Indeed. Iriver created the brand Astell & Kern to go upmarket where the margins are. They have been downmarket already and moving river as a brand up is very hard. Moving a mass market brand up is much harder than expanding from luxury to more affordable. Ask VW and Mercedes...
Exactly. AK is ultra smart here - they build a "super luxury DAP (AK240)" and made people think they only make expensive stuff, then BOOM, now they make an "affordable" version. This is the successful down market sales tactic which European car makers have successfully leveraged in the past decade. That's how Mercedes, BMW and Porsche make their money now. And that's also why Toyota made Lexus so they distance themselves from "cheap", because once you associate your brand with "cheap", or worse - "same stuff but cheaper than your main competitors", going up market is next to impossible and you find yourself in a downward spiral in chasing more and more marketshare to make up for the thinner margins per device, this is why all these mobile phone and PC makers are having such a tough time now, and why business wish they don't get into such situations.
Exactly. AK is ultra smart here - they build a "super luxury DAP (AK240)" and made people think they only make expensive stuff, then BOOM, now they make an "affordable" version. This is the successful down market sales tactic which European car makers have successfully leveraged in the past decade. That's how Mercedes, BMW and Porsche make their money now. And that's also why Toyota made Lexus so they distance themselves from "cheap", because once you associate your brand with "cheap", or worse - "same stuff but cheaper than your main competitors", going up market is next to impossible and you find yourself in a downward spiral in chasing more and more marketshare to make up for the thinner margins per device, this is why all these mobile phone and PC makers are having such a tough time now, and why business wish they don't get into such situations.
Maybe - with the hardcore guys on head-fi. But I have the feeling that they have a large consumer base that is not on head-fi (Japan, China, Russia as examples) that are a large market for their players - who might not care. But then will they buy a "Junior" device...hmmmmm....
But you are right, the competition on the more affordable end of DAPs is tougher for sure. But that's when brand image and promise etc. comes into play. The wish of having a Astell & Kern DAP, even if it's their entry level device, can be quite powerful.
Exactly. AK is ultra smart here - they build a "super luxury DAP (AK240)" and made people think they only make expensive stuff, then BOOM, now they make an "affordable" version. This is the successful down market sales tactic which European car makers have successfully leveraged in the past decade. That's how Mercedes, BMW and Porsche make their money now. And that's also why Toyota made Lexus so they distance themselves from "cheap", because once you associate your brand with "cheap", or worse - "same stuff but cheaper than your main competitors", going up market is next to impossible and you find yourself in a downward spiral in chasing more and more marketshare to make up for the thinner margins per device, this is why all these mobile phone and PC makers are having such a tough time now, and why business wish they don't get into such situations.
100% agree. When VW introduced the Phaeton and the amazing factory in Dresden where it's build - it was beating the S-Class, A8 and 7 series BMW or at least on par with them. But it wasn't a real sales success. VW as a brand is not in that league yet (like Toyota, hence Lexus) so their efforts didn't yield the rewards they hoped for (yet) - but then the Bentley GT Continental shares the same platform and is a success. Take a look at what length they go through https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlIyDhss4Cg I have visited that factory a few years back and it is amazing.
Mercedes on the other hand went downmarket maintaining the luxury aspect of their cars while making an entry into the Mercedes "world" more and more affordable but always staying at the top end of the specific car spectrum. In each car spectrum you are always getting the "Mercedes" of compact cars, or small sedans etc. They went down to one of the smallest cars on sale, the Smart car.... with no negative effect on their brand image.
Porsche used to produce 20,000 cars a year in 1995 - now they sell 200,000 this year probably. Majority of the models will be model lines they didn't have back then. However, each Porsche car is the most sport car like in their respective class. A clear and focussed brand image and an exciting mix of tradition, principles, vision and technology.
BACK TO DAPS:
So for Fiio coming from the low end (price wise) it's an uphill battle, that they certainly can do but it's hard and takes time and consistent high quality. Thankfully the market is growing and new customers don't have the old pre-conceptions about a brand....and Fiio is actively cutting down on the cheap and cheerful products it had and focussing on the high quality items (still affordable).
