ngd3
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Any access to the Sony NW-ZX50x?
That's the new Android one, curious if you think it's as good as their last gen
Aminus hates everything (Or, Aminus rants and reviews stuff)
- Thread starter aminus
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Any access to the Sony NW-ZX50x?
That's the new Android one, curious if you think it's as good as their last gen
I’ve heard it. I think it’s an improvement to the ZX300 tonally (sounds uncannily similar to a 1A), though it retains the same middling technical ability. A fair tradeoff for people who want something that sounds like the 1A but demand streaming.
james444
Headphoneus Supremus
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I can't compare to the ER2SE/XR, since I haven't heard them (not a fan of Etys). The modded Passion and FD01 (= FDX1) are currently my favorite and most frequently used IEMs. The FDX1 has a bit more bass punch and that upper mids / lower treble bump, which I would call a "fun" take on neutral. The Passion sounds more monitor-like with less deviation from DF-neutral. I don't think either of them has a significant upper hand over the other in technical ability, but two of my friends who've heard both ended up preferring the Passion.
Note that my Passion is fully modded though, i.e. without the high treble peak >10 kHz (the gray line in the graph). This mod is more complex than the simple strip of mp-tape I mentioned, since you need to remove the nozzle mesh, which is prone to disintegrating in the process (so potentially non-reversible).
Soundstage is pretty much on par with the FDX1 too, and I really can't tell you much more about the Passion other than the fact that most of what @aminus said about the Minor applies to the Passion as well, and that it's a damn fine sounding IEM in a very unobtrusive and understated way.
Final Audio A8000:
Beryllium. If any material in DD design were a meme, it’d be beryllium. After the release of Focal’s Utopia it’s been hailed as a wonder material for diaphragm design. Many have tried to replicate this, to varying degrees of success. Final jumping on this bandwagon is, frankly, odd. The Japanese company has always been an oddball in IEM design, frequently prioritizing tonality (and by tonality I mean midrange tonality, and by midrange tonality I mean female vocals) over quite literally everything else. Final’s IEMs have quite a bit of a reputation for poor technical ability, haziness, and generally being real underwhelming for the price. That is, unless you listen to Japanese female vocals, otherwise known as weeb music, in which case you find yourself in Final’s target market.
So, one might ask, what do weeb vocals and beryllium DDs have in common? Well... I’m equally as perplexed. Beryllium DDs are prized for their speed and extremely high technical ability, yet neither of these are Final’s specialties. One questions just how much performance Final will be able to milk out of such a driver.
The answer is not a lot.
The first thing that sticks out to me with the A8000 is the flabby, loose bass. It’s got this pervasive and annoying warmth to it that doesn’t really help either. Almost like a timbral coloration similar to the CE-5, but borderline obnoxious instead of being quite nice with the right music. There’s also a really odd lack of slam to it, reminiscent of the Tanchjim Oxygen. Which is just plain odd, because it’s not even like the A8000 lacks in bass quantity. I’d argue it has too much midbass, even. It just sounds weak and lacking gravitas. Disappointing for a dynamic driver, nevermind a beryllium one.
The second thing that sticks out is the unnervingly recessed lower mids and boosted upper mids. Almost like the IEX-1 but without having gone off the deep end. Well, barely, at least. Shrill is a pretty apt descriptor here, with lead guitar and synth lines often being just plain thin and rough. Male vocals sound prepubescent at times. I can almost sort of tell what Final was going for here, this ultra-clarity super refined sort of sound. Except you can’t just conjure clarity out of thin air by recessing the lower mids to oblivion and boosting the upper mids to the point of unlistenability. It just doesn’t work like that. Everything sounds unnaturally lean and sucked out.
Treble response on the A8000 is characterized by some grit in the lower-mid treble followed by a pretty extreme rolloff. In other words, you get stick impact and cymbal crash... and not much else. Cymbal decay feels cut short and neutered, and crashes on higher pitched cymbals often feel suppressed. But at the same time, the cymbal crash that is present is often slightly harsh, and sibilance from vocals isn’t uncommon either. This treble response is just cut and dry bad, no matter how you look at it.
And it’s not even like the A8000 has the technical chops to justify its existence. Textural rendering is mediocre on a good day, and nonexistent on a normal one thanks to the horrifically recessed lower midrange. Staging is often congested and small, which is really odd considering the advertised acoustic chambering on it. Dynamics are compressed and lack punch. I struggle to write much here because the A8000 simply doesn’t have much to offer. It’s just odd sounding and lacks the resolve to rise above its tonal quirks.
