[prismstorm]

  QC concerns over the MKI has me burning in the MKII continously. So if there are any issues it should happen sooner. So far it's still holding. No signs of any issues yet. My unit is already 5 days old.

What exactly were the QC concerns regarding the T8iE Mk1? Was it drivers dying left and right + electrocution of user? 

 

[miketlse]

  What exactly were the QC concerns regarding the T8iE Mk1? Was it drivers dying left and right + electrocution of user? 

 
Search this thread (and the web), and you will find references to drivers dying, and the headphone cord having issues. This was compounded by at least one supplier being very evasive about the issues, and the process for return/replacement. it does seem that if your pair of Mk1 has issues, then it will fail during the first few weeks.
 
Of course you always have to factor in that people with headphone issues will tend to post them on the forums, and people with headphones working properly, will tend to post nothing, so just using the forums as a source of statistics will inevitably introduce an element of negative bias into the analysis.
 
However it is fair to say that had there been no systemic issues, then Beyer would not have stopped production of the Mk1 so quickly, and introduced the Mk2. The disappointing fact is the way that Beyer and the dealers have handled the public relations. 
 
Certainly all these QC concerns have stopped me buying a Mk1, but I am waiting to hear the feedback regarding the Mk2.

 

[miketlse]

The Mk1s were being sold at a 25% discount, but now it has increased to 33% discount.
 
http://www.son-video.com/Rayons/Ecouteur-intra-auriculaire/Beyerdynamic-Astell-Kern-T8ie.html
 
If the price keeps dropping, then I might risk a pair, but not yet.

 

[sandalaudio]

Just to skip to the summary, the verdict is my mk1 is more open sounding and cleaner than the mk2, esp in the mid bass and vocal departments. Bass quantity and quality largely the same, treble also the same. Granted it isn't fair comparing my mk1 which I have been using since last December, the mk2 is just with a week of use. So I am sure the mk2 will sound better with time but it is quite apparent that the mk2 is not superior sounding right out of the box. I think you might get bigger differences from sample variations than comparing mk1 vs 2.

So hopefully my mk1 will continue to be reliable and will gladly wait for the mk3 to come out.

 
I've also done a direct comparison of my Mk1 with the new Mk2, and there were some noticeable differences.
 
I've owned the Mk1 since launch last year, but the unit I have is a third unit I received in replacement a couple of months ago, so it is only burnt in as much.
 
Overall sound stage and presentation felt similar, but Mk2 felt a little brighter and engaging, compared to Mk1 which is fairly deep and relaxed.
To be honest, I really couldn't say that the Mk2 is a far better improvement over the Mk1. Some may like one over the other but I still preferred the Mk1.
This may simply be my mind justifying my ownership of Mk1, but usually I get excited about new model launches, yet I didn't feel that vibe this time.
 
One thing that concerned me a little was that the sound (particularly the high-mids) felt uneasy and nervous. Maybe the attempt to get rid of the original Mk1 complaint of too thick and bassy sound has lead to the Mk2 being tuned this way. (maybe it goes away with burn-in but it was quite noticeable).
 
One funny thing to test is to simply have the left ear with Mk1 and right ear with Mk2, and listen to a monaural track. The difference is quite obvious, though you have to be careful because the two models look identical in appearance so you can never tell them apart visually if they are mixed up.
 
The character I described above is with using the same cable (the Mk2 cable) on both Mk1 and Mk2. I also tried my ALO Tinsel but felt the same tendencies.
The new cable felt better than the old Mk1 cable. It does avoid the bass boom and generally keep the sound tight. I still prefer using my ALO Tinsel since it gives a clearer presentation, though it does sound restrictive in dynamics at times. I think the Mk2 cable is a good all-round compromise solution.
 
Anyhow, I didn't feel an urgent need to chuck out my Mk1 and replace it with the Mk2... thankfully.
 

 

[prismstorm]

I demoed the Mk2 yesterday again and unfortunately found it disappointing this time around, maybe I was too over the moon few days ago discovering that Bluetooth aptX sounded that good. Further evaluation revealed the same flaws as the Mk1, the resolution and timber of vocals and instruments are lacking, as a result it's just not as resolving and realistic as many BA iems I own. I do not know if this is a 'DD' sound or is it unique to AKT8iE, but I don't like it, especially at this price. The bass does move a lot of air, I'd give it that, and things sound more 'chaotic and live' than 'refined and control'. Plus the QC issues are really scary, and I have had terrible experiences with AK and their original Layla  (RMA 3 times). 

 

[sandalaudio]

  I demoed the Mk2 yesterday again and unfortunately found it disappointing this time around, maybe I was too over the moon few days ago discovering that Bluetooth aptX sounded that good. Further evaluation revealed the same flaws as the Mk1, the resolution and timber of vocals and instruments are lacking, as a result it's just not as resolving and realistic as many BA iems I own. I do not know if this is a 'DD' sound or is it unique to AKT8iE, but I don't like it, especially at this price. The bass does move a lot of air, I'd give it that, and things sound more 'chaotic and live' than 'refined and control'. Plus the QC issues are really scary, and I have had terrible experiences with AK and their original Layla  (RMA 3 times). 

