[purk]

   
Oooooh.... not if you stick one on a bench, lol. But the nouveau-iRiver stuff is out of control for sure. I was seriously looking at the latest Sony Android PMPs which are a way more sensible option, but none of these ever get timely Android updates so they become pretty worthless in a very short period of time if you want the full flexibility of an Android device. It's not like the HP outs are terrible on most phones now and of course there's always the OTG option (which I personally never use) so I'm happy to leave the new-gen-but-actually-kinda-similar-to-old-gen DAPs to those who feel they're getting something out of them.

Check out the Sony NW-ZX1.  It is pretty darn nice. The headphones output is not powerful enough for full-size cans but it is excellent for highend custom IEMs.  The Andriod on the ZX1 is pretty solidly done as well.  Don't buy the UK ones though as it may suffer from sound quality issues due to Euro dreadful volume cap.

 

[bangraman]

Yeah I just said why I probably won't buy it. The majority of the time my music is coming from something else, not a stored file (another reason why 'dumb' DAPs are dead to me now)... so the ability to keep up with the Android ecosystem for 2-3 years would be key if I bought an Android device. The problem with these PMP's is that the OS is ancient when they're released, and they usually don't get updates. That, and the fact that the sound isn't a giant leap over the better phones.

 

[heatofamatch]

  That, and the fact that the sound isn't a giant leap over the better phones.

 
thank you for telling it like it is.
 
Meanwhile I've been around the woods a couple of times myself, but am probably on the cusp of fading away yet again. I like to talk but too much talking always does my head in

 

[bangraman]

Well... not really, 'telling it like it is' as many well know is not necessarily a valid opinion in the view of the whole here and other related places... or in many other tech areas where subjectives, marketing and other intangibles are more important than objectives.
 
 
Many enthusiasts appear to be unable to abstract subjective enjoyment of an objectively picked system, but that's OK. Or maybe I'm the weirdo, I wouldn't be surprised.

 

[Duncan]

Well... not really, 'telling it like it is' as many well know is not necessarily a valid opinion in the view of the whole here and other related places... or in many other tech areas where subjectives, marketing and other intangibles are more important than objectives.


Many enthusiasts appear to be unable to abstract subjective enjoyment of an objectively picked system, but that's OK. Or maybe I'm the weirdo, I wouldn't be surprised.

To be fair, whilst never having had a Qualia, or an R10, I have had (and still have) the SA5000, MDR-PVR1 (or whatever it is called, the really odd looking one!), Z1000, EX1000, XBA4, XBA-H3, so several years of Sony's consumer grade TOTL product, and I believe them all to have a slightly odd colouration, a Sony house sound - that I'm not sure I get along with these days...

So, even ignoring fit, if the Qualia [as a prequel to all of the above] have that same house sound, then it wouldn't be for me anyway...

 

[etys rule]

Well, I guess you could call me an old-timer. Over 10 years I believe. And on Headwize before that. Nothing stays the same. I miss the old-timers.

 

[heatofamatch]

I remember Headwize and comments like (I paraphrase) "there's no way the E888 sounds 3x as good as the MX500"

 

[Duncan]

I remember Headwize and comments like (I paraphrase) "there's no way the E888 sounds 3x as good as the MX500" :etysmile:

Haha, I listened to my sole surviving pair of E888 a few weeks back (alongside MX400, E747, and Senn MX5) - all are by todays standards pretty dire - worst being the MX5, an abomination!

To think we used to crave these 'high end' earbuds...

 

[heatofamatch]

Haha, I listened to my sole surviving pair of E888 a few weeks back (alongside MX400, E747, and Senn MX5) - all are by todays standards pretty dire - worst being the MX5, an abomination!

To think we used to crave these 'high end' earbuds...

 
It's far easier to approach true audiophile (and not just gadgeteer) quality on the go with today's portables and headphones.

 
Kinda going off on a tangent, I scoff and flinch at my computer screen a lot, whenever people dig up just any old portable or old headphones, and give them classic status without discrimination, without any thought on how good they really are.
 