Please - nothing some good old "audiophile" marketing couldn't fix. eg wlan causes electronic interference in such a small package thus degrades the SQ. We believe we are delivering the pure-est music listening experience, wlan "streaming" is low quality music etc.
I would bet an AK Jr that these sales pitch will come out in the publications.
Please - nothing some good old "audiophile" marketing couldn't fix. eg wlan causes electronic interference in such a small package thus degrades the SQ. We believe we are delivering the pure-est music listening experience, wlan "streaming" is low quality music etc.
I would bet an AK Jr that these sales pitch will come out in the publications.
Like it or not but streaming is the future, and Tidal/ Wimp offer high quality sound, A&K work with them but unfortunately reserved for their absolute top products
The Dac used in the JR is the same as in the AK 10 Dac/ headphone amp and the AK100 first edition. The FiiO X3k have the Dac of the AK 100II so I tend more to the FiiO who comes at a great price.
The Dac used in the JR is the same as in the AK 10 Dac/ headphone amp and the AK100 first edition. The FiiO X3k have the Dac of the AK 100II so I tend more to the FiiO who comes at a great price.
Yes, the Wolfs 8740 is in a gazillion devices - but that doesn't make it bad. It's and "old" DAC more than 10 years but hey = xduoo is using two of them in a $130 DAC/Amp... So, I don't know if I should be excited or sad. Anyhow, I still believe that it matters more how the DAC is implemented. Because the AK100 Mk2 (8740) and the original X3 (8740) didn't sound the same (if used as DACs only). Anyhow, I think they could have given us at least a dual config - just to feel more special....
The Dac used in the JR is the same as in the AK 10 Dac/ headphone amp and the AK100 first edition. The FiiO X3k have the Dac of the AK 100II so I tend more to the FiiO who comes at a great price.
Yes, the Wolfs 8740 is in a gazillion devices - but that doesn't make it bad. It's and "old" DAC more than 10 years but hey = xduoo is using two of them in a $130 DAC/Amp... So, I don't know if I should be excited or sad. Anyhow, I still believe that it matters more how the DAC is implemented. Because the AK100 Mk2 (8740) and the original X3 (8740) didn't sound the same (if used as DACs only). Anyhow, I think they could have given us at least a dual config - just to feel more special....
Like it or not but streaming is the future, and Tidal/ Wimp offer high quality sound, A&K work with them but unfortunately reserved for their absolute top products
Sure, but lot of people are still stuck on "streaming sucks, mp3 bad, FLAC good, WAV best" mentality (or something similar). Plus the market in general is pushing for Hi-res downloads this year (with plenty of help from record labels - as downloads makes more money than streaming for obvious reasons - again business aim for the highest margin, not market share with no margin!). The Jr is this year's product - not one released 3 years later, and that's going to be that.
Packing all left over AK100 in a new cloth is a good trick to get rid of the old stock.that is the same as what BMW does with the 1 series, who get the technical facilities of the "older" 3 serie.
Packing all left over AK100 in a new cloth is a good trick to get rid of the old stock.that is the same as what BMW does with the 1 series, who get the technical facilities of the "older" 3 serie.
Honestly guys, I don't know why you keep complaining. There's so many other offers, just go and buy what you like. I keep coming back to this thread hoping there's some new information, and I have to filter out all these opinions which are not helping anyone in any way. All our preferences are subjective, either for earphones, or for DAPs, just choose what you like instead of complaining about a product you don't want to use.
Honestly guys, I don't know why you keep complaining. There's so many other offers, just go and buy what you like. I keep coming back to this thread hoping there's some new information, and I have to filter out all these opinions which are not helping anyone in any way. All our preferences are subjective, either for earphones, or for DAPs, just choose what you like instead of complaining about a product you don't want to use.
We are free to critize no? I don´t complain, just said they will have a hard time because what is called "entry lvel" still means 600 Euro in Europe, a lot of Money for a downsized AK100, don´t get me wrong, the Player Looks fab and typical A&K, but we will have to see what FiiO offers with the X5k and X7.
well if we can not criticize then this is not a forum anymore, if u expect us just to hail everything i am sorry then this will not be a consumer forum.
we audiophiles got some experience of how daps would be valued for their specs, and ak's jr specs are not worth more 200 usd at most
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