[setamp]

What about the LCD-3 Fazor?

Most responses have been to recommend a "brighter" amp to compensate for the "darker" LCD-3 sound signature.  With the LCD-3F, however, it seems the tonal balance has been shifted up eliminating the need for more high mid / lower treble energy.

What amp pairs well with the LCD-3F (fazor) ?

 

 

[Argo Duck]

I certainly had to alter the driver tube of my main amp (Decware Taboo II) to compensate for the shift from LCD2r1 to LCD3F. However, it's not as simple as "use a less bright tube". I think it's more about how well the tube exploits the 3F's capabilities (probably the 3C's as well).

And concerning that "brighter" recommendation for older LCDs: not true in the case of the Meier SS amps TME. The brighter, drier Meier Concerto was good with the LCD2r1 but the more full-bodied Meier Classic was better, FWIW. Of course this may be more to do with the Classic being a better amp...

Btw, when I say "better" I mean I get more information: more subtle shadings in terms of fine tonal differentiation and micro-dynamics.

 

[Bellasperson]

Rather than describing it in terms of shifting from darker to brighter it is easier for me to describe it this way.  If the difference between the preFazor LCD3 and the HD800 is 100 then difference between the Fazor LCD3 and the HD800 is 80. A little more accurate, slight improvement in clarity a tiny bit less bass and a little bit less smooth. For me these were pretty subtle changes. Would I alter amp selection? Not in my case. I am using a Cary SLP 05 and mjolnir.  I liked the result preFazor and I like the result post Fazor.  I did make a minor change in tubes. I am using Ken Rad Vt231s in the gain slots and Tung Sol Vt231s in the buffer slot. The Ken Rads are a little more bass friendly in the gain slots and that seemed to help with what I perceived to be just a touch less bass. I wonder if the perceived bass reduction is a result of the increased impedence? I am not a EE but I think this might reduce the effective power.  I found the preFazor LCD3 to be a good match with a wide range of amps.  I still believe that to be the case, at least in comparison the the HD800s.

 

[Badas]

  Rather than describing it in terms of shifting from darker to brighter it is easier for me to describe it this way.  If the difference between the preFazor LCD3 and the HD800 is 100 then difference between the Fazor LCD3 and the HD800 is 80. A little more accurate, slight improvement in clarity a tiny bit less bass and a little bit less smooth. For me these were pretty subtle changes. Would I alter amp selection? Not in my case. I am using a Cary SLP 05 and mjolnir.  I liked the result preFazor and I like the result post Fazor.  I did make a minor change in tubes. I am using Ken Rad Vt231s in the gain slots and Tung Sol Vt231s in the buffer slot. The Ken Rads are a little more bass friendly in the gain slots and that seemed to help with what I perceived to be just a touch less bass. I wonder if the perceived bass reduction is a result of the increased impedence? I am not a EE but I think this might reduce the effective power.  I found the preFazor LCD3 to be a good match with a wide range of amps.  I still believe that to be the case, at least in comparison the the HD800s.

Good explanation. I have a Woo WA22 ordered. Can't wait to get into tube rolling.

 

[Articnoise]

  What about the LCD-3 Fazor?

Most responses have been to recommend a "brighter" amp to compensate for the "darker" LCD-3 sound signature.  With the LCD-3F, however, it seems the tonal balance has been shifted up eliminating the need for more high mid / lower treble energy.

What amp pairs well with the LCD-3F (fazor) ?

 

 
The tonality isn’t the only thing too consider then pairing an amp to LCD3, as important is that they are transparent, refined, dynamic and have a clear and open sound. Also the SQ and tonality on the dac + source is as important as the amp if not more IMO. With that said I think LCD3f match a little better with a neutral amp and dac than a warmer one.
 
My guess is that all the amps that’s good for the LCD3C will be as good on the LCD3F + some higher Ohms tube amps.
 

 

[Xecuter]

Hi there guys, read through most of this thread. Am about to upgrade and buy the LCD-3 and I think the Burson Conductor. I have been eye balling a few other amps and had the chance to audition the wa22 and the Burson  Conductor and found the Burson to be superior. But still felt the sub-bass and the punchiness in the mid bass was a little lack luster. Am wondering if you guys might have better amp recommendations or should I look at getting the LCD-XC or X?
 
I don't really have a budget. But I can't drop 10k on the Abyss and Liquid Gold.

 

[alvin sawdust]

Because of the fazored LCD3's higher impedance, has anyone tried them with a amp usually reserved for higher z phones i.e. OTL?
 
Apologies if this seems a dumb question.

 

[kkcc]

Hi there guys, read through most of this thread. Am about to upgrade and buy the LCD-3 and I think the Burson Conductor. I have been eye balling a few other amps and had the chance to audition the wa22 and the Burson  Conductor and found the Burson to be superior. But still felt the sub-bass and the punchiness in the mid bass was a little lack luster. Am wondering if you guys might have better amp recommendations or should I look at getting the LCD-XC or X?

I don't really have a budget. But I can't drop 10k on the Abyss and Liquid Gold.

