[pcg33k]

Hi,

I switched from the 32Ω Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro to the Sennheiser HD 6XX because I can't stand the sibilance and the high frequency peaks produced by it.
The DT 770 Pro's mids are recessed but it is bearable when compared to its highs.
Its mid-bass and sub-bass are perfectly fine for me despite many people complained the bass is too strong on the DT 770 Pro. Perhaps they are referring to the 80Ω version?
Basically my impression of the DT 770 is like listening to an earpiece with a sub. (Just kidding. It's not that bad but you know what I mean.)

On the other hand, the high frequencies produced by the HD 6XX is detailed and smooth and I don't find them to be "veiled" or "rolled-off" like others said.
While HD 6XX is open-back, the sound stage really isn't any better than the DT 770 Pro but it won't bother me too much.
However, the mid-bass of the HD 6XX is very bloated, muddy, overly punchy, and leaks into the mids.
I have found similar complaints from other members on Head-Fi.
Someone in that post mentioned even the HD 600, considered as Sennheiser's most neutral headphones, suffer from the same bloated mid-bass issue.

I prefer the frequency response to be as neutral as possible and would like the bass of the HD 6XX to be tight and controlled like on the DT 770 Pro.
Better sound stage would be nice to have, too.
I mostly listen to Classic Rock and Classical and the bloated mid-bass affects both genres.
The source audio files I used are lossless ripped by EAC and sometimes Hi-Res if that matters.
I will have to admit I am currently powering the headphones with laptops and smartphones but the volume is fine for me.
In fact, I listen at low volumes most of the time. I am looking for a headphone amp to improve the sound, not because I am seeking for high SPLs.

Are there any recommended Amps or DAC/Amp combos that could improve the mid-bass of the HD 6XX?
Both portable or desktop models will work for me.
If you don't think headphone amps will help, what are the recommended headphones based on my preference?

Thanks in advance!

 

[bland125]

I don't own the 6XX, I have the close enough 58X and I don't think you can fix the mid bass you don't like with a DAC or Amp unless its frequency response is weird/defective (I mean a dac or amp FR should be totally flat), or has onboard EQ (RME ADI-2) or tone controls (That's quite rare). You can try DSP, probably easier to just see if you can even make then sound more to your liking.

If I was in your position, I would look into getting a different set of cans really.

 

[pcg33k]

I don't own the 6XX, I have the close enough 58X and I don't think you can fix the mid bass you don't like with a DAC or Amp unless its frequency response is weird/defective (I mean a dac or amp FR should be totally flat), or has onboard EQ (RME ADI-2) or tone controls (That's quite rare). You can try DSP, probably easier to just see if you can even make then sound more to your liking.

If I was in your position, I would look into getting a different set of cans really.

That's what I thought. I agreed the FR of DACs and Amps should be totally flat.
I raised the question because I've seen some people on the Internet said the muddy mid-bass is caused by an under-powered amp such as driving the headphones directly from a computer motherboard. I am skeptical of this theory but I still wanted to confirm.
I am more of a "Purist" so I will not consider the DSP options.
Thanks for your input!

 

[bland125]

Yeah, HD6XX are not meant to be powered off laptops or phones directly. I missed that from your first post, my bad.

300ohms it likely too much for their cheap onboard audio unless you have some high end stuff. You could certainly try a recommended DAC/amp to see if it fixes the issue you have.

Even if it doesn't totally fix your HD6XX issues, a proper DAC/amp sounds like your best option right now still. A simple Zen Dac would be a good start.

 

[TS0711]

Need more info...

whats your budget and source, for example? I highly recommend you go with a balanced set-up but single ended will work too. Google is your friend. ifi just came out with a amp tailored to the 6xx, and and a matching dac for about 500 usd (drop). For under $200 you can get their hip dac, and from experience I can tell you it tightens the bass nicely using my 6xx with balanced cables. I use the xduoo X2 as a source but it drives the 6xx nicely in balanced mode, and it's also under $200. My personal favorite it a good multi bit dac with the Schiit Jotunheim. There's plenty of info out there and lots of products to look into.

Have fun.

 

[megabigeye]

I raised the question because I've seen some people on the Internet said the muddy mid-bass is caused by an under-powered amp such as driving the headphones directly from a computer motherboard. I am skeptical of this theory but I still wanted to confirm.