What this exercise goes to show is that hype and showmanship is, well, hype and showmanship. There was never really any substance behind the A8000. Beryllium or not, it’s still tuned to Final’s target market, and that market excludes the vast majority of people. At the end of the day, implementation trumps technology, and not even the greatest of miracle materials can save a badly, or just oddly tuned transducer.
All listening was done out of the WM1A’s 3.5mm jack.
As said before, this IEM is tuned for certain people, and I’m not one of them. Most (normal) people won’t be either. And it’s for that reason that I’d stay away from the A8000.
Score: 3/10
Beryllium. If any material in DD design were a meme, it’d be beryllium. After the release of Focal’s Utopia it’s been hailed as a wonder material for diaphragm design. Many have tried to replicate this, to varying degrees of success. Final jumping on this bandwagon is, frankly, odd. The Japanese company has always been an oddball in IEM design, frequently prioritizing tonality (and by tonality I mean midrange tonality, and by midrange tonality I mean female vocals) over quite literally everything else. Final’s IEMs have quite a bit of a reputation for poor technical ability, haziness, and generally being real underwhelming for the price. That is, unless you listen to Japanese female vocals, otherwise known as weeb music, in which case you find yourself in Final’s target market.
So, one might ask, what do weeb vocals and beryllium DDs have in common? Well... I’m equally as perplexed. Beryllium DDs are prized for their speed and extremely high technical ability, yet neither of these are Final’s specialties. One questions just how much performance Final will be able to milk out of such a driver.
The answer is not a lot.
The first thing that sticks out to me with the A8000 is the flabby, loose bass. It’s got this pervasive and annoying warmth to it that doesn’t really help either. Almost like a timbral coloration similar to the CE-5, but borderline obnoxious instead of being quite nice with the right music. There’s also a really odd lack of slam to it, reminiscent of the Tanchjim Oxygen. Which is just plain odd, because it’s not even like the A8000 lacks in bass quantity. I’d argue it has too much midbass, even. It just sounds weak and lacking gravitas. Disappointing for a dynamic driver, nevermind a beryllium one.
The second thing that sticks out is the unnervingly recessed lower mids and boosted upper mids. Almost like the IEX-1 but without having gone off the deep end. Well, barely, at least. Shrill is a pretty apt descriptor here, with lead guitar and synth lines often being just plain thin and rough. Male vocals sound prepubescent at times. I can almost sort of tell what Final was going for here, this ultra-clarity super refined sort of sound. Except you can’t just conjure clarity out of thin air by recessing the lower mids to oblivion and boosting the upper mids to the point of unlistenability. It just doesn’t work like that. Everything sounds unnaturally lean and sucked out.
Treble response on the A8000 is characterized by some grit in the lower-mid treble followed by a pretty extreme rolloff. In other words, you get stick impact and cymbal crash... and not much else. Cymbal decay feels cut short and neutered, and crashes on higher pitched cymbals often feel suppressed. But at the same time, the cymbal crash that is present is often slightly harsh, and sibilance from vocals isn’t uncommon either. This treble response is just cut and dry bad, no matter how you look at it.
And it’s not even like the A8000 has the technical chops to justify its existence. Textural rendering is mediocre on a good day, and nonexistent on a normal one thanks to the horrifically recessed lower midrange. Staging is often congested and small, which is really odd considering the advertised acoustic chambering on it. Dynamics are compressed and lack punch. I struggle to write much here because the A8000 simply doesn’t have much to offer. It’s just odd sounding and lacks the resolve to rise above its tonal quirks.
What this exercise goes to show is that hype and showmanship is, well, hype and showmanship. There was never really any substance behind the A8000. Beryllium or not, it’s still tuned to Final’s target market, and that market excludes the vast majority of people. At the end of the day, implementation trumps technology, and not even the greatest of miracle materials can save a badly, or just oddly tuned transducer.
All listening was done out of the WM1A’s 3.5mm jack.
As said before, this IEM is tuned for certain people, and I’m not one of them. Most (normal) people won’t be either. And it’s for that reason that I’d stay away from the A8000.
Score: 3/10
3/10 wow I want this iem very good note thx
TooPoorForHiFi
Previously known as MidNighTempest
REQUEST
Unique Melody MEST
Dunu DK-2001 // Blessing 2 // Comparison
As always appreciate the work.