For wa22 or any tube amps, the tube will largely determine their performances. There you will need to factor in the NOS tubes cost when evaluating. While it's an expensive endeavor to tube roll, you would get some very desirable sounds with different driver/rectifier/power tube combos. E.g. the wa22 with TS5998 power tubes give very satisfying bass with my LCD3 with great sub bass extension and mid bass impact.

 

[Somphon]

  Hi there guys, read through most of this thread. Am about to upgrade and buy the LCD-3 and I think the Burson Conductor. I have been eye balling a few other amps and had the chance to audition the wa22 and the Burson  Conductor and found the Burson to be superior. But still felt the sub-bass and the punchiness in the mid bass was a little lack luster. Am wondering if you guys might have better amp recommendations or should I look at getting the LCD-XC or X?
 
I don't really have a budget. But I can't drop 10k on the Abyss and Liquid Gold.

 
I tried Burson Conductor and found the bass a little lose, nothing about it excites me. Never tried it with WA22.
I like my LCD-3f better with Hugo.

 

[Argo Duck]

Tried 3F with Decware CSP2+ (OTL). Sounds good - much better than LCD2r1 with this amp - but transients were obviously softened and it seemed less dynamic (probably in consequence). I didn't persist. The transformer-coupled Decware Taboo sounds way better despite the higher Z. (Note: I did need to change the driver tube to get the 3F sounding right. Surprisingly, a humble Tung Sol 12AU7).

Of course this isn't conclusive. My CSP2+ is tuned for my T1. The right tubes might reverse this result...

Because of the fazored LCD3's higher impedance, has anyone tried them with a amp usually reserved for higher z phones i.e. OTL?

 

[alvin sawdust]

Tried 3F with Decware CSP2+ (OTL). Sounds good - much better than LCD2r1 with this amp - but transients were obviously softened and it seemed less dynamic (probably in consequence). I didn't persist. The transformer-coupled Decware Taboo sounds way better despite the higher Z. (Note: I did need to change the driver tube to get the 3F sounding right. Surprisingly, a humble Tung Sol 12AU7).

Of course this isn't conclusive. My CSP2+ is tuned for my T1. The right tubes might reverse this result...

Thanks for your insight AiDee.

 

[Xecuter]

Hey there, I know tube rolling might make the wa22, more resolving, the stock tubes with the LCD-3f were very dark sounding, to the point that it was blurry and sluggish. I guess Balanced with a really good DAC I could consider getting the wa22 with upgrade  tubes, but then I feel at that price, I would rather get some really good tube gear like the Eddie Current stuff..
 
I really don't know. Making the leap from mid tier to TOTL is hard,
 
The Hugo is intriguing, but for some reason I want to stick with a desktop amp/dac. The Burson was an excellent pairing and I agree with many of the reviews, but I also agree with Somphon, as there was nothing 'exciting' about the burson sound. It was more resolving than the wa22, had tight bass, but lacked extension and I felt it had almost no sub-bass with the LCD-3.
 
And I want the LCD-3 specifically for bass heavy music.

 

[kkcc]

Hey there, I know tube rolling might make the wa22, more resolving, the stock tubes with the LCD-3f were very dark sounding, to the point that it was blurry and sluggish. I guess Balanced with a really good DAC I could consider getting the wa22 with upgrade  tubes, but then I feel at that price, I would rather get some really good tube gear like the Eddie Current stuff..

I really don't know. Making the leap from mid tier to TOTL is hard,

The Hugo is intriguing, but for some reason I want to stick with a desktop amp/dac. The Burson was an excellent pairing and I agree with many of the reviews, but I also agree with Somphon, as there was nothing 'exciting' about the burson sound. It was more resolving than the wa22, had tight bass, but lacked extension and I felt it had almost no sub-bass with the LCD-3.

And I want the LCD-3 specifically for bass heavy music.

re wa22, get the VT231 driver tubes for best transparency, and the TS5998/chatham2399 power tubes for subbass (or TS7236 if you prefer very tight and fast bass that is less impactful). Best pairing for the LCD3 imo. Probably looking at $250 extra for both pairs via eBay or the sale forum here.

 

[Bellasperson]

TS5998/VT231(Ken Rad) would be my choice as well.

 

[Xecuter]

re wa22, get the VT231 driver tubes for best transparency, and the TS5998/chatham2399 power tubes for subbass (or TS7236 if you prefer very tight and fast bass that is less impactful). Best pairing for the LCD3 imo. Probably looking at $250 extra for both pairs via eBay or the sale forum here.

Hi,
 
Thank you for answering my question! I think the wa22 could perform pretty damn well, but I managed to extend my budget and am now looking at the Abyss, I will probably get the LCD-3 later as they are some very natural sounding headphones, it's just that the 3f just seems a bit too dark sounding for me, almost muffled. It is a very different sound, and I liked it. But I preferred the Abyss. I was recommended more powerful amps than the wa22. So I'm considering the Eddie current 445 or Apex teton/(maybe the pinnacle) and would like to audition the GSX DACT.
 
I think the wa22 is a thing of beauty, however I did notice relativey high noise floor (stock tubes, with burson 9018 dac, first time hearing a true tube amp).