[rjoudrey]

I get no sound at all on my V30 when all are checked.

 

[WitzyZed]

Actually, don't worry about it. With this box checked all i got was a series of whistles screeches and high pitched noise. So i answered my own question ... (^_-)

I don’t have Q5 DAC/AMP, but on my player that has identical DAC chips, that option is required to be checked *shrug*

 

[artpiggo]

All to DSD confirmed working fine with DX200.

 

[bobbooo]

@Steve Guppy, if your output device supports DSD then with [DSD, DSD over PCM] + [All To DSD] Neutron will output DSD instead of PCM, e.g. your FLAC's PCM will go into PCM to DSD conversion routine before data is sent to DAC or OS (if OS exposes access to DSD, like on LG V30, V40).

As @WitzyZed correctly mentioned - DSD files will not be affected and will go through Neutron unmodified but FLAC's PCM will be converted to DSD prior output. This is what All To DSD was designed for.

Hi, I just bought Neutron Player, brilliant app, thanks. But I just tried the 'All to DSD' feature on my Samsung Galaxy S10e (G9700, Hong Kong Qualcomm/Snapdragon version, running the latest available Android 9 update), and it does not work - I just get static when tryng to play a 16-bit 44.1kHz flac file. Are there any other options I have to make sure are on/off in order for All to DSD to work? (Both 'All to DSD' and 'DSD, DSD over PCM (DoP)' are on.) The Snapdragon S10 series have the WCD9341 Qualcomm Aqstic audio codec, which does have native DSD (both DSD64 and DSD128) and DoP support, so it should work (see here: https://www.qualcomm.com/products/wcd9341).

 

[dmitrykos]

@bobbooo, even though hardware may be capable the access to DSD functionality must be provided by firmware too! Samsung does not expose anything related to DSD. On contrary LG exposes possibility to open DSD stream in V series of their devices, so Samsung has to do the same, otherwise - no chance. Neutron managed to obtain hi-res PCM on Galaxy S5+ series after a number of tests and failures but it is so far maximum what can be done.

 

[bobbooo]

@bobbooo, even though hardware may be capable the access to DSD functionality must be provided by firmware too! Samsung does not expose anything related to DSD. On contrary LG exposes possibility to open DSD stream in V series of their devices, so Samsung has to do the same, otherwise - no chance. Neutron managed to obtain hi-res PCM on Galaxy S5+ series after a number of tests and failures but it is so far maximum what can be done.

That's disappointing - I bought your app especially to use that advertised feature as I want the best quality using EQ and DSP. Have you contacted Samsung to ask if there's any chance they could open access to the DSD stream via a firmware update?

 

[dmitrykos]

@bobbooo I doubt Samsung will listen just because one application which can do it. Also not all hardware they use support DSD and their firmware is quite unified, so I am not sure that they even will consider it. You could use Audio Hardware -> Oversample feature (4x or 8x) and get very similar high quality result due to high PCM rate when DSP is applied. PCM to DSD will be done by audio chip (if it has oversampling Sigma-Delta architecture) that gives high quality result too.

 

[bobbooo]

@bobbooo I doubt Samsung will listen just because one application which can do it. Also not all hardware they use support DSD and their firmware is quite unified, so I am not sure that they even will consider it. You could use Audio Hardware -> Oversample feature (4x or 8x) and get very similar high quality result due to high PCM rate when DSP is applied. PCM to DSD will be done by audio chip (if it has oversampling Sigma-Delta architecture) that gives high quality result too.

Well I think contacting them is at least worth a try. They're more likely to listen to you as a developer than just a user like me.

I do currently use 8x oversampling. I saw you said All to DSD would increase EQ headroom by 6 dB - is this in comparison to no oversampling? Would there be an audible increase in audio quality from PCM with 8x oversampling to All to DSD?

Oh and one more question, what exactly is the difference between having 32-bit Output (IEE 754) on and off when using a 32-bit DAC such as my Snapdragon S10e's WCD9341? I see the only difference is under 'Bits', 'out' is listed as '32 fp' (floating point?) rather than '32 int' (integer?). Will the best audio quality when using EQ and playing 16-bit 44.1kHz music be with this option turned on or off?