Generally I agree with your skepticism and usually recommend that if it's loud enough, then it's enough power. However, I have a few guesses as to what's going wrong: 1) the HD 650's impedance is not actually 300Ω; it actually ranges from 300Ω up to about 500Ω at 100Hz (try googling "HD 650 impedance curve" for a visual). An amp might make sufficient power at 300Ω, but not at 500Ω. This would probably cause the HD 650 to sound thin in the bass. 2) if an amp has audible THD at its max power levels, it might be noticeable as the amp struggles with higher impedances.
I used to have a FiiO E11 that certainly got loud enough with the HD 650, but the bass was just horrible. I remember thinking it sounded like a dog farting into a tin can.
The good news is that the HD 650/6XX does not require tons of power to sound good or to get painfully loud. Even plugging it into a Mac laptop or decent smartphone should give you a pretty good idea of what the headphones should sound like. I've happily used a 2014 MacBook Air and a Samsung Galaxy S9. Power and voltage are not huge concerns.

The other option, of course, is that you just don't like the headphones.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

On the other hand, the high frequencies produced by the HD 6XX is detailed and smooth and I don't find them to be "veiled" or "rolled-off" like others said.
While HD 6XX is open-back, the sound stage really isn't any better than the DT 770 Pro but it won't bother me too much.
However, the mid-bass of the HD 6XX is very bloated, muddy, overly punchy, and leaks into the mids.
I have found similar complaints from other members on Head-Fi.
Someone in that post mentioned even the HD 600, considered as Sennheiser's most neutral headphones, suffer from the same bloated mid-bass issue.

Wear it loose so the pads don't compress too much making them too dense while positioning the drivers too close to your ears. Fully extend the metal arms then bend them in the other direction at the center and near the gimbals, holding for 10secs at each point, and then cycling through them until you get a looser fit more akin to how a K701 feels on the head.

Also push them forward with the rear of the pads pushing your earlobes forward very gently.

I have even thicker angled pads on my HD600 and still adjusted the headband. Traded the overdone upper bass to get the bottom of the bass range more audible.

I prefer the frequency response to be as neutral as possible and would like the bass of the HD 6XX to be tight and controlled like on the DT 770 Pro.

Kinda weird, the HD600 tends to be more controlled vs the boosted bass on the DT770.

If by "more controlled" you're confusing the looser bass on an HD6xx series worn too tight with the harder slam on the DT770, well, loosening it won't help. It will make the bass tighter, but not having that boost means you don't get that "slam" either.

It's kind of like the difference between an HT system with a huge 12in sub playing music vs a pure 2ch system with tower speakers using twin 6in drivers on each side or an 8in driver on each side. The bass can be loose on both, except at best maybe it's a time alignment or bass trap issue on the first and repositioning the sub might mean you can keep its gain up so you still get that kick to the chest; on the latter, if you get a cleaner, more powerful amp, it won't boost the bass, it just makes each note more distinct. That can sound louder and clearer to some people but in terms of that kick to the chest sensation there won't be any difference other than how much easier it is to perceive if what you hear has the same beat as what you feel.

Better sound stage would be nice to have, too.

Angled pads and Crossfeed at best just pushed the cymbals and other percussion backward a tiny bit.

I mostly listen to Classic Rock and Classical and the bloated mid-bass affects both genres.

Mine has no problems keeping up with double pedals and other fast bass and drum notes on prog metal and symphonic metal.

I will have to admit I am currently powering the headphones with laptops and smartphones but the volume is fine for me.
In fact, I listen at low volumes most of the time. I am looking for a headphone amp to improve the sound, not because I am seeking for high SPLs.

My modded HD600 has bloated, slam-deficient bass off my SGS3, which I was forced to do when my amp broke. Have not tried it stock as I did not have any stock earpads since 2015.

Are there any recommended Amps or DAC/Amp combos that could improve the mid-bass of the HD 6XX?
Both portable or desktop models will work for me.

I use the Meier Cantate.2 so maybe go with the Meier Jazz FF and an ODAC or Modi3.

If you don't think headphone amps will help, what are the recommended headphones based on my preference?

Get the amp and DAC first, that way if you still don't like the result, you have something to drive practically anything else you might try.

Maybe an Audeze LCD-2F.

 

[pcg33k]

Wear it loose so the pads don't compress too much making them too dense while positioning the drivers too close to your ears. Fully extend the metal arms then bend them in the other direction at the center and near the gimbals, holding for 10secs at each point, and then cycling through them until you get a looser fit more akin to how a K701 feels on the head.