 
I think what you heard from the T8iE is exactly why many people (including myself) love it so much. Most of us probably already have a good multi-BA IEM already, and want something more relaxed and moves a lot of air, like a pair of large dynamic headphones/speakers.
 
There are two different aspects to the goodness of appreciating music. One is to hear the resolution and timbre of individual instruments, which is what I love about BA IEMs. On the other hand, something I find hard to accomplish with BA IEMs is the large scale acoustic realism of live opera recordings or classical orchestra consisting of 70+ performers in a hugely acoustic hall, where individual timbre doesn't matter so much, but the whole acoustic presentation must be realistic and spacious, and often a bit chaotic.

It's like going to an opera or a symphony concert, where BA IEM is like sitting at the front row (or at the conductor's podium), while T8iE gives me the sensation of the "A Reserve" ticket seating, which is further back in the hall. You don't get as much vivid timbre or direct resolution when you sit there, but it presents the harmony and the environment beautifully.
 
Obviously it's best to have a bit of both (and many large headphones can sort of accomplish that), but with IEMs, it's hard to find a perfect solution, so T8iE for me is just one of the two extremes.
 
I found the new Layla Universal the other extreme, and I really want to buy it as well, but it's too expensive for me...

 

[raypin]

   
I've also done a direct comparison of my Mk1 with the new Mk2, and there were some noticeable differences.
 
I've owned the Mk1 since launch last year, but the unit I have is a third unit I received in replacement a couple of months ago, so it is only burnt in as much.
 
Overall sound stage and presentation felt similar, but Mk2 felt a little brighter and engaging, compared to Mk1 which is fairly deep and relaxed.
To be honest, I really couldn't say that the Mk2 is a far better improvement over the Mk1. Some may like one over the other but I still preferred the Mk1.
This may simply be my mind justifying my ownership of Mk1, but usually I get excited about new model launches, yet I didn't feel that vibe this time.
 
One thing that concerned me a little was that the sound (particularly the high-mids) felt uneasy and nervous. Maybe the attempt to get rid of the original Mk1 complaint of too thick and bassy sound has lead to the Mk2 being tuned this way. (maybe it goes away with burn-in but it was quite noticeable).
 
One funny thing to test is to simply have the left ear with Mk1 and right ear with Mk2, and listen to a monaural track. The difference is quite obvious, though you have to be careful because the two models look identical in appearance so you can never tell them apart visually if they are mixed up.
 
The character I described above is with using the same cable (the Mk2 cable) on both Mk1 and Mk2. I also tried my ALO Tinsel but felt the same tendencies.
The new cable felt better than the old Mk1 cable. It does avoid the bass boom and generally keep the sound tight. I still prefer using my ALO Tinsel since it gives a clearer presentation, though it does sound restrictive in dynamics at times. I think the Mk2 cable is a good all-round compromise solution.
 
Anyhow, I didn't feel an urgent need to chuck out my Mk1 and replace it with the Mk2... thankfully.
 
 

mmm.....thanks for the impressions. Something to think about. I think it is a mistake not to label or mark the MK IIs differently from the orig. specially if you have both models. How would one know which to sell and how would a buyer know (specially in the secondary or resale market) if it is the original version or the MK IIs? Are the boxes the same too? No markings or labels? It is an obvious mistake.

 

[PrinceOfEgypt]

I demoed the Mk2 yesterday again and unfortunately found it disappointing this time around, maybe I was too over the moon few days ago discovering that Bluetooth aptX sounded that good. Further evaluation revealed the same flaws as the Mk1, the resolution and timber of vocals and instruments are lacking, as a result it's just not as resolving and realistic as many BA iems I own. I do not know if this is a 'DD' sound or is it unique to AKT8iE, but I don't like it, especially at this price. The bass does move a lot of air, I'd give it that, and things sound more 'chaotic and live' than 'refined and control'. Plus the QC issues are really scary, and I have had terrible experiences with AK and their original Layla  (RMA 3 times). 

What other iems do you have?

 

[headwhacker]

  I demoed the Mk2 yesterday again and unfortunately found it disappointing this time around, maybe I was too over the moon few days ago discovering that Bluetooth aptX sounded that good. Further evaluation revealed the same flaws as the Mk1, the resolution and timber of vocals and instruments are lacking, as a result it's just not as resolving and realistic as many BA iems I own. I do not know if this is a 'DD' sound or is it unique to AKT8iE, but I don't like it, especially at this price. The bass does move a lot of air, I'd give it that, and things sound more 'chaotic and live' than 'refined and control'. Plus the QC issues are really scary, and I have had terrible experiences with AK and their original Layla  (RMA 3 times). 

 
After listening to speakers and headphones, I found BA's to be unnatural in general. Yes the resolution and clarity is stunning especially when hearing it the first time. It gives you a very clear image of individual instruments/elements in the music and the spaces in between. I had jaw-dropping moments first time I listen to H-200 and later on the JH-16/Roxanne.
 