 

[Steve Guppy]

So I want to follow the source frequency as faithfully as possible, and have the menu ticked for this purpose. I'm more than happy with the sound quality of my FLAC files be they 16 or 24 bit. What i would like to know, in the interest of best possible music quality, should i have this option on or off? Feel free everyone and anyone to advise

 

[bobbooo]

So I want to follow the source frequency as faithfully as possible, and have the menu ticked for this purpose. I'm more than happy with the sound quality of my FLAC files be they 16 or 24 bit. What i would like to know, in the interest of best possible music quality, should i have this option on or off? Feel free everyone and anyone to advise

I just asked this too, see the post above yours I was asking whether it should be on or off for best audio quality when using the EQ and 8x oversampling though, but like you, I'd also like to know if it should be on or off when I want bit-perfect playback (16-bit 44.1kHz) without any DSP. Hoepfully the developer will have an answer.

 

[superuser1]

I just want to know how the All to DSD function is activated? would it work with iBasso DC02?

 

[dmitrykos]

@bobbooo

> Would there be an audible increase in audio quality from PCM with 8x oversampling to All to DSD?

All To DSD makes it possible to skip stage of conversion from floating point audio samples to integer before sending data to the OS/DAC. Such conversion adds quantization error. So in this respect All To DSD will be beneficial. Also Neutron's All To DSD will sound the same on all DACs which have Sigma-Delta architecture (all recent ESS and AKM DACs at least), so if you like such unification, it will work great for you. DAC has own PCM to DSD (Sigma-Delta) conversion algorithm which may perform better than Neutron's or may be Neutron's may have better sound image (frequency response), so there is no definitive answer for that. In our tests, if All To DSD outputs to DSD128, e.g. sampling rate doubles, it will greatly improve noise level (becomes much lower) and moves away high-frequency noise which is common to the PCM to Sigma-Delta conversion. There is ongoing development though to improve DSD64 output with various approaches to algorithm because mobile CPUs are still not that fast to provide DSD128 option (otherwise people will complain about power usage and etc.).

> I want bit-perfect playback (16-bit 44.1kHz) without any DSP

Neutron's All To DSD acts as a software DAC (with benefit of converting audio engine's floating point audio samples directly to DSD [Sigma-Delta signal]). So you have choice - hardware DAC, or Neutron's software DAC (by using All To DSD). The choice depends on what you like more - Neutron's implementation or hardware DAC's algorithm/performance is just fine for you.

@superuser1, as Neutron needs DSD64 support from the output hardware then iBasso DC02 should be ok.

 

[superuser1]

I tried with the DC02 as well as the micro iDSD BL... i just couldn't get the All to DSD option anywhere.. i am sure i am missing the obvious!

 

[bobbooo]

@bobbooo

> Would there be an audible increase in audio quality from PCM with 8x oversampling to All to DSD?

All To DSD makes it possible to skip stage of conversion from floating point audio samples to integer before sending data to the OS/DAC. Such conversion adds quantization error. So in this respect All To DSD will be beneficial. Also Neutron's All To DSD will sound the same on all DACs which have Sigma-Delta architecture (all recent ESS and AKM DACs at least), so if you like such unification, it will work great for you. DAC has own PCM to DSD (Sigma-Delta) conversion algorithm which may perform better than Neutron's or may be Neutron's may have better sound image (frequency response), so there is no definitive answer for that. In our tests, if All To DSD outputs to DSD128, e.g. sampling rate doubles, it will greatly improve noise level (becomes much lower) and moves away high-frequency noise which is common to the PCM to Sigma-Delta conversion. There is ongoing development though to improve DSD64 output with various approaches to algorithm because mobile CPUs are still not that fast to provide DSD128 option (otherwise people will complain about power usage and etc.).

> I want bit-perfect playback (16-bit 44.1kHz) without any DSP

Neutron's All To DSD acts as a software DAC (with benefit of converting audio engine's floating point audio samples directly to DSD [Sigma-Delta signal]). So you have choice - hardware DAC, or Neutron's software DAC (by using All To DSD). The choice depends on what you like more - Neutron's implementation or hardware DAC's algorithm/performance is just fine for you.

@superuser1, as Neutron needs DSD64 support from the output hardware then iBasso DC02 should be ok.

Thanks for the explanation. Could you answer my last question (and Steve Guppy's question) as well - what does the '32-bit Output (IEE 754)' option do? For the best audio quality, is it best to have this option on or off in the case of a) wanting bitperfect playback, and b) using EQ and DSP, when using a 32-bit capable audio codec such as the Qualcomm WCD9341 in the Snapdragon S10e?

 

[dmitrykos]

I tried with the DC02 as well as the micro iDSD BL... i just couldn't get the All to DSD option anywhere.. i am sure i am missing the obvious!

Would you please drop a message to neutronmp@gmail.com so that it would be possible to get logs from Neutron and check what might be the problem.