[GoldenSound]

44.1khz can theoretically have information upto 22.05khz but you can accurately get that information without sinc interpolation. Everything else will not be accurate, specially yours nos horizontal line which introduces points between two samples which are far far away from original. See any line joining two samples is os, you can't simply have individual peaks equivalent to digital samples, you have to fill the gap and nos horizontal line is the most inaccurate.

I don't mean sample rate. I mean actual signal contents at 44.1khz

Im not sure if you're understanding that both ringing and stair steps are outside of the band limit. (technically ringing Is on the band limit but still).

If you'd like to discuss this, see my last message.
Otherwise, I'll respond when someone else more civil wishes to talk

 

[rkt31]

I'm going to leave this here until you answer even one of the questions I asked.
I've made several long posts answering your questions and having what I think is a considerable amount of patience @rkt31

It's only fair you answer the ones I've asked you.

If not, well, I'd encourage you to change your mindset. Everyone on the forum benefits when topics are approached with the intent to discuss and learn.
When you disrupt threads with random assertions and childish emoji filled posts which refuse to answer anything put to you all it does is frustrate people and make us wish that you'd crawl back under your bridge so we could continue having a civil discussion

Ok answer only one thing, how a nos horizontal line is more accurate when it actually introduces sample lying on it which are far far away from original wave.

 

[sajunky]

See any line joining two samples is os, you can't simply have individual peaks equivalent to digital samples, you have to fill the gap and nos horizontal line is the most inaccurate.

Your OS cannot handle inter-sample overloads without cheating. Our ears will reconstruct inter-sample overloads without distorions. This is an example that technology is still behind our hearing abilities. Besides, this is still a debate about static sine wave, how accurate your OS is in a dynamic reconstruction?

Have you ever owned a good NOS DAC for more than two weeks? Answer to this question would help understanding how much you are misguided.

 

[rkt31]

Your OS cannot handle inter-sample overloads without cheating. Our ears will reconstruct inter-sample overloads without distorions. This is an example that technology is still behind our hearing abilities. Besides, this is still a debate about static sine wave, how accurate your OS is in a dynamic reconstruction?

Have you ever owned a good NOS DAC for more than two weeks? Answer to this question would help understanding how much you are misguided.

To cater for inter sample overload some upsampler use 3db reduction like m scaler.

 

[sajunky]

To cater for inter sample overload some upsampler use 3db reduction like m scaler.

You see, but our ears don't need that!

What is your gear @rkt31?

 

[ShenaRingo326]

Did you prefer OS + Slow, OS + Fast, or NOS with HQPlayer on the ARES II?

@GoldenOne

It's a shame this thread got derailed so much.. a slightly relevant question (HQPlayer) for you on the ARES II (see above)

And question #2, should HQPlayer upsampling only be used with NOS DACs to get the most benefit? And would HQPlayer upsampling and the DAC's internal OS make the music sound worse by "double" over sampling the information?

For example, the ARES II USB takes in 1.536KHz so a 24/96 file can be upsampled to 1.536KHz using HQPlayer, then processed by the DAC in OS+Slow mode.

Thanks!

 

[Triode User]

A friend has just bought a Holo May and I think it arrives today. We have tentative plans that he will bring it to my house next week to compare it to my DC4 Dave and also we will be playing some PGGB files through it in NOS.

No graphs, no techno babble, just two guys using their ears. . . . .

 

[GoldenSound]

@GoldenOne

It's a shame this thread got derailed so much.. a slightly relevant question (HQPlayer) for you on the ARES II (see above)

And question #2, should HQPlayer upsampling only be used with NOS DACs to get the most benefit? And would HQPlayer upsampling and the DAC's internal OS make the music sound worse by "double" over sampling the information?

For example, the ARES II USB takes in 1.536KHz so a 24/96 file can be upsampled to 1.536KHz using HQPlayer, then processed by the DAC in OS+Slow mode.

Thanks!

HQP can be used with any DAC.
A NOS dac guarantees that there will be no further processing, dithering, resampling etc that might ruin the work of HQP's upsampling and noise shaping etc (no point using LNS15 dither only to have it then ruined by the DAC adding it's own dithering).

But you can use it with and should still see a benefit with any dac.
When feeding 1.536mhz it doesn't matter what mode you have the Ares 2 in. Also, ares 2 NOS is actually still oversampling.

Without HQP though, I preferred either Slow or Fast. I don't like denafrips 'NOS'

 

[VintageAudio]

@GoldenOne

It's a shame this thread got derailed so much.. a slightly relevant question (HQPlayer) for you on the ARES II (see above)

And question #2, should HQPlayer upsampling only be used with NOS DACs to get the most benefit? And would HQPlayer upsampling and the DAC's internal OS make the music sound worse by "double" over sampling the information?

For example, the ARES II USB takes in 1.536KHz so a 24/96 file can be upsampled to 1.536KHz using HQPlayer, then processed by the DAC in OS+Slow mode.

Thanks!

Yes, I think we went off track quite a bit although it began as an interesting discussion.

The original question was whether around with the Ares II had NOS or not and then the goal post kept getting moved and it became too troll-is..."what is real definition of NOS?...that's not my definition...NOS does not have better SQ etc."

I enjoyed the explanations, but at the end of the day I care more if it sounds good versus the methods NOS, oversampled, delta-sigma, R2R. If the method produces great sounds quality then it's helpful to understand why and how.

 

[sajunky]

But you can use it with and should still see a benefit with any dac.
When feeding 1.536mhz it doesn't matter what mode you have the Ares 2 in. Also, ares 2 NOS is actually still oversampling.

The same trick is used to bypass internal digital processing of Delta-Sigma DACs. It is not always possible, by example when USB interface is a lower speed than required. Resampling quality on the PC is better than in a DAC. The other option is to convert PCM to DSD. Unless a DAC is jitter rigged, this method works very well.

On the R2R side, there is no reason. I made number of test with my Audio GD R2R-11 (which is NOS only) using Foobar/SoX and found no improvements. Now I am playing in a native sampling rate of the source.

 

[GoldenSound]

The same trick is used to bypass internal digital processing of Delta-Sigma DACs. It is not always possible, by example when USB interface is a lower speed than required. Resampling quality on the PC is better than in a DAC. The other option is to convert PCM to DSD. Unless a DAC is jitter rigged, this method works very well.

On the R2R side, there is no reason. I made number of test with my Audio GD R2R-11 (which is NOS only) using Foobar/SoX and found no improvements. Now I am playing in a native sampling rate of the source.

You can't bypass the digital processing of a delta sigma dac this way.
Oversampling is not the only processing that goes on.

The only way you can fully bypass any processing is by upsampling to dsd on dacs that have genuine dsd conversion support (which not all do, ESS chips for example do not).
But then you're not really 'bypassing' anything. Just doing the modulation elsewhere. (and hopefully better)

As to r2r dacs. There are plenty of potential reasons.

 

[Spektrograf]

A friend has just bought a Holo May and I think it arrives today. We have tentative plans that he will bring it to my house next week to compare it to my DC4 Dave and also we will be playing some PGGB files through it in NOS.

No graphs, no techno babble, just two guys using their ears. . . . .

Can't wait to hear how the both of you get on with the comparo!

 

[arnaud]

I'm going to leave this here until you answer even one of the questions I asked.
I've made several long posts answering your questions and having what I think is a considerable amount of patience @rkt31

It's only fair you answer the ones I've asked you.

If not, well, I'd encourage you to change your mindset. Everyone on the forum benefits when topics are approached with the intent to discuss and learn.
When you disrupt threads with random assertions and childish emoji filled posts which refuse to answer anything put to you all it does is frustrate people and make us wish that you'd crawl back under your bridge so we could continue having a civil discussion

Prove me the Holo is NOS. To this date, I could not find the place where to insert now old stock tubes, I think you are WRONG!

…

sorry, a geek joke to relax the atmosphere by a lsb, at very least

 

[TDinCali]

@GoldenOne

Thank you for your reviews. I ordered the May Kitsune based on your review and the opinion of a few other members who I respect on here. If I don't love it, no biggy, someone will get a great DAC at a nice discount.

 

[DJJEZ]

A friend has just bought a Holo May and I think it arrives today. We have tentative plans that he will bring it to my house next week to compare it to my DC4 Dave and also we will be playing some PGGB files through it in NOS.

No graphs, no techno babble, just two guys using their ears. . . . .

Looking forward to what you think about it