[manaox2]

Another snake oil find to me.

CD Mastering - The Digital Myth

If a CD-R cannot be read properly, its audible and while I definitely believe some types of CD-Rs are more reliable, I would blame the player. Its ridiculous to me that it could possibly take the edge off of the sound or sound like a different mix of the same music. It reminds me of the special Japan releases where they supposedly use better construction materials. If thats the case, I will rip it bit perfect to play off the pc or reburn if I had to, but it seems silly to claim a large difference.

 

[moogoob]

If there is an audible difference I'd put the burn software at blame. Maybe there's re-encoding going on?

 

[leeperry]

I like the part where hard drives have different SQ

 

[aristos_achaion]

Wow...snake oil if I ever saw it. He doesn't seem to really document any of the setups he's using for these things, if I'm not mistaken...recreating his experiments would be next to impossible. I'm blaming software too...he seems to largely ignore the software in creating digital music.

Also, he seems dead-set on these things making some kind of difference...could he just be hearing what he wants to hear? There's often a confirmation bias with these things.

 

[Nebby]

Quote:

Two other engineers (in session with me) heard the sound change when we raised the client's computer off the floor with soft isolation pads. The only thing that changed was what the computer was sitting on. We found that setting the computer on a hardwood floor made the sound more immediate and crisp, compared with setting it on soft isolators. On the floor, the snare sounded punchier, the kick more immediate, and the overall sound was tighter. A solid platform is even better when vibration isolators are used - and you'll be amazed at the difference a great power cable makes too.

So I wonder if they'll experience the same results with a SSD?

 

[leeperry]

right! I missed that part

so Patrick82 was right all along!!!

 

[PeeeMeS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by leeperry /img/forum/go_quote.gif right! I missed that part so Patrick82 was right all along!!!

Patrick82 did a 180 and now claims that the best setup is one without expensive cables/dac/amp

Laptop -> Emu 0404 USB -> T-Amp -> K1000
is his preferred setup now

 

[Uncle Erik]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nebby /img/forum/go_quote.gif So I wonder if they'll experience the same results with a SSD?

I also heard that he's very close to being able to turn lead into gold.

The credulity in this hobby will be its downfall. Stereos used to be a person's third largest investment, behind a house and a car. You'll notice that sales started slipping as the snakeoil became more pronounced in the hobby. Such a shame - everyone loves a good setup, but magical thinking alienates a lot of people.

 

[JaZZ]

To me the article makes sense. I just don't know if it represents the truth or is a vast exaggeration or even based on placebo effect. But as I see it, there's no reason to categorize it under «snake oil» (a beloved procedure on Head-Fi).

I haven't heard sonic differences among CDRs, but I haven't tried many, and if so, I haven't paid attention to possible differences. I almost exclusively listen to CDRs (burned from my own originals!) and have no complaints about their sound, so no reason to fiddle about them. All of them are TDK R80. I can't compare them to the originals, though, because they are crossfeeded.

That said, I don't exclude sonic differences to very sensitive ears. To my ears CD transports vary in sound, and the only imaginable cause is jitter. Considering that uneven pit forms can induce jitter, the logical consequence that they can cause sonic differences is not too esoteric.
.

 

[manaox2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaZZ /img/forum/go_quote.gif To me the article makes sense. I just don't know if it represents the truth or is a vast exaggeration or even based on placebo effect. But as I see it, there's no reason to categorize it under «snake oil» (a beloved procedure on Head-Fi). I haven't heard sonic differences among CDRs, but I haven't tried many, and if so, I haven't paid attention to possible differences. I almost exclusively listen to CDRs (burned from my own originals!) and have no complaints about their sound, so no reason to fiddle about them. All of them are TDK R80. I can't compare them to the originals, though, because they are crossfeeded. That said, I don't exclude sonic differences to very sensitive ears. To my ears CD transports vary in sound, and the only imaginable cause is jitter. Considering that uneven pit forms can induce jitter, the logical consequence that they can cause sonic differences is not too esoteric. .

Vibration control is important as well as the controller and drive mechanism, there are many reasons why you may hear differences in transports and jitter is also one of them in my book, but other aspects matter much much more in controlling jitter then the CD being used I would believe.

If its a bad burn or not one the laser works well with, it will need to apply more error correction which is very effective and extremely fast, but still I suppose possible that it may induce an extremely tiny amount of jitter. The average rate of data on a CD being read to the buffer does seem as if it would have to vary by a large amount which seems only likely if scratched or dirty or a controller/laser error intermittently occurs. I will agree that the burner being used, the CD-R quality, and the speed of the burn would make a difference in how easily the data is read and will possibly induce a very very minute amount of jitter if the average rate of data received varies. I just have a hard time believing that a decent transport could possibly have enough jitter inherently to make that unbearably small amount audible, especially to the degree he describes. It seems like it would impedance mismatching and/or a very cheap clock internally for the transport to have a problem getting any form of audible jitter from the CD to the buffer.

 

[Karura]

You should try marking the CD-Rs with a green marker. *rollseyes*

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by manaox2 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Vibration control is important as well as the controller and drive mechanism, there are many reasons why you may hear differences in transports and jitter is also one of them in my book. But as far as I know, CD-Rs should not induce jitter as the audio is buffered from the CD on most all modern transports, even the cheap ones (how skip protection works). If its a bad burn or not one the laser works well with, it will need to apply more error correction which is very effective and will not be noticed unless the buffer runs out before it can read enough data which usually indicates a dirty or scratched CD. While the burner being used, the CD-R quality, and the speed of the burn would make a difference in how easily the data is read, it should not be audible if it works properly enough that you don't hear skipping. A half decent transport should remove any of the effects he is describing coming from a CD-R I feel.

A Bel Canto DAC2 or a Benchark DAC1 are officially jitter-immune, nevertheless they show sonic differences with different transports. Now that doesn't directly speak for the jitter scenario, but the characteristic of the difference can't be caused by read errors or error correction: They don't manifest themselves primarily in sound quality, but in sound characteristic and sonic balance.

In my country Radiohead's «Hail to the Thief» was just available with a heavy copy protection. It took EAC several hours to rip it (in secure mode), the track quality was about 67%, but the sound was flawless. I'm not sure if that's an indication for the effect from real-world read errors, but I doubt that they are really relevant in the real world.
.

 

[manaox2]

I definitely agree that different transports sound differently and that jitter is there. As for different CD-R's creating that jitter, I'm not convinced.

 

[CodeToad]

The poor feller obviously has Uber-Anal Banality Syndrome.

 

[leeperry]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeeeMeS /img/forum/go_quote.gif Patrick82 did a 180 and now claims that the best setup is one without expensive cables/dac/amp Laptop -> Emu 0404 USB -> T-Amp -> K1000 is his preferred setup now

source? not on head-fi apparently?!