However, I recently realized this is not musically enjoyable.I feels like the music has lost it's soul. I tend to listen to individual elements of the music and not the music as a whole.
 
The T8IE may feel congested compared to usual BA IEMs but imo, it is the natural presentation of the music. I can still perceive individual elements of the music but there's no gaps in between that makes it easier for me to see the clear picture(music) as a whole. And I find this more enjoyable especially for long hours of listening (5 hours or longer). 

 

[prismstorm]

   
I think what you heard from the T8iE is exactly why many people (including myself) love it so much. Most of us probably already have a good multi-BA IEM already, and want something more relaxed and moves a lot of air, like a pair of large dynamic headphones/speakers.
 
There are two different aspects to the goodness of appreciating music. One is to hear the resolution and timbre of individual instruments, which is what I love about BA IEMs. On the other hand, something I find hard to accomplish with BA IEMs is the large scale acoustic realism of live opera recordings or classical orchestra consisting of 70+ performers in a hugely acoustic hall, where individual timbre doesn't matter so much, but the whole acoustic presentation must be realistic and spacious, and often a bit chaotic.

It's like going to an opera or a symphony concert, where BA IEM is like sitting at the front row (or at the conductor's podium), while T8iE gives me the sensation of the "A Reserve" ticket seating, which is further back in the hall. You don't get as much vivid timbre or direct resolution when you sit there, but it presents the harmony and the environment beautifully.
 
Obviously it's best to have a bit of both (and many large headphones can sort of accomplish that), but with IEMs, it's hard to find a perfect solution, so T8iE for me is just one of the two extremes.
 
I found the new Layla Universal the other extreme, and I really want to buy it as well, but it's too expensive for me...

I guess I just don't find unrealistic timbre and a lack of resolution acceptable at TOTL level of iems, and it sounds like this is a characteristic of dynamic drivers technology and they will always sound 'live' and warm and fuzzy. Cymbals with the T8iE were smeared, and sounded very fake, vocals lack body and thus the whole experience was very unemotional. 
 
The Layla is warm, thick, full and overwhelmingly so too. The soundstage is enormous and you sometimes wonder whether it is artificially created. Vocals are almost way too full-bodied and textured, are you sure you would like such a sound?
 

What other iems do you have?

I have Westone 4R, Shure SE846, JH Layla, and a K10 on the way, definitely in the BA camp. My signature and community profile lists all the gear I own. 
 

   
After listening to speakers and headphones, I found BA's to be unnatural in general. Yes the resolution and clarity is stunning especially when hearing it the first time. It gives you a very clear image of individual instruments/elements in the music and the spaces in between. I had jaw-dropping moments first time I listen to H-200 and later on the JH-16/Roxanne.
 
However, I recently realized this is not musically enjoyable.I feels like the music has lost it's soul. I tend to listen to individual elements of the music and not the music as a whole.
 
The T8IE may feel congested compared to usual BA IEMs but imo, it is the natural presentation of the music. I can still perceive individual elements of the music but there's no gaps in between that makes it easier for me to see the clear picture(music) as a whole. And I find this more enjoyable especially for long hours of listening (5 hours or longer). 

The 'integrated whole' thing has been touted by AK on their website too, saying how the single 11mm driver producing all the frequency ranges will be really coherent compared to a multi-driver system. However I feel that with the maturity and level of multi-balanced armature iems in the market today, coherency is no longer an issue. Layla, K10, Empire Ears Zeus, Campfire Andromeda all sound very coherent while maintaining superior resolution, realism and calrity. 

 

[Kunlun]

Dynamic drivers tend to be better and often much better at timbre than multi-ba designs. Could you specify what you mean by "unrealistic timbre" in this case?

 

[Orky261]

I tried several IEMs from QDC, Fitear, AAW and other multi BA sandwich in order to find replacement for the T8ie and I just can't get into BA sound. The only IEM that made me think of getting it is the Kumitate Lab Trio which is a hybrid of 1 DD + 2 BA. I guess I'm at the mercy of bigger manufacturers to innovate using pure DD setup only. Thanks A&K for taking your sweet time for RMA.

 

[vladzakhar]

Bought the Westone BT cable and hooked it up to my AK T8iE playing through ZX2 DAP. I like what I hear a lot. Sound is very much like if  it is wired.

 

[prismstorm]

  Bought the Westone BT cable and hooked it up to my AK T8iE playing through ZX2 DAP. I like what I hear a lot. Sound is very much like if  it is wired.

is that the mk1 or the mk2, i'm on the edge about buying this combo or not, i was impressed by it days ago but as I found the resolution a bit wanting. I tried the MkII yesterday again and it was really enjoyable with rock / metal. The durability and QC issues and the price is what's holding me back now.
 
But yes, seriously, this combo is the lightest, most comfortable portable / bluetooth setup I've worn, plus unlike most bluetooth headphones it has semi-TOTL sound... 

 

[audionewbi]

I went to collect my supposed mk2 model today. Got there and the sale guy was trying to convince me the unit I got is the second generation. After few moment of no so pleasant talk he agreed he is wrong and they will ship the proper model to my house which is what I wanted.
It is just keep getting worst.