An exploration of Chord DAVE, MScaler, Qutest, and Holo May, HQPlayer
Oct 15, 2021 at 9:38 AM Post #796 of 1,488
Thanks for that, I wasn't sure with eARC being audio only and the varible pin configuration available with Holo products suggested to me that it may be possible.
I guess it must say eARC on the audio device like it does on the new Lumin P1.
 
Oct 17, 2021 at 4:56 PM Post #797 of 1,488
If you don't do any upsampling with the Holo May vis HQ Player is it still on par with the Dave + M Scaler?
 
Oct 17, 2021 at 6:16 PM Post #798 of 1,488
If you don't do any upsampling with the Holo May vis HQ Player is it still on par with the Dave + M Scaler?
Its hard to compare.

Imo NOS and OS are just different. It's like asking if tubes or solid state is better. They're just good at different things and I like having and switching between both.
 
Oct 17, 2021 at 7:47 PM Post #799 of 1,488
Different filtering. Good to have both, but it is not NOS.
 
Oct 17, 2021 at 9:08 PM Post #800 of 1,488
Different filtering. Good to have both, but it is not NOS.
You don’t say?
You may have shared that view before, if i recall correctly.

thanks
 
Oct 18, 2021 at 4:38 AM Post #801 of 1,488
At the suggestion of some participants over at the Musetec Audio (LKS Audio) MH-DA005 DAC thread, I am re-posting this review here.


Musetec Audio (LKS Audio) MH-DA005 DAC and the Holo May (L2) DAC Compared

A comparison of these two DACs is something I wanted to do for months given the numerous stellar reviews of the May and the widely unknown, but highly praised, 005. Those of us who own the 005 believe it is an undiscovered gem. I bought the 005 initially because it was cheaper (approximately 3K) and because of the wonderful experience I had with it’s predecessor, the 004. After hearing and greatly enjoying the 005, I found it hard to believe any DAC could be significantly better. Eventually my curiosity got the best of me and I had to find out. There were no comparative reviews. After selling some equipment that I wasn’t using for a few thousand dollars, I coughed up the 5K to buy it, thinking I could always sell it if I didn’t love it more than the 005.

After about approximately 500 hours of break in, as recommended by the manufacturer, the May was ready to compare with the 005.

First, before I begin, the reader should know my perspective and preferences. I started out in my teens and early 20s, during the 60s and early 70s, as mostly a rock and roll fan with some rhythm and blues and folk music thrown in. Around 1971 I found a lack of good new rock music (the Beatles broke up, the Stones became inactive, and Dylan had a motorcycle accident). So I tried some classical. At first I found it boring but very gradually over the years I became addicted. When I moved to Manhattan, I went to classical music concerts frequently and eventually subscribed to the New York Philharmonic. I continued my subscription for over 20 years. In addition to orchestral music I attended chamber concerts and some opera.

My perspective favors live natural acoustic music, though I still love classic rock and oldies. To me the preferred audio sound is one that feels like a real event, a live, in the room, palpable presence. Natural resolution and detail is essential. (In physics lingo, my goal is to hear all the overtones, on top of the fundamental sine wave, which define the timbre of a real world instrument or voice.) I seek a sound that is accurate and clear, but slightly warm, conveying rich but realistic lower mid-range and upper bass much like what you would hear in Carnegie Hall or Symphony Hall in Boston.

Many music lovers are not into classical so the music referred to below may be unfamiliar. Nevertheless, the conclusions I’ve made as to sound should have relevance to all genres.

Preliminaries

I fed both dacs via computers (an Asus mini and an Asus laptop) because I had two. Thus I could do quick comparisons by preamp input switching. I recently bought an Ifi Zen Stream network bridge/streamer which, after some frustration, I hooked up via ethernet cable. Since I only had one I could not use it to do quick comparisons between the two DACs.

For the record, the 005 fed by the Zen Stream via usb did improve the sound by lifting a slight veil of haze, which you might not know was present until it was removed. With the May a slight improvement might have also occurred, but the effect was less clear to me, because I didn’t have time to do much listening with and without the network bridge.

Both DACs were played through a Hegel P30 preamp to a McIntosh MC402 amp, then to Kef Reference 1 speakers and two SVS sb-3000 subwoofers crossed over at 46hz.

Method

I began with critical listening focused on sound quality using a/b switching. Generally, I would listen for about a minute or less to one then switch to the other to hear the same passage.

I will report in the future on longer term impressions after living with these DACs for a few weeks.

