[Boldakov]

what is it in uapp that you won’t find in native player or EQ ?

Absolutely all the stuff UAPP prividing))

I have SP2000 and under UAPP sound quality is way better, more analog sound than from the native player.

I have tried SP2000 vs SP3000 as a transport for my Hugo 2 and SP2000 with UAPP plays better than SP3000.

Also UAPP can run a UPnP renderer, so it could be endpoint not only for Roon, but for Audirvana also..

And there are lots of other stuff, but the main thing is sound quality. If only it would be possible to use UAPP on SP3000 — I will buy it immediately!
But suddenly I stucked on SP2000, as it can run UAPP instead of SP3000.

 

[rlw6534]

Absolutely all the stuff UAPP prividing))

I have SP2000 and under UAPP sound quality is way better, more analog sound than from the native player.

I have tried SP2000 vs SP3000 as a transport for my Hugo 2 and SP2000 with UAPP plays better than SP3000.

Also UAPP can run a UPnP renderer, so it could be endpoint not only for Roon, but for Audirvana also..

And there are lots of other stuff, but the main thing is sound quality. If only it would be possible to use UAPP on SP3000 — I will buy it immediately!
But suddenly I stucked on SP2000, as it can run UAPP instead of SP3000.

How did you install UAPP on SP2000?

 

[Utah dude]

Listened to the wonderful review that @GoldenOne did on SP3000 and was wondering how the increasing distortion at higher volumes (above 100) affects when using the SP3000 with an external amp. Is setting the DAP to line out like having the Volume at max or does the output voltage setting act in a similar fashion ( more distortion when set to 4V balanced rather than 2.5 or 2 V)?
Would love any thoughts or experiences from anyone.

 

[FooFighter]

Listened to the wonderful review that @GoldenOne did on SP3000 and was wondering how the increasing distortion at higher volumes (above 100) affects when using the SP3000 with an external amp. Is setting the DAP to line out like having the Volume at max or does the output voltage setting act in a similar fashion ( more distortion when set to 4V balanced rather than 2.5 or 2 V)?
Would love any thoughts or experiences from anyone.

LO is made to run without distortion.
Just listening with 4V out of Brise Tsuranagi but have also used Cayin C9 or my full size Ferrum Oor without issues

 

[Boldakov]

How did you install UAPP on SP2000?

Throught the VirtualAppEx
You can write me a message — I will give you an apk files

 

[GoldenSound]

LO is made to run without distortion.
Just listening with 4V out of Brise Tsuranagi but have also used Cayin C9 or my full size Ferrum Oor without issues

LO still has the same distortion vs level behaviour

 

[GoldenSound]

Listened to the wonderful review that @GoldenOne did on SP3000 and was wondering how the increasing distortion at higher volumes (above 100) affects when using the SP3000 with an external amp. Is setting the DAP to line out like having the Volume at max or does the output voltage setting act in a similar fashion ( more distortion when set to 4V balanced rather than 2.5 or 2 V)?
Would love any thoughts or experiences from anyone.

Line out mode still has the same distortion vs level performance.

Generally my advice when using it as a DAC would just be to set the volume between 80 and 100 rather than max

 

[Utah dude]

Line out mode still has the same distortion vs level performance.

Generally my advice when using it as a DAC would just be to set the volume between 80 and 100 rather than max

Thank you. Greatly appreciate your response.

 

[FooFighter]

Line out mode still has the same distortion vs level performance.

Generally my advice when using it as a DAC would just be to set the volume between 80 and 100 rather than max

Hi
I am usually using 2V line out mode but set it to 4V for testing purpose after that questioning was raised as I was really wondering why a manufacturer like Astell &Kern should implement LO which is causing such effect while other DAPs don't?
Of course I didn't have testing equipment but my own ears.
In how far is that distortion audible or only measurable with sensitive equipment?

Shouldn't be 2V equivalent to something in the distortion free volume range you mentioned?

Last question, as it's variable Voltage we re talking effectively about double amping when connecting an amp afterwards, right even if some would call it pre-amp?
Have you encountered other DAPs to distort at max LO (thinking about various DAPs like all Shanlings which don't have direct LO) respectively would you say that max output voltage is hard to implement without direct LO implementation anyway?
Thx

 

[denis1976]

LO still has the same distortion vs level behaviour

Please clarify me , the sp3000 has 0.2 w of power or i miss understand? ,and the specs says 6.3vrms of output but if the headphone needs more than 1 volt forget it....this is got to do with the no load specs?

 

[subguy812]

On the SP3000, there is LO option where you can adjust the volume on the DAP as well as the amp you are using. With Mass Kobo 475, I found 90 to be a sweet spot on the DAP, and using the amp for volume control. If you push the LO button on the screen it switches to a fixed LO with the V you have setup in the settings. It is really important that you check with the amp manufacturer for their recommended V setting. For example, on the 475 2.5V is the correct setting.