When my mum first got married she once spent a huge, probably criminal amount of the hubby's salary on a Denon stereo system, and then spent a fortune buying proper (non-pirated) vinyls. Today she wouldn't trade anything for youtube as the all-encompassing repository for all music. All the effort that goes into maintaining a turntable and scratch prevention is just a waste of life to her. She can't believe it's fashionable again.
 
Credit where credit's due, I believe...folks should learn to properly harness the tools and resources that are available today (which we didn't have before), not just using the web as a way to bitch and whine about how everyone's looking at their phones/tablets and supposedly not interacting with each other. It's usually just *you*, the complainer, that they just don't want to interact with. (end old person rant)

 

[bangraman]

  Well, I guess you could call me an old-timer. Over 10 years I believe. And on Headwize before that. Nothing stays the same. I miss the old-timers.

 
What I miss most (and am trying to find elsewhere, not in audio but in pretty much every area) is that when Google wasn't as just creepily good as it is now, it was a lot harder to find reviews to crib off so there was a point in the early Y2K's where you could be reasonably guaranteed that whomever you were discussing, arguing or flaming with owned whatever we were talking about and wasn't often basing their opinions on someone else's.
 
 
Now it's hard to separate the wheat from the chaff, opinion-wise. You can do the research in terms of how people's relative opinions drastically change between what they actually have and pretend to have when they appropriated their opinion from someone else who doesn't share a common viewpoint, but often doing the work is just too hard. And even in terms of professional reviews, add that to the mid-2000's disempowerment of those employed by the bigger publications who were actually journalists as opposed to grafting bloggers, and it's just usually become a game of who does viral marketing best, who's then further assisted by the amplification effect of forums. I doubt you'll have any of the active trade participants who were the biggest recipient of this gift complaining now.
 
 
On the other hand, back then there was a lot less in terms of objectivity because the equipment to enable this wasn't within the reach of most, so while everyone may have had what they were talking about, it was certainly the case that discussion often came down to a battle of egos.
 
 
On the other other hand, now while a lot of people can measure even if they don't have the level of stuff that I used to have until recently (and the guy who apparently has been banished for ever / Hertsens have), most don't appear to know how to control, and the majority of the people reading don't know how to interpret the figures beyond whatever perception skew the author might have placed on it... The Infographic Problem, making subjectivity seem like objectivity which in many ways is worse because you have something you can point at and say "See? This is true because I have figures'.
 
 
[...old guy grumbling continues]
 
 

 

[Insidious Meme]

What I miss most (and am trying to find elsewhere, not in audio but in pretty much every area) is that when Google wasn't as just creepily good as it is now, it was a lot harder to find reviews to crib off so there was a point in the early Y2K's where you could be reasonably guaranteed that whomever you were discussing, arguing or flaming with owned whatever we were talking about and wasn't often basing their opinions on someone else's.


Now it's hard to separate the wheat from the chaff, opinion-wise. You can do the research in terms of how people's relative opinions drastically change between what they actually have and pretend to have when they appropriated their opinion from someone else who doesn't share a common viewpoint, but often doing the work is just too hard. And even in terms of professional reviews, add that to the mid-2000's disempowerment of those employed by the bigger publications who were actually journalists as opposed to grafting bloggers, and it's just usually become a game of who does viral marketing best, who's then further assisted by the amplification effect of forums. I doubt you'll have any of the active trade participants who were the biggest recipient of this gift complaining now.


On the other hand, back then there was a lot less in terms of objectivity because the equipment to enable this wasn't within the reach of most, so while everyone may have had what they were talking about, it was certainly the case that discussion often came down to a battle of egos.


On the other other hand, now while a lot of people can measure even if they don't have the level of stuff that I used to have until recently (and the guy who apparently has been banished for ever / Hertsens have), most don't appear to know how to control, and the majority of the people reading don't know how to interpret the figures beyond whatever perception skew the author might have placed on it... The Infographic Problem, making subjectivity seem like objectivity which in many ways is worse because you have something you can point at and say "See? This is true because I have figures'.