I started with the following music tracks. I chose them to facilitate focusing on certain sonic elements listed in parenthesis below:

1. Solo piano: Beethoven Appassionata (transient attack and decay, timbre/overtones, micro detail, clarity)
2. Violin Sonata: No 1 Prokofiev (timbre/overtones)
3. Piano trio: Beethoven “Ghost” (imaging)
4. An aria from an Oratorio by Handel entitled Theodora (imaging, female voice, hall ambiance)
5. Large orchestra, soloists, chorus, and massed strings. Mahler Symphony no. 2, final movement. (congestion, hall ambience and depth, width, and imaging)
6. Light My Fire, Doors (energy, rhythm, male voice)
7. Sunshine of My Love, The Cream (drums, energy, rhythm, male voice)

Round 1
The Solo piano test. I choose Beethoven’s Appassionata played by Arthur Rubinstein. I think a solo piano reveals transient speed, attack (leading edge of the note), and decay like no other instrument.

It was almost a tie in these sonic qualities. Both were excellent. The 005 to my ear had slightly better definition and decay. The May had a slightly richer bass tone and was solid and very pleasing. The 005 was leaner but had more sparkle, capturing all the natural overtones on higher notes.

Round 2
Violin Sonata: No 1 Prokofiev performed by Vicktoria Mullova.

The results were similar to the piano test. The 005 clearly had better reproduction of the natural overtones of the violin. The May was bassier, with the music emerging from a blacker background.

Round 3
Beethoven’s “Ghost” Trio for piano violin and cello performed by Istomin, Stern, and Rose.

Imaging was about equal with each instrument appearing in space laterally where it should. The 005 placed the instruments more forward as if your were seated closer to the stage. The blacker background of the May made the separation of the instruments clearer, but the warmth made the musicians seem more recessed, as if your seat was well behind the 005 “seat”. The May sounded slightly soft but was solid, beautiful, and addictive, if not completely convincing on vivid violin timbre.

Round 4

Next, I played an aria from Handel’s Theodora, sung by the late and brilliant mezzo soprano Loraine Hunt Lieberson. It consists of the vocalist supported by a cello and harpsichord (basso continuo). I chose this because the recording contains only two instruments and a singer. It thus presents a good opportunity to clearly hear imaging and hall ambiance in addition to providing a well defined lower midrange and bass line, and a beautiful female voice.

Both the May and the 005 sounded completely convincing and beautiful, especially in realistic tonal balance, including rich bass and a clear cello, harpsichord, and voice. The sound field width had the same realism in both. Loraine’s voice image was more natural in space, clearer, with a touch more air on the 005. The May had a bit less clarity, as it sounded further away, but was a tad smoother in texture.

Round 5
Mahler Symphony no. 2, final movement. Bruno Walter, the New York Philharmonic. A large orchestra and chorus with soloists is a good test of dynamics, detail, sound stage/ability to retrieve hall ambiance, clarity, and imaging.

The two DACs were equal in dynamics but the 005 was superior in every other way. The 005 picked up more air in the hall, exhibited no congestion between instruments, produced a deeper more natural sound stage, not by virtue of more bass, but more air or hall ambiance. In this case better hall ambiance produced more vivid imaging. The 005 was vivid and conveyed more emotion. Chorus voices were not as distinct in the May. Vocal soloists were clearer in the Musetec.

Round 6
Light My Fire, Doors (energy, rhythm, male voice)
Very close in all aspects. The 005 seemed to articulate higher frequencies better and thus had appropriate edginess.

Round 7
Sunshine of My love, The Cream (Drums, energy, rhythm, male voice)
Again, very close in all aspects. I can’t tell the difference.

Conclusion
First and foremost these DACs were both excellent in every category. At times during the A/B listening I could not tell them apart. To be sure, they are different, but if a listener familiar with the sound of both walked into a room without knowing which DAC was playing, it would not be surprising if he or she guessed wrong. The take-away is, in my opinion, they are both in the same class. The point of this exercise though is primarily to determine their differences.

As I said earlier, the live realistic character of the sound wave comes, in large part, from capturing all the overtones. This gives accurate timbre and detail. The 005 has more than the May. Another component of realism, in my opinion, is solidity of texture and prominence of the sound emerging from the background (black or zero background noise). The May has more of this.

In fact, the May’s blacker background is like nothing I’ve ever heard. It has an uncanny realism, solidity, and ease. It sounds like the very best vinyl. Smooth always listenable and engaging. Overall it is sweeter and softer than the Musetec. Probably even more so than actual live music. I call this natural texture, for lack of a better term.

In sum: sound texture May wins; Realistic space, detail, micro dynamics, and high frequency energy, the 005 wins. Clearly the Musetec works best if listening to a large orchestra where details, hall ambience, and clarity (lack of congestion) are priorities.

