[SoulFood]

Hi there headfi world!
 
I've just recently started thinking about headphones as my primary home listening system... I don't have any equipment yet, so I'm looking for any advice I can get.

Oh, I'm also a sound engineer (with an actual  engineering job... not a "home producer") so I unfortunately know good sound when I hear it. It makes everything so much more expensive...

So now my mission is to find a solution that won't cost an arm and a leg. A strong starting point on wich I could build for quite some time (different headphones, same system)

My primary (and probably only) source will be a computer. I have a professional audio interface at the moment, but will sell it and get a more dedicated system. My thoughts are: start with the best possible DA.

Here is my current top contender:
(Lynx L22)
http://www.lynxstudio.com/product_detail.asp?i=11

I don't know how much you guys know about obscure soundcards... but this one is rather good in the DA section and that's all I'm really looking for.



For the amplifier I'm seriously considering going for tubes. As an engineer I've always tried to stay away from them, I like the signal path as clean as possible so i can **** it up in the mix... But I admit they add something... So if I can't have them professionaly, I think I'd enjoy them at home!

This is what I'm looking at:
(Bottlehead Crack OTL)
http://www.bottlehead.com/store.php?crn=224&rn=442&action=show_detail

Headphones will be the last part of my system and it's actually here that I'd like to be a bit "cheap". It's just the easies part to change and I'm a bit short on cash at the moment, so no Stax for me.
 
For the start I'm actually looking for something UNDER 200 EUR.
 
I know absolutely nothing about headphones but I've always thought that GRADOs where high-end.
Would GRADO SR225i make a good start for me?


Thank you so much for any help and replies, I'm looking forward to being a part of your community!


 

 

[BotByte]

I believe soundcards are worhtless
 
and putting them to Tube amps are even worse.
 
Grado also don't need a amp. The Crack OTL will drive a Grado the same as a CMOY - yeah, go ahead and get me on this. I back it up.
Grado don't even need a amp
 
I'm guessing, you're looking about about $600-700 for a setup?
 
Really, a FiiO E7 and FiiO E9 would suit you better
 
 
But let's ask this:
 
Price Range
Music Genre's or usage
Preferences (comfort, sound)

 

[SoulFood]

Thx BotByte for your reply!

I'm sorry you feel that way about soundcards... I'm really not interested in convincing anyone here (but seriouslly... There is no way a better sound would come from that FIIO thing). My top choice for DA were always Lavry's (until I heard Crane Song) but when we did an A/B test with the Lavry DA924 and the Lynx TWO (the converters are the same in L22), I actually prefered the Lynx for about 50% of the music!!! In my world, that says alot.

Anyway, thank you for pointing out my complete ignorance about impedance. Grados are off the menu then. (are all GRADOs 32 ohm?)

What do you think about the amp tho? I've read some pretty good things about it...

Also, what headphones would you reccomend for an amp like the Bottlehead? Are HD650 really the only "safe" bet?

And now to your questions...

Price range: I really hope to stay under 200 EUR for my first headphones

Music Genre: I'm sorry, but actually everything from classical, fusion, etno, rock, grunge, ska, chansons, metal, jazz, swing bands...
I know this doesn't help much, but it's all in my collection, waiting for the right mood.

 

[SoulFood]

Forgot to ask... why would taking a line level signal from a soundcard be inappropriate for anything with a tube? (don't use tube gear at work, so I don't really know if there is something to it)

 

[BotByte]

Check out my review on the HD598 in my signature. It's good for your genres and meets your price range easily.
 
The amp is nice, and would power the HD598 pretty well.
 
Senn HD650's are like the HD598, but a little more analytical (less FUN). So if you want to analyze your music then to listen (enjoy) it, go ahead. The HD598 are more fun to listen to.
 
If you like to mod, check out my T50RP review and the modding section next to it in my signature. I rate my T50RP at LCD-2 sound level with any amp. They would pair great with the Crack OTL.
 
 
Also, Ohms don't really matter as long as you don't pair the headphone to a MAD amp made to push 600ohms. Grado's are all 32ohm, even the PS1000. Made to be highly efficient

 

[SoulFood]

Top info! Thx!
 
I've done a quick search and I don't think I'd be able to listen to the fostex anywhere near unfortunately. I'm kind of ashamed to say this, but I also really don't like the looks. Not for my special little audiophile system anyway. I'm sorry

Also, I'm not really looking for "fun" in the headphones. I'd actually still like to keep the signal clean (minus the tube amp of course) so as little coloration as possible would be perfect!


 
 
 

 

[BotByte]

Quote:

Top info! Thx!
 
I've done a quick search and I don't think I'd be able to listen to the fostex anywhere near unfortunately. I'm kind of ashamed to say this, but I also really don't like the looks. Not for my special little audiophile system anyway. I'm sorry

Also, I'm not really looking for "fun" in the headphones. I'd actually still like to keep the signal clean (minus the tube amp of course) so as little coloration as possible would be perfect!


 
 
 

Well then you have a choice:
 
HD650 - more balanced
HD600 - more bass
 
that's about it.
 
Also see about Shure 940
They are like the HD598 but more analytical (less fun) and work well with tubes.
I would go this route because the they are like the HD598 but less fun and more Pro in a sense. The sound is also better then the HD6x0 series
 

 

[KneelJung]

I'm starting to think Bot is a stealth Grado hater. Every single thread dissing on the Grado. Anyway to the OP's question, the 225 is an awesome headphone. I've had two, and still own the 2nd one. If your going to do your DA conversion with a sound card and want tubes. Go with a hybrid like a Little Dot +1, it's a hybrid tube / solid state amp. Many Grado owners swear by it. Others have said the Fiio E11 has really good synergy. Personally I have an Audio GD DAC / Amp combo that I really like.
 
Are you looking for something that's fun or something flat & neutral?
 
Because the Grado leans to the fun side, there's not much sound stage which makes them very fun and intimate with music like rock and jazz. They're awesome with guitars, so I imagine they are great for metal. I know they rock the hell out of Joe Bonamassa and Buddy Guy. They compliment the small amount of jazz that I listen to nicely and despite Bot's nostrums are an awesome choice.

 

[SoulFood]

God I knew this was going to happen!

Now no 200$ headphone would let me enjoy my setup!
 
So now the question suddenly became... Do I wait with the Lynx + Bottlehead amp setup and just use my Fireface 800 as an amp and buy a really good set of headphones?

Or do I start building from the ground up and get cheaper headphones...

 

 

[Elysian]

Grado SR225i is a great starting headphone as long as you don't mind brightness.  I used them for a year before upgrading to the Stax O2.  I think the SR225i is at the sweet spot for the best bang-for-buck, and you get quickly diminishing returns once you move to RS1i territory.  My DAC+amp setup for the SR225i was about $1400, and the SR225i was good enough that I heard a significant increase in the quality of sound with the DAC and amp successively.
 
The nice thing about the Grados is since they're low impedance, you can focus on your source and get an amp later.
 
It sounds like you're happy with your source, though I personally would advise you to go for bit-perfect playback, which means you'd need to invest in a DAC.  I'm not familiar with the DA924, but isn't that piece of pro gear, not audiophile gear?  The DA11 is the usual piece of Lavry gear I see cited which has great reviews, particularly given the price.
 
It's tough to make a recommendation without a clear idea of what you're shooting for and what budget you have.  If you have a good enough source and amp, just use those and spend all your money on appropriate headphones.  Have you demoed any audiophile headphones yet?

 

[BotByte]

Quote:

I'm starting to think Bot is a stealth Grado hater. Every single thread dissing on the Grado. Anyway to the OP's question, the 225 is an awesome headphone. I've had two, and still own the 2nd one. If your going to do your DA conversion with a sound card and want tubes. Go with a hybrid like a Little Dot +1, it's a hybrid tube / solid state amp. Many Grado owners swear by it. Others have said the Fiio E11 has really good synergy. Personally I have an Audio GD DAC / Amp combo that I really like.
 
Are you looking for something that's fun or something flat & neutral?
 
Because the Grado leans to the fun side, there's not much sound stage which makes them very fun and intimate with music like rock and jazz. They're awesome with guitars, so I imagine they are great for metal. I know they rock the hell out of Joe Bonamassa and Buddy Guy. They compliment the small amount of jazz that I listen to nicely and despite Bot's nostrums are an awesome choice.

What are you talking about?
 
Grado were my first and my favorite. I love my Grado as much as I love my cat.
 
I just think the only thing they are good for is Rock/Jazz. Anything more and the sound is "dulled" as I put it. Rap/hip hop sounds dead. electronic actually sound pretty right
 
I hate companies that can't price their stuff right. And boring cans. Like Denon, some Shure, Anything at Bestbuy. I also hate certain things companies do. Like Koss and plugs, Senn and plastic

 

[SoulFood]

Hi KneelJung and Elysian! Thx for chiming in!

No, I haven't demoed any really good headphones. It would be nearly impossible to test side-by-side in Slovenia unfortunately!
And yes, the Lavry DA924 is a pro piece of gear, but I imagine the quality is on par with their audiophile line, maybe just different sonic character (or different set of settings, don't really know).

Elysian, could you please tell me more about what you mean by bit-perfect playback? The signal comming from a "soundcard" should be almost identical to the sound going from the soundcard through AES/EBU to a seperate converter... If anything, going through a seperate converter potentially adds problems with the sync. But really. A good soundcard is just as good as a stand-alone unit. With a good internal clock jitter shouldn't be an issue... If anyone is interested... here's a review (not a very good one, but anyways) of the different version of the soundcard. It really is quite special. IMHO anyways.
 
KneelJung, thank you for the tip on the Little Dot! I took a quick look at it, seems really interesting, but somehow I don't trust anything cheap that in my expectations should be expensive to be good.
I can understand how a kit can cost a fraction of the price of a produced unit and still sound as good (bottlehead kit is the only one I found... do you know of any other audiophile kits?). But the mix of tube and SS is really tempting!


Thank you for all the help so far guys!

 

[SoulFood]

Hm... just discovered the Little Dot MKII Tube amp... thoughts on how it compares to the Bottlehead?

 

[BotByte]

Quote:

Hm... just discovered the Little Dot MKII Tube amp... thoughts on how it compares to the Bottlehead?

Bottle is a little better. But you don't have to build a little dot.
 
But for Grado you don't need a amp. Worthless to them. A good DAC makes better sense. But they also don't need a DAC.for Grado.

 

[Brooko]

Quote:

Well then you have a choice:
 
HD650 - more balanced
HD600 - more bass
 
that's about it.
 
Also see about Shure 940
They are like the HD598 but more analytical (less fun) and work well with tubes.
I would go this route because the they are like the HD598 but less fun and more Pro in a sense. The sound is also better then the HD6x0 series
 

Botbyte - 
 
Got it wrong - you might want to correct it.  HD600 are more balanced, HD650 have more bass.
 
Also I know its personal preference - but for OPs wide array of genres, IMO with the correct amping (he was talking tubes), the HD600 (or HD650) are better than the SRH940 when properly amped.