[...old guy grumbling continues]

Tyll Hertsens and the banished guy (if it's who I think you're thinking of) have their own places to post measurements so don't really rely on this site as in the past.

 

[etys rule]

   
What I miss most (and am trying to find elsewhere, not in audio but in pretty much every area) is that when Google wasn't as just creepily good as it is now, it was a lot harder to find reviews to crib off so there was a point in the early Y2K's where you could be reasonably guaranteed that whomever you were discussing, arguing or flaming with owned whatever we were talking about and wasn't often basing their opinions on someone else's.
 
 
Now it's hard to separate the wheat from the chaff, opinion-wise. You can do the research in terms of how people's relative opinions drastically change between what they actually have and pretend to have when they appropriated their opinion from someone else who doesn't share a common viewpoint, but often doing the work is just too hard. And even in terms of professional reviews, add that to the mid-2000's disempowerment of those employed by the bigger publications who were actually journalists as opposed to grafting bloggers, and it's just usually become a game of who does viral marketing best, who's then further assisted by the amplification effect of forums. I doubt you'll have any of the active trade participants who were the biggest recipient of this gift complaining now.
 
 
On the other hand, back then there was a lot less in terms of objectivity because the equipment to enable this wasn't within the reach of most, so while everyone may have had what they were talking about, it was certainly the case that discussion often came down to a battle of egos.
 
 
On the other other hand, now while a lot of people can measure even if they don't have the level of stuff that I used to have until recently (and the guy who apparently has been banished for ever / Hertsens have), most don't appear to know how to control, and the majority of the people reading don't know how to interpret the figures beyond whatever perception skew the author might have placed on it... The Infographic Problem, making subjectivity seem like objectivity which in many ways is worse because you have something you can point at and say "See? This is true because I have figures'.
 
 
[...old guy grumbling continues]
 
 

Well, bangraman, please, tell us how you really feel You are spot on though. Journalistic integrity is nearly non-existent, especially within the last ten years or so. While I have never been a fan of the media to begin with, I can barely stomach them now. And in regard to reviewing gear, I have a few people who I listen to. The others are simply talking heads.

 

[bangraman]

 
Well, bangraman, please, tell us how you really feel You are spot on though. Journalistic integrity is nearly non-existent, especially within the last ten years or so. While I have never been a fan of the media to begin with, I can barely stomach them now. And in regard to reviewing gear, I have a few people who I listen to. The others are simply talking heads.

What I really hate about this current situation is that it's just handed power back to those who are best at selling.
 
 
We've got these guys now who head up the shiniest blogs which are undoubtedly influential, which are staffed by unexceptional people in their field who happen to write well and are good at getting noticed for one reason or another... the kind of people I used to deride as the 'lifestyle press' now also rule pretty much all elements of tech too. And the problem is that while they may have airs about being the new journalists, they're basically puppets for those who're expert marketeers because they're too self-absorbed.
 
 
The internet didn't free us from the flim-flam guys. It actually made them stronger. Which is kind of depressing.

 

[heatofamatch]

What's occurred to me recently is that perhaps people can't make good decisions by just having a lot of knowledge; they need the ability to discern. 

 

[Akabeth]

Quote:

Still alive over here, but still have a bum ear and tinnitus due to a inner ear infection a while back- no, not due to headphone listening! But yeah it makes audiophile-level listening a moot point.

 
Sorry to hear that and I hope you'll fix that ear completely! I'd probably be quite upset if this happened to me since I look for detail and precision regardless of available setup.
 
Quote:

  [post]
 

 
Aye, I find the viral marketing thing hideous.
 
Fortunately I didn't get to see too much of this happening with audio equipment. Here it's either you can hear it/fool yourself into hearing it, or you don't lol... and if that checkpoint fails, the wallet will account for it anyway. [With this in mind] I consider myself fortunate being able to hear good headphones (Ω2, R10, HE90, etc) in good setups while still in my teens (sharp ears).
 
Although I think consumerism and loss-of-objectivity is plainly a human thing; it'll still happen if the whole of the internet disappears today.
 
Just be honest and keep it real guys. Nice thread btw.