Unique Melody MEST
Dunu DK-2001 // Blessing 2 // Comparison
As always appreciate the work.
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deafdoorknob
1000+ Head-Fier
@aminus have a listen to Canal Works U77 and U73 should you find the opportunity. I had a brief audition over the weekend, not enough to draw any meaningful conclusion, brief impressions were largely positive U77 being a good all rounder, and U73 had some of the hardest hitting bass from a BA only iem i have heard, considering that i was auditioning the U12t and Z1R just before hand... but idk if it was just the shock of it lol.
Btw... in search of an iem for post rock, ambient electronica, post punk, modern classical (tortoise, PIL, Mogwai, Max Richter, Nils Frahm, Sigor Ros, Burial, Squarepusher, the XX, 70s Miles Davis, ECM jazz etc) i like how U12t portrays space, but perhaps because of that, it lacks a certain density or intensity when it comes to pedal effects... for the lack of a better word, it lacks *menace*/bite, any suggestions?
Btw... in search of an iem for post rock, ambient electronica, post punk, modern classical (tortoise, PIL, Mogwai, Max Richter, Nils Frahm, Sigor Ros, Burial, Squarepusher, the XX, 70s Miles Davis, ECM jazz etc) i like how U12t portrays space, but perhaps because of that, it lacks a certain density or intensity when it comes to pedal effects... for the lack of a better word, it lacks *menace*/bite, any suggestions?
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REQUEST
Get well soon mate.
Get well soon mate.
Man I have no idea where I’d find any of those things. To my knowledge B2 is not coming to Singapore and Dunu have a nonexistent presence here. UM is a crapshoot, though I suppose less of one than Dunu or Moondrop. We’ll see.
I’ve heard the U77/L77 and U72. U77 is pretty damn good with rock music and the like, but it fell flat fast with classical stuff. It’s simply too peaky and sharp. Someone I know calls it a “one trick pony” and I’m inclined to agree. I still like it though, but maybe not enough to cover it in depth.
As for the U73, I haven’t heard it. I’ve heard impressions from friends but I refrain from making comments on stuff I haven’t personally heard.
I can interpret your “lack of menace/bite” and “lack of density” in two ways:
1. The first is a lack of transient sharpness in the midrange. This I agree with and noted down in my U12t review - I interpreted it as a pleasant timbre but can absolutely see why the inverse would apply.
2. The second is a lack of “note weight”. This is a concept from Crin which I’ve never really understood, so I can’t quite help you there.
The former would essentially need to be resolved with a wholly different IEM. Something like a Viento or a Z1R would be much sharper in transients, but you lose some stuff as well. They don’t really sound the same as the U12t, and ultimately they fall behind in stuff like dynamics where the U12t is next to unbeatable. And those two are just examples - this applies to more or less everything else on the market. If you want to trade something for added transient sharpness, you need to decide exactly what you’re trading it for, and from there you can make a move.
If it’s the latter, then one thing you could try is purchasing one of the solid core modules from 64 by buying it with their custom earplugs. You’re not exactly supposed to use it with their IEMs, but hey, it fits. It won’t necessarily be a major change, but it might be just enough for you.
I’ve been mostly fine-ish for the last week or two outside of a mild cough. At the moment reviews have slowed down for several reasons:
1. Staying indoors due to corona. I have no intention of catching airborne AIDS now or anytime soon.
2. Lack of much new stuff to review. 2020 has been kinda slow, and more or less nothing new has been announced. I know I have to cover stuff like the S8 and the Sarda and a few other things but backtracking stuff I’ve already heard (but not enough to really write on) doesn’t motivate me much.
3. Lack of general interest in portable audio. I’m working more on my desktop setup these days. The fact that it doesn’t require me to leave the house to do is a bonus because of point 1.
So yeah, part of the reasons are of my own choosing and part of them are circumstantial. In either case, I am working on one review that’s half-finished from the same session that I listened to the A8000 in. Haven’t had the time to edit and polish it, but it’ll come out eventually. And sooner or later I will get around to reviewing the stuff I’ve promised to. I just can’t say when.
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Aminus Rants: Engagement factor, or “what do you mean by ‘it’s boring?’”
Steel yourselves, today we’re getting into deep audiophool territory. Full subjectivist, unmeasurable, unsubstantiated claims. The horror.