 

[FooFighter]

No question there are different recommended input voltage settings also in the Desktop world.
That's not new to me.
Am more interested in the distortion topic of Sp3k.
Was it meant that Sp3k max voltage can be hot as input for some amps or as I understood it from @GoldenOne that Sp3k is distorting at higher volumes no matter if PO or LO mode

 

[GoldenSound]

I am usually using 2V line out mode but set it to 4V for testing purpose after that questioning was raised as I was really wondering why a manufacturer like Astell &Kern should implement LO which is causing such effect while other DAPs don't?

Other manufacturers might also show a similar behaviour, I've not measured other DAPs with the same chips etc yet so not too much to compare to just yet.

In how far is that distortion audible or only measurable with sensitive equipment?

That's up for debate

Shouldn't be 2V equivalent to something in the distortion free volume range you mentioned?

Not quite no. Below is a graph from L7 Audiolab's measurements of the SP3000 just in case anyone is worried it was just my unit:

As you can see there is a sudden hump/jump in distortion starting at about 200mV. So stuff above that will have relatively higher distortion.

Last question, as it's variable Voltage we re talking effectively about double amping when connecting an amp afterwards, right even if some would call it pre-amp?
Have you encountered other DAPs to distort at max LO (thinking about various DAPs like all Shanlings which don't have direct LO) respectively would you say that max output voltage is hard to implement without direct LO implementation anyway?

Not necessarily no. But it depends.
Dedicated DACs tend to have a fairly linear distortion vs level behaviour in most instances. But they also are designed with the intent of feeding an amp, so the design doesn't need to worry about keeping output impedance down or being able to supply any meaningful current. They can just focus on being as linear as possible.

DAPs however have the challenge that as well as needing to be able to provide a DAC line out they are primarily intended for driving a real load, so they need to have low output impedance and some actual current capability and this can sometimes limit their performance vs a dedicated DAC.

Usually though on amplifiers we see a slow/gradual rise in distortion from a certain level, not a sudden 'jump' like this. So I'd imagine this actually has something more to do with the DAC itself.

Please clarify me , the sp3000 has 0.2 w of power or i miss understand? ,and the specs says 6.3vrms of output but if the headphone needs more than 1 volt forget it....this is got to do with the no load specs?

That's correct. With a 'standard' 32 Ohm load the SP3000 can output upto 0.2W before hitting 1% THD:

With a 300 Ohm load (or higher, such as using it as a standalone DAC) it was able to output about 11V, albeit with high distortion.

On the SP3000, there is LO option where you can adjust the volume on the DAP as well as the amp you are using. With Mass Kobo 475, I found 90 to be a sweet spot on the DAP, and using the amp for volume control. If you push the LO button on the screen it switches to a fixed LO with the V you have setup in the settings. It is really important that you check with the amp manufacturer for their recommended V setting. For example, on the 475 2.5V is the correct setting.

Definitely worth checking though in MOST cases, solid state amps don't tend to fuss much over input level. As long as you're not clipping the input stage you're fine.
It's mostly tube amps where things start to get quite different.

I understood it from @GoldenOne that Sp3k is distorting at higher volumes no matter if PO or LO mode

Correct.
PO vs LO mode isn't changing any circuitry or how the hardware itself is doing anything, it's essentially just a UI change

 

[FooFighter]

Thx @GoldenOne
I have to admit that I am personally a bit shocked about the fact that a 3+ k DAP is distorting in the last 3rd or even more part of its volume range?
Though I am using 99% only IEMs which shouldn't reach that level or attach head amps that can be run with the recommended input voltage for driving Planars which otherwise reach that threshold, I find these findings honestly very bad for Astell &Kerns reputation.

GoldenOne, it would really be super interesting if you could examine more DAPs in future as I feel a bit tricked as a customer getting a product with a reduced usable volume range.

On the other hand of course the question is how that distortion is showing up for our ears in real life

 

[phiemon]

Thx @GoldenOne
I have to admit that I am personally a bit shocked about the fact that a 3+ k DAP is distorting in the last 3rd or even more part of its volume range?
Though I am using 99% only IEMs which shouldn't reach that level or attach head amps that can be run with the recommended input voltage for driving Planars which otherwise reach that threshold, I find these findings honestly very bad for Astell &Kerns reputation.

GoldenOne, it would really be super interesting if you could examine more DAPs in future as I feel a bit tricked as a customer getting a product with a reduced usable volume range.

On the other hand of course the question is how that distortion is showing up for our ears in real life

@GoldenOne

+1 for these requests!

Also, I would be very interested to know which DAP you personally have or would recommend as far as audio quality is concerned.