Also push them forward with the rear of the pads pushing your earlobes forward very gently.

I have even thicker angled pads on my HD600 and still adjusted the headband. Traded the overdone upper bass to get the bottom of the bass range more audible.

Thanks a lot for the tips!

Kinda weird, the HD600 tends to be more controlled vs the boosted bass on the DT770.

I believe the HD 6XX has the same sound signature as the HD 650, which sounds different than the HD 600 you are used to.
From what I've read, HD 600s are generally considered more neutral than HD 650s and the HD 650 does have boosted bass.
Also, note that the 32Ω version of the DT 770 Pro comes with leather ear pads instead of the standard velour ear pads used in other versions which might affect the sound signature.
I have read that the DT 770 Pros have boosted bass all over the Internet but I really don't feel it that way.
The bass on my 32Ω DT 770 Pro is deep and present but is not "boomy" and will not bleed into the mids unlike my HD 6XX.

 

[kimdeug]

The bass will be more accentuated if:

1. Install Drop full leather earpads on 6XX - Link:
https://drop.com/buy/drop-earpads-for-hd6xx-and-hd58x

2. Next get the powerful enough amp for 6XX
3. Install the foam under outside grill (like 58X)
4. Use Accentuation rings

 

[ProtegeManiac]

I believe the HD 6XX has the same sound signature as the HD 650, which sounds different than the HD 600 you are used to.
From what I've read, HD 600s are generally considered more neutral than HD 650s and the HD 650 does have boosted bass.

1. You still mentioned reading about the problem with its bass bleeding into the midbass as a thing on the HD600.

2. I've tried many HD650s at varying earpad wear as well as swapping in what I have. The main difference between the HD600 and the HD650 is not as immediately apparent as it seems, unless you have the HD600 run that has a peak at around 3500hz or you're not swapping earpads; or when both have worn earpads because worn earpads on that run of HD600s makes that peak worse while the HD650 more audibly boosts the already boosted low end more than the weaker boost at the top end; or you run them with some of variable, like the HD650 having more worn pads or the HD600 has newer pads if not worn looser. Also tried the DT770 back to back with both Sennheisers.

The most likely variable is how much looser I wear headphones since I don't really expect to be able to headbang on these. I bend the gimbals on Beyers inward after widening the top (ie loosen at the headband, bend in the corners so they can stay on barring headbangs).

3. I have -2dB at 3500hz, Q1.0, and low shelf +2dB at 50hz, Q1.4 on Neutron. It's even harder to distinguish from an HD650 with the EQ set to flat and using the same earpads and set to the same clamp force. On top of the earpads, yes, they do still have a little bit of that problem of bleeding into the midbass when the earpads are worn down far enough or worn tight enough to compress the pads.

Also, note that the 32Ω version of the DT 770 Pro comes with leather ear pads instead of the standard velour ear pads used in other versions which might affect the sound signature.
I have read that the DT 770 Pros have boosted bass all over the Internet but I really don't feel it that way.
The bass on my 32Ω DT 770 Pro is deep and present but is not "boomy" and will not bleed into the mids unlike my HD 6XX.

Pads didn't drastically alter the 250ohm to for me. If anything it could go either way on the 32ohm since the lower impedance could make it a problem for whatever you plugged them into since lower nominal load impedance can be a problem with a high output impedance.

Basically like how my HD600 sounds fine out of my NAD 304 and Marantz CD60, but the SR225 can sound horrible on both. But where the SR225 can sound tinny since they're not starting off with a lot of bass (plus a fair bit of treble), the trimming effect could also be happening with your Beyers but given they have a lot more bass to start with, losing some of it results in cleaner bass. Not so when I drive it with my Meier Cantate.2 and worse if I wear them too tight - as clean as the signal is if it's getting that much bass output the sound will have some kind of distortion ie imbalance (not necessarily the driver warping while pumping).

Now whatever you plug them into might lose a fair bit of damping factor but with your 300ohm Sennheisers even if that's relatively less of a problem for damping factor there's the other problem of giving it enough clean power.

That being said before you buy an amp try adjusting the fit first.

 

[gooeyrich]

Sounds like a problem for JDS Atom amp/dac stack or Schiit Magni/Modi stack.

 

[iFi audio]

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