If the price were the same then take your pick, they are in the same class. Choose the May if you like two teaspoons of sugar and a little extra cream in your half caf coffee, the 005 if you like your coffee “regular”, as New Yorkers say. But for a $2K difference in price the 005 wins. Even if you lean toward the analog sound of the May you can take the $2,000 saved to tweak the 005 to sound more like the May by adding a nice tube preamp or warmer/smoother sounding cables. If you outright prefer the 005, you have an extra $2,000 in your pocket.
You called may at most like expression "warm" or "smooth" relatively to 005 which has more "Realistic space, detail, micro dynamics, and high frequency energy".
I think you just perfer forwarded and edged sounding or the entire session was in mis-matching condition.
And Don't misunderstand micro-dynamics as being have more high frequency quantity, or delude yourself it is just right.
I was listening he6se v2, fed from holo azure with spring3 KTE, and occasionally with emotiva a-150.
That time I thought emotiva a-150 was right in first time, but it has just forwarded or prominent sounding with more macro dynamics(later it also turned out that has some harmonics with my deluded notion).
Why i'm writing this? because Goldenone said he heard dave is less resolving than may, so it's like ' what? most cleanest dac dave is bested? Ok well done jeff' and now 'it is less resolving than chip-based dac? what?'
That was contradiction to me.
Only matter in first place is gear matching i think, then should be futher implemented more test.

BTW a great writing.
Best regards
 
Oct 18, 2021 at 5:12 AM Post #803 of 1,488
You don’t say?
You may have shared that view before, if i recall correctly.

thanks
.
May or spring's NOS DSP process includes for excuting PLL or input-data alignment(?) etc..
Only without OS implementation.
That is called DSP too.
I suggest you both read this post to which One has yet to respond.

BTW, PLL or input-data alignment refer to the clock synchronisation, does not alter bit-perfect data path. Data scrambling or use of digital filter does.
 
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Oct 18, 2021 at 9:30 AM Post #804 of 1,488
You called may at most like expression "warm" or "smooth" relatively to 005 which has more "Realistic space, detail, micro dynamics, and high frequency energy".
I think you just perfer forwarded and edged sounding or the entire session was in mis-matching condition.
And Don't misunderstand micro-dynamics as being have more high frequency quantity, or delude yourself it is just right.
I was listening he6se v2, fed from holo azure with spring3 KTE, and occasionally with emotiva a-150.
That time I thought emotiva a-150 was right in first time, but it has just forwarded or prominent sounding with more macro dynamics(later it also turned out that has some harmonics with my deluded notion).
Why i'm writing this? because Goldenone said he heard dave is less resolving than may, so it's like ' what? most cleanest dac dave is bested? Ok well done jeff' and now 'it is less resolving than chip-based dac? what?'
That was contradiction to me.
Only matter in first place is gear matching i think, then should be futher implemented more test.

BTW a great writing.
Best regards
Just as DBB1 stated, 005 not forward, edgy, yet it is highly resolving, don't be so quick to judge Delta Sigma. It also is not R2R, here it may be closer to Delta Sigma preconceptions. 005 capable of highly musical, non-fatiguing, live performers in room performance.
 
Oct 18, 2021 at 7:22 PM Post #805 of 1,488
If you don't do any upsampling with the Holo May vis HQ Player is it still on par with the Dave + M Scaler

Not sure if this will be a right comparison :) we have seen comparison with many combination e.g. May Vs Dave, May+HQp Vs Dave, Dave+MS Vs May etc

What will be very interesting will be the curtain raiser apples to apples comparison of (May + HQp) Vs (Dave + MS) i.e. both the DACs with their own synergetic upscaling options. Would be great if folks can shed more light on this
 
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Oct 18, 2021 at 7:25 PM Post #806 of 1,488
Not sure if this will be a right comparison :) we have seen comparison with many combination e.g. May Vs Dave, May+HQp Vs Dave, Dave+MS Vs May etc

What will be very interesting will be the curtain raiser apples to apples comparison of (May + HQp) Vs (Dave + MS) i.e. both the DACs with their own synergetic upscaling options. Would be great if folks can shed more highlights on this
I'm still trying to figure out which combo will end up being best for me. The Dave with letting the M Scaler deal with all that jazz vs having to play around with HQ player just seems way more painless. I'm not sure I'm tech savvy enough to figure out all the HQ players nuances.

I've demoed both the May KTE and the Dave and I do love the chord house sound, the Holo May still really impressed me.

I'm trying to wrap my head around the true differences between the two and decide what will be the best route for myself. Definitely want to explore all my options with the May though because it's substantially less expensive than the Dave + M Scaler, so if I can love the sound just as much for way cheaper I want to be able to do that.
 
Oct 18, 2021 at 7:29 PM Post #807 of 1,488
I'm still trying to figure out which combo will end up being best for me. The Dave with letting the M Scaler deal with all that jazz vs having to play around with HQ player just seems way more painless. I'm not sure I'm tech savvy enough to figure out all the HQ players nuances.