In any case, the subject matter of “engagement factor” is, at best, a tricky and confusing one. It’s not 100% clear, even in my own eyes, what actually causes engagement factor. It’s more or less a case of “enjoying the music” or “not enjoying the music”. This is, in the essence, a true blue intangible. Utterly unmeasurable and borderline undefinable. There is no consistent test track that tells you about engagement factor the way one could tell you about how dynamic a transducer is, or how wide it stages. There is no real objective notion of what it could represent or how one might attempt to measure it. It’s just sort of... there. And yet it’s crucially important to sound reproduction. It’s the line that makes me pay attention to what I’m hearing, or just not care about it. Placebo? Maybe. But I don’t see a consistent influencing link (say, price or popularity) between stuff that’s engaging. It seems to choose the transducer, rather than the transducer choosing it.
Oh yeah, and it’s not limited to transducers either. It applies to sources too. Some amplifiers and DACs sound unbelievably boring, even with an amazing transducer plugged into them. I would know, I’ve owned a couple and heard many more. Hell, some recordings are more microdynamic than others. I know of plenty of masterings of a given album that sound flat and dull for no discernible reason, and others of the same recording that just sound so damn good for reasons beyond tonal balance. Anyone familiar with older jazz recordings or seminal rock albums might know what I’m talking about. People freak out over that 2013 Platinum SHM-CD of A Love Supreme for a reason.
Now that we’ve probably chased away any stringent diehard objectivist who may have been reading this (or perhaps attracted their ire and a small flamewar), let’s get down to the nitty gritty. I personally think that engagement factor (otherwise known as plankton in certain circles) mostly, or partially comes down to properly reproducing microdynamics (small fluctuations in volume as opposed to large changes). Microdynamics is something I talk about rarely, mostly because it’s something more felt than heard. I cannot pull out one of my classical tracks to brute force test it and compare it to something else like I can with macrodynamics (ie. traditional dynamic swings). Microdynamics requires extended listening and focus to really capture, at least for me. And even then, it comes down to more of a gut feeling than something I can really state definitively. I avoid wishy-washiness in my writing (keeping it real, as some might say) and prefer not to delve into such territory. But denying or ignoring its existence seems feels dishonest. Feels like I’m not doing my full job as someone attempting to translate the audio experience into textual form. Hence I am forced to recognize how absolutely crucial it is, no matter how difficult it is to explain or qualify.
So how does this tie into engagement factor? Simply put, I find that proper microdynamic reproduction tends to have more of a “realism” factor to it, beyond just staging expansively or sounding tonally correct. Subtle nuances are nailed, lead parts have more complexity and depth to them, and stuff sounds alive. It sounds absolutely audiphoolish and placebo-based, I know. But it genuinely does seem to be a phenomenon. I find it difficult to explain otherwise why certain transducers sound more realistic and more interesting than others.
Examples of stuff I don’t think have good engagement factor (and in turn good microdynamics) include the InEar PP8 and PMX, Vision Ears’ Erlkönig, and Meze’s Rai Penta. You may have noticed that all of those transducers I have called “dead” or “boring” in some shape or form. In the past, I attributed this to macrodynamics, or just dynamics in general. I’ve slowly began to realize, however, that simply being dynamic does not equate to being engaging. Being slightly weak in macrodynamics does not equate to being unengaging either. My understanding of it has slowly shifted to recognizing that there’s another factor, related to dynamics, but not entirely the same as sheer macrodynamic ability. This is where the idea of microdynamics being the root cause comes from.
It doesn’t take much thinking to recognize this isn’t an entirely original idea. Nor will I pretend that it is one. It’s simply a conclusion I find myself agreeing with based on my own experiences. Does this introduce the potential element of placebo? Absolutely. Everything about this could just be me fooling myself into bullcrap. But I don’t think it is. Silly me for having an unsubstantiated hunch.
One might ask, at this point, what the point of all of this is? Why the need for a dedicated rant instead of a posthumous inclusion into the definitions article? It’s more or less a look into an often ignored aspect of sound reproduction, and a stark reminder that we are further away from understanding sound and psychoacoustics than we think we are. I would not consider the objectivist viewpoint to be truly complete until the day that it is able to quantify such subjective and emotional aspects of sound such as this, and other less touchy ones like staging or macrodynamics. Who knows when that will happen, if ever.
Having said this, the question shifts to “why should I care”? And the answer is that maybe you shouldn’t. If you don’t feel like your gear is uninteresting, or boring, then maybe you should just keep enjoying it. Quite frankly, too many people are more interested in introducing unnecessary audio nervosa into their lives than they are in, you know, listening to music. If one is satisