Astell&Kern A&futura SE180 - The First Modular DAP from Astell&Kern

[orifiel]

Hi @JasonNYC !!

i have preordered the SE180 in https://us.astellnkern.com/
When you start the shipping of the preorder??
Or the release date was delayed?

 

[ThanatosVI]

Are there any limitations of the 2.4Ghz WiFi? It seems the SE180's competition all can do 5Ghz. I assume the wireless data transfer would be the superior way to move files, but as far as streaming goes, can the 2.4Ghz keep up?

Don't worry 2.4Ghz WiFi is more than sufficient
The 5Ghz network offers no further upside to Audio reproduction.

So it isn't a bottleneck like Bluetooth for instance

 

[JasonNYC]

One last thing. Can the SE180 be used as a USB DAC, meaning can I use my laptop as the starting source to the SE180 via USB-C? I know the SR25 can do that so I figure it might be able to also.

Yes, the SE180 can be used as a USB DAC.

 

[JasonNYC]

Hi @JasonNYC !!

i have preordered the SE180 in https://us.astellnkern.com/
When you start the shipping of the preorder??
Or the release date was delayed?

Availability date was delayed one week to Friday, May 28th. Pre-orders should start shipping early next week.

 

[JasonNYC]

Hi @JasonNYC !!

i have preordered the SE180 in https://us.astellnkern.com/
When you start the shipping of the preorder??
Or the release date was delayed?

Sorry, I was incorrect. Pre-orders start shipping today. If you pre-ordered from the AK US site, you should receive tracking info later today.

Please note, the AKM SEM2 module has now been delayed to July 16th in North America. It will be around that same date worldwide.

 

[orifiel]

Sorry, I was incorrect. Pre-orders start shipping today. If you pre-ordered from the AK US site, you should receive tracking info later today.

Please note, the AKM SEM2 module has now been delayed to July 16th in North America. It will be around that same date worldwide.

excellent!!
i preorder everything relative to SE180, i’m waiting for the shipping of the player and the leather case

regards

 

[Nace]

Don't worry 2.4Ghz WiFi is more than sufficient
The 5Ghz network offers no further upside to Audio reproduction.

So it isn't a bottleneck like Bluetooth for instance

No argument there; what I meant was the download speeds of 2.4Ghz can potentially be a fair bit slower than that of 5Ghz. To my understanding, while 2.4Ghz WiFi can be used at a greater range, download speeds with 5Ghz can be much higher. My concern is whether or not 2.4Ghz would be sufficient for streaming Qobuz for instance, ex. quick load times, no buffering, etc.

Would you mind explaining the bottleneck effect? It's rather unclear when I look it up. Thanks!

 

[ThanatosVI]

No argument there; what I meant was the download speeds of 2.4Ghz can potentially be a fair bit slower than that of 5Ghz. To my understanding, while 2.4Ghz WiFi can be used at a greater range, download speeds with 5Ghz can be much higher. My concern is whether or not 2.4Ghz would be sufficient for streaming Qobuz for instance, ex. quick load times, no buffering, etc.

Would you mind explaining the bottleneck effect? It's rather unclear when I look it up. Thanks!

2.4Ghz speed is fine for even 4k Video streaming.
My whole home network is still 2.4Ghz and we can watch several HD streams at once.
I'm not sure if 5Ghz has higher bandwith but 2.4Ghz has already 54Mbit/s.
This actually designates the frequency Band that it used for Transmission.
5Ghz is less prone to interference while 2.4Ghz has bigger range iirc.

The bottleneck with Bluetooth is, that the speed is limited to ~936kbit/s while CD quality is ~1400kbit/s.
That means you can't stream Realtime lossless via Bluetooth.

 

[Nace]

2.4Ghz speed is fine for even 4k Video streaming.
My whole home network is still 2.4Ghz and we can watch several HD streams at once.
I'm not sure if 5Ghz has higher bandwith but 2.4Ghz has already 54Mbit/s.
This actually designates the frequency Band that it used for Transmission.
5Ghz is less prone to interference while 2.4Ghz has bigger range iirc.

The bottleneck with Bluetooth is, that the speed is limited to ~936kbit/s while CD quality is ~1400kbit/s.
That means you can't stream Realtime lossless via Bluetooth.

Well I certainly exposed myself with lack of knowledge of WiFi lol! Thanks for taking the time to explain that! Sounds like that shouldn't be a concern.

As for the Bluetooth, on the SE180's spec sheet it says it has Bluetooth V5.0 (A2DP, AVRCP, Qualcomm® aptXTM HD, LDAC). I found multiple sources that say Bluetooth 5.0's data transfer cap is 2000kbit/s... is that a wrong assessment? It still would be no good for streaming anything above that like most 24bit files, but at least it could do 16/44.1?

