just need to bring a couple of beers with you.

no, I sold/traded the leatherheads for hp2 that I find more appealing.

 

[vcoheda]

diminishing returns is relative. allocate as much as your budget will permit and within that range try to find an amp that best suits your needs.

 

[Penchum]

Don't forget that it is "All about a good clean source".

 

[Podster]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vcoheda /img/forum/go_quote.gif diminishing returns is relative. allocate as much as your budget will permit and within that range try to find an amp that best suits your needs.

Ditto!

 

[Zanth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3x331m /img/forum/go_quote.gif It depends on how good you can hear, and how deep your wallet is. Paying for sound quality is just like when you go shopping for diamond. Only the buyers can appreciate the quality in the products. Anyway, at around $1K, most amps are judged by characters more than quality. Most of them are very good but synergy and signature play a more important role.

I agree with this post a whole bunch.

Diminishing returns will depend on the person. For someone who is quite wealthy or does not concern themselves with the price of the amp, then they might be more willing to go up the line after that last 5-10% of the sound vs. someone who might be very content with 80-85% of the goodness and having an amp that runs $750.

No doubt though that at $1k, amps really start crowding each other, stepping on toes etc. At this stage, for most amps, folks really start listening for characteristics (colourations) or buying based on visual appeal more than sound.

Headphones are pretty simple loads, well except for a handful of them, mosty electrostats. With electrostats aside, only the K1000 poses an honest to goodness serious load, then after that the HP1000s with their high current needs. Other than these two phones, most headphones pose little to no problem for most well designed amps, simply because the required power is usually well under 1 W. Get the I and Z right and all else should follow.

 

[tnmike1]

I think it comes down to synergy among all the elements--source/amp/phones/interconnects.

In my case, 5.5g Imod, Portaphile or old Macro III V6, ety4p or Beyer 880s recabled, and several ALO cryo cables.

Now I've tried a buncha amps from samuels--hornet, SR-71, Tomahawk--and have a SM IV LE in Xinland waiting for upgrades. But in all honesty I'm lovin' the synergy between my Imod and old--and inexpensive 'cause it was used--Supermacro III V6. When Ihad it, i also loved theHornet, but finally sold it in favor of thePortaphile.

So to me, it isn't the money, it's the synergy. and I suppose I've got about 1,250 invested in all the above stuff and, short of going for the portable v-cap, I'm about done.

 

[kaushama]

Well one thing is sure in this great hobby!!! Your threshold for point of diminishing return always go further away, when you mature into the hobby! When I first started with PA2V2 and a pair of Sennheiser HD477, I never thought I will buy the stuff that I have today! But I am now thinking of going balanced!!! As time goes your level of appreciation the taste of music grows and your ears get more trained! Then only way is marching forward.
But for beginning I think, the cutoff point is around 300-350$. There is no best setup for that price but there are several ones with different sound qualities. You have to search carefully for the ideal setup for your taste!!