An exploration of Chord DAVE, MScaler, Qutest, and Holo May, HQPlayer

[RustyGates]

Whether or not pre/post ringing is audible or to what extent is heavily debated and to be honest there simply hasn't been enough study on it to make a determination I don't think.
There's lots of stuff which 'shouldn't' make a difference but does. Hell Rob Watts himself will tell you there is absolutely no reason that the M-Scaler should improve soundstage. But it does, to a considerable degree.

I agree that an ideal sinc-filter is the on-paper best way to do oversampling, hence why I usually use HQPlayer. But I disagree that it's always the best sounding option. NOS vs OS just sound different to me.

But this is a different issue (an interesting one though!), and probably best to start a new thread on it.

My previous post was just meant to address the implication that the stepping was somehow due to the DAC itself. Which it is not.

In Sinc Interpolation the pre/post ringing of each sample is actually super positioned over a time window to create the interpolated data points at any time t. The ringing is completely cancelled out.

Dirac impulses and square waves (sharp rise i.e. from 0 to 100 in only two or so samples) on the other hand don't occur at all in music as @rtk31 said.

I assume the Holo May has an analogue filter at the output which is a train of notch filters each tuned to one of the common sample rates of 44.1 or 48Khz & all multiples of those rates through to 1.536 MHz, with a high Q factor. This would suppress the aliasing frequency @ whatever sample rate is being played, but there is still some aliasing to the sine wave as you can see on the Stereophile measurements, then there is the wobbly "ESS" hump like IMD measurement by Wolf on ASR with the APx555. The Holo May seems to sound great (haven't heard it), so in terms of audibility, well implemented OS vs well implemented NOS is a bit of a grey area or non-issue (maybe NOS still sounds great due to these aliasing & IMD components being such low level / inaudible). But in terms of what is more technically correct, that would be filtering in the digital domain, because you just can't get that brick-wall like response from an analogue filter.

 

[]eep]

I'm pretty sure the May doesn't have an analog output filter other than 1 big capacitor. Otherwise you could never remain that signal purity and get all sorts of temporal smearing.

I suppose good preprocessing with a computer with a lot of processing speed can do proper 'oversampling' (which is a misnomer since you can only take samples from real soundwaves, not invent them). I think it is better to try to handle all the data you have as delicately as you can (just NOS R2R and no elaborate filtering) . If you want real improvement, increase the data flow, ie get high res material. Use the old mastertapes that have simply more information on in than you can store on 16/44. There is your true oversampling; back to the source. Not letting a computer decide for you how it could have been.

I have a time machine for sound. Sometimes simply called 'records'. It is amazing to listen to old 78's of 70 to 80 years ago how good they can sound. Depending on the recording of course. Also lp's from the early era of stereo sound amazing if you can listen past the little bit of hiss and the occasional crackle. There is so much information in those recordings just because they were not processed.

 

[GoldenSound]

I'm pretty sure the May doesn't have an analog output filter other than 1 big capacitor. Otherwise you could never remain that signal purity and get all sorts of temporal smearing.

I suppose good preprocessing with a computer with a lot of processing speed can do proper 'oversampling' (which is a misnomer since you can only take samples from real soundwaves, not invent them). I think it is better to try to handle all the data you have as delicately as you can (just NOS R2R and no elaborate filtering) . If you want real improvement, increase the data flow, ie get high res material. Use the old mastertapes that have simply more information on in than you can store on 16/44. There is your true oversampling; back to the source. Not letting a computer decide for you how it could have been.

I have a time machine for sound. Sometimes simply called 'records'. It is amazing to listen to old 78's of 70 to 80 years ago how good they can sound. Depending on the recording of course. Also lp's from the early era of stereo sound amazing if you can listen past the little bit of hiss and the occasional crackle. There is so much information in those recordings just because they were not processed.

The big capacitor seen on the board is for power filtering. Its not actually part of the signal path

 

[Bucketron]

Saw from HK distributor FB sending a SA1 to Goldensound for testing. Not sure what is going to be tested.

 

[GoldenSound]

Saw from HK distributor FB sending a SA1 to Goldensound for testing. Not sure what is going to be tested.

I have a few IEM and DAP reviews coming in future so needed an ideal desktop reference point for IEM use. Given as I'd heard the SA-1 previously and liked it a lot, and it has some of the highest SNR at 50mv for IEMs, it was an ideal choice and so I bought one to use as a comparison.

 

[Bucketron]

I have a few IEM and DAP reviews coming in future so needed an ideal desktop reference point for IEM use. Given as I'd heard the SA-1 previously and liked it a lot, and it has some of the highest SNR at 50mv for IEMs, it was an ideal choice and so I bought one to use as a comparison.

Great! Look forward to your test result. Apart from IEM, hope some hard to drive headphone like Susvara or HEDDphone can also be tested. Will try to google the spec of SA1 now.

 

[GoldenSound]

Sorry pal if it look offensive. It cannot be an electrolytic capacitor in such place, it would be very bad.

It can be a blue one as on this photo.

That is the spring 1, not the may.
I do not know if the spring 1 does things differently.

 

[]eep]

Holo Audio uses these caps in all of them and specifically states them as 'Holo Audio caps' for marketing hocus pocus. The European distributer even calls them 'the best sounding caps there are' so I'm pretty sure they're not power caps.


I guess Holo Audio must be very 'audiophile'.

 

[GoldenSound]

So I've been spending some time with the Terminator Plus now and it's been quite interesting. I have the Gaia here too and thought I'd post some early impressions.

This is quite a 'different' DAC because whilst a lot of the outright technical aspects and/or subjective qualities like resolution, macrodynamics, staging etc are very good, it's also somewhat apparent that there is pretty heavy DSP going on.

To get it out of the way: It sounds great, it's a fantastic DAC, but it's also one where many of the differences are not down to the hardware itself.

The most obvious thing that I've found is how layering seems to sort of 'open up' as the track gets busier. Things don't always stay in one place.
A vocalist can be singing 3 feet from you, and then as the organ, drums and trumpets start playing, she gets a bit further away. Not just 'airier' or more separate but actually moves back.

It's a sort of 'adaptive' sound which works really well and is interesting and honestly great fun for a lot of tracks. But then in some situations doesn't quite work.

I'm going to have to pick some tracks to get some apt examples but yeah, it's been quite interesting so far and honestly if I was able to I'd keep this just cause it's going to be quite a different experience to other DACs. But these differences also somewhat prevent you from making direct comparisons to other dacs because how good certain qualities are depends on what's actually going on in the track.

This DSP also shows its head when measuring. I had some similar experiences with the Ares 2 but to a wayyyy lesser extent. The T+ was actually somewhat frustrating to measure. Not because it measures poorly, in fact most areas it measures very well. But just because quite a few test signals (including complex multitones which implies music too) were being altered and made it very tricky to get longer FFT's to finish without errors.

Measurements are available here: https://goldensound.audio/2021/10/07/denafrips-terminator-plus-with-gaia-measurements/
It's also unfortunately not actually NOS, and the oversampling is seemingly 384khz, not 1.536mhz as Denafrips claims on the product page.
Full vid will be coming at somepoint.

It's a great DAC, but quite different.

 

[DavidWMB]

I completely agree, and that's why I ordered from wildism. My issue with Kitsune is that their "Kitsune capacitors" seem to simply be rebadged stock ones.
Wildism however uses all audionote/mundorf/jensen capacitors and hence I was keen to purchase from them instead.

Its not that I don't think changing caps etc will make a difference, i'm sure it can, its just the specific changes kitsune is making I don't believe are anything other than aesthetic changes.
I could well be wrong, but I didn't feel comfortable buying kitsune for that reason.

Good day, I'm considering buying the HoloAudio May L2 DAC. But it so confusing to decipher what the difference is in sonic quality between the May L2 and May KTE, and whether it is worth spending the extra $800 or so on the KTE. It actually puts me off a bit having 3 levels of one particular DAC.

Is the KTE more refined in its sound to the L2? What effect does all the silver wiring in the KTE do to the sonic performance of the DAC; would it not perhaps make it brighter sounding?

My budget presently only really allows for the L2, but what would I be missing out on if I don't take the KTE?

Does the L2 offer a refined, warm sound, or does it have a harsh, bright, digital sound compared to the KTE?

Is the L2 snappy, or slow compared to the KTE?

Again it is very confusing. Do I bite the bullet and spend more on the "flagship" KTE, or is the L2 decent enough in terms of a refined sound that is not bright or harsh and is a natural, quality sound? Is the L2 value for money?

Thanks. Would like to get your perspectives on this.

 

[GoldenSound]

Good day, I'm considering buying the HoloAudio May L2 DAC. But it so confusing to decipher what the difference is in sonic quality between the May L2 and May KTE, and whether it is worth spending the extra $800 or so on the KTE. It actually puts me off a bit having 3 levels of one particular DAC.

Is the KTE more refined in its sound to the L2? What effect does all the silver wiring in the KTE do to the sonic performance of the DAC; would it not perhaps make it brighter sounding?

My budget presently only really allows for the L2, but what would I be missing out on if I don't take the KTE?

Does the L2 offer a refined, warm sound, or does it have a harsh, bright, digital sound compared to the KTE?

Is the L2 snappy, or slow compared to the KTE?

Again it is very confusing. Do I bite the bullet and spend more on the "flagship" KTE, or is the L2 decent enough in terms of a refined sound that is not bright or harsh and is a natural, quality sound? Is the L2 value for money?

Thanks. Would like to get your perspectives on this.

Youre not missing out on much at all with the L2.

I discussed the difference In my video review (search 'holo may review' on YouTube) but it's basically that the kte is just a touch faster/snappier. But the difference is so slim that you'd never be able to tell unless you have them side by side and REALLY REALLY listened close.

The L2 is definitely worthwhile for the upgraded USB. But kte don't worry about it if its not in the budget. Only get kte if the extre $800 isn't really of concern to you

 

[DavidWMB]

Youre not missing out on much at all with the L2.

I discussed the difference In my video review (search 'holo may review' on YouTube) but it's basically that the kte is just a touch faster/snappier. But the difference is so slim that you'd never be able to tell unless you have them side by side and REALLY REALLY listened close.

The L2 is definitely worthwhile for the upgraded USB. But kte don't worry about it if its not in the budget. Only get kte if the extre $800 isn't really of concern to you

Okay, so, forgive me if this is a stupid question, but the L2 is not slow sounding or sluggish - it's only that the KTE is a touch faster?

 

[GoldenSound]

Okay, so, forgive me if this is a stupid question, but the L2 is not slow sounding or sluggish - it's only that the KTE is a touch faster?

Correct. And I have to emphasise the difference is tiny anyway

 

[DavidWMB]

Correct. And I have to emphasise the difference is tiny anyway

Thank you, this is helpful.

 

[thecrow]

Thank you, this is helpful.

I think Tim at kitsune (bimmer100 here) has been a fan of silver wiring.

when he used to have the audio gd master 11 (before kitsune popped up) he had silver wiring replace wiring within it so i guess that is something that lines up with his preferences and hence his offerings/tweaking of these dacs

eg:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/aud...-7-and-master-9.773660/page-138#post-12885056