I've demoed both the May KTE and the Dave and I do love the chord house sound, the Holo May still really impressed me.

I'm trying to wrap my head around the true differences between the two and decide what will be the best route for myself. Definitely want to explore all my options with the May though because it's substantially less expensive than the Dave + M Scaler, so if I can love the sound just as much for way cheaper I want to be able to do that.
For me I preferred hqp to mscaler with both dacs.

Both are great though and it's mostly just down to if you prefer quality or convenience
 
Oct 18, 2021 at 7:30 PM Post #808 of 1,488
For me I preferred hqp to mscaler with both dacs.

Both are great though and it's mostly just down to if you prefer quality or convenience
Quality most definitely as long as it's not something that will end up so complicated it's not worth it.

The one thing that weighs heavily in favor of the May is I don't love chords design choices aesthetically, but that's just me being nitpicky.
 
Oct 18, 2021 at 10:28 PM Post #809 of 1,488
I'm still trying to figure out which combo will end up being best for me. The Dave with letting the M Scaler deal with all that jazz vs having to play around with HQ player just seems way more painless. I'm not sure I'm tech savvy enough to figure out all the HQ players nuances.

I've demoed both the May KTE and the Dave and I do love the chord house sound, the Holo May still really impressed me.

I'm trying to wrap my head around the true differences between the two and decide what will be the best route for myself. Definitely want to explore all my options with the May though because it's substantially less expensive than the Dave + M Scaler, so if I can love the sound just as much for way cheaper I want to be able to do that.

HQp have support in Audiophilestyle website but certainly is complicated and time consuming to get any info with so much of back & forths so do understand your statement. I have HQp evaluation version and am simply trying to stream from music websites & Tidal using my laptop with HQp upsampling, even though my needs are just basic, it does seem to be complicated on how it can be done even after getting info from HQp folks & other Head Fiers. But there is hope ! Two things which can make you comfortable are 1) with Roon, the HQp is easier to setup in laptop though I have not tried it yet, I dont need Roon but now to make HQp work I have to pay for Roon as well which is the catch 2) for laptop specifications to process HQp , the PCM upsampling based on some users I spoke to will be doable with most home laptops and there is no need to buy a very powerful $5K laptop or processing server , but only for DSD one may need to shell out depending on which DSD sampling rate. The PCM 768KHz upsampling itself is terrific and more than enough

Point being, make your decision based on the sound signature to your liking than ease of use as you will eventually figure out HQp in some time. HQp setup is one time (pain :) ) only ! Based on your post, seems you are good with May and if thats the case then go towards that path while you can figure out the HQp, I am planning to order it and in those sweet 5 weeks of wait time, will figure out HQp :)

EDIT: Adding Roon HQp setup which looks to be simple

https://help.roonlabs.com/portal/en...on-and-hqplayer-together#HQPlayer_Integration
 
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Oct 19, 2021 at 3:07 AM Post #810 of 1,488
I'm still trying to figure out which combo will end up being best for me. The Dave with letting the M Scaler deal with all that jazz vs having to play around with HQ player just seems way more painless. I'm not sure I'm tech savvy enough to figure out all the HQ players nuances.

I've demoed both the May KTE and the Dave and I do love the chord house sound, the Holo May still really impressed me.

I'm trying to wrap my head around the true differences between the two and decide what will be the best route for myself. Definitely want to explore all my options with the May though because it's substantially less expensive than the Dave + M Scaler, so if I can love the sound just as much for way cheaper I want to be able to do that.
Only you can decide which sound you like. There are those that prefer the sound of one dac and some who prefer the other. I have owned the May L2 and directly compared it to DC4 Dave + Mscaler. This was probably somewhat unfair because the Dave was being powered by the DC4 but in my speaker system (and to my ears of course) the May was not anywhere near being in the same ballpark as the Dave combination in terms of sound quality (this was with HQP and well as PGGB processed files for playback through the May).

Another option to consider is Dave + HQP. The advantage of that route is that you then have Dave and can later update it to have the DC4 power supply when funds allow to take Dave into a very rarified group of sound quality DACs (IMHO of course!). Also Dave does not need a separate pre amplifier so that is some cost saving. I have tried some exceptional pre amps with the Dave but always return to the best sound quality being to take Dave direct to my power amplifiers.

I see that Roon has been mentioned in the mix together with HQP. There is no doubt that Roon has an exceptional ease of use and user interface but each time I return to using it (I have a lifetime sub) I have only lasted a couple of hours before uninstalling it again because of what I hear it doing to the sound quality, mostly in the bass and lower mids which seem to become rather wooly. This was with Roon running on a Zenith Mk3 and also with it running on an Antipodes K50.

Good luck in your search.
 

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