My main thing here is that I am wondering if I can use the BT Sync to stream off of WiFi with the help of my phone. Since JasonNYC said it could be used as a USB DAC, couldn't I just plug my phone into it via USB-C just like any dac/amp? Thanks for your info!

 

[ThanatosVI]

Well I certainly exposed myself with lack of knowledge of WiFi lol! Thanks for taking the time to explain that! Sounds like that shouldn't be a concern.

As for the Bluetooth, on the SE180's spec sheet it says it has Bluetooth V5.0 (A2DP, AVRCP, Qualcomm® aptXTM HD, LDAC). I found multiple sources that say Bluetooth 5.0's data transfer cap is 2000kbit/s... is that a wrong assessment? It still would be no good for streaming anything above that like most 24bit files, but at least it could do 16/44.1?

My main thing here is that I am wondering if I can use the BT Sync to stream off of WiFi with the help of my phone. Since JasonNYC said it could be used as a USB DAC, couldn't I just plug my phone into it via USB-C just like any dac/amp? Thanks for your info!

I actually googled it again to not spread any misinformation.
Bluetooth 5.0 might have a data Transfer of 2000kbit/s for when you want to Transfer files.(actually die not confirm this info)
However for music streaming you need a Bluetooth audio Codec. The fastest at the Moment is LDAC with 990kbit/s

This means we are one step closer and "only" need a better audio codec.

I am a little confused to what your use case is.
Maybe you describe what you want to achieve and it is easier to evaluate that way if the Se180 is capable of doing it.

 

[Nace]

I actually googled it again to not spread any misinformation.
Bluetooth 5.0 might have a data Transfer of 2000kbit/s for when you want to Transfer files.(actually die not confirm this info)
However for music streaming you need a Bluetooth audio Codec. The fastest at the Moment is LDAC with 990kbit/s

This means we are one step closer and "only" need a better audio codec.

I am a little confused to what your use case is.
Maybe you describe what you want to achieve and it is easier to evaluate that way if the Se180 is capable of doing it.

Thanks for clarifying the role of a BT audio codec for me... just a matter of time before it'll be possible to send lossless files over BT!

Awesome, let me try to describe my desired use of the SE180 as best as I can. The SE180 cannot stream music unless connected to WiFi, but my Samsung can. I have used USB Audio Player Pro and an iFi black label to stream lossless files on the go from my phone. I am wondering if I could use the SE180 in the same manner as I was the iFi, as an On The Go USB DAC... Smartphone with UAPP --> male-to-male USB-C --> SE180 --> Monitors/headphones?

My goal is to be able to stream lossless audio anywhere I can use 4G on my smartphone but with my SE180 as the connected source if that makes sense.

Either way I assume I can just download my music on Tidal and Qobuz to the SE180 storage and not have to only download local files, right?

 

[ThanatosVI]

Thanks for clarifying the role of a BT audio codec for me... just a matter of time before it'll be possible to send lossless files over BT!

Awesome, let me try to describe my desired use of the SE180 as best as I can. The SE180 cannot stream music unless connected to WiFi, but my Samsung can. I have used USB Audio Player Pro and an iFi black label to stream lossless files on the go from my phone. I am wondering if I could use the SE180 in the same manner as I was the iFi, as an On The Go USB DAC... Smartphone with UAPP --> male-to-male USB-C --> SE180 --> Monitors/headphones?

My goal is to be able to stream lossless audio anywhere I can use 4G on my smartphone but with my SE180 as the connected source if that makes sense.

Either way I assume I can just download my music on Tidal and Qobuz to the SE180 storage and not have to only download local files, right?

Ok so your problem is that the Se180 has no Mobile Internet, but your phone does?
Imo the easiest solution is to open a mobile Hotspot on your phone and let the Se180 connect to it.
Doesn't even need a cable.

However the UAPP on the phone with an USB cable into the SE180 will also work

 

[Nace]

Ok so your problem is that the Se180 has no Mobile Internet, but your phone does?
Imo the easiest solution is to open a mobile Hotspot on your phone and let the Se180 connect to it.
Doesn't even need a cable.

However the UAPP on the phone with an USB cable into the SE180 will also work

Totally cleared it up for me, thanks so much! SE180 seems to be the perfect DAP for me. I can't find any authorized dealers in Southern California that will carry it, let alone for a demo, so I'll be patiently waiting for reviews before I pull the trigger.

 

[twister6]

For those who are interested, I just posted my SE180 review, including both SEM1 and SEM2 modules. Enjoy the read!

 

[cj3209]

For those who are interested, I just posted my SE180 review, including both SEM1 and SEM2 modules. Enjoy the read!

Nice review! Enjoyed it. Sounds like these newer DAPs are getting to the point where they all sound similar but with differences depending on which headphones/IEMs you pair them with and perhaps with the type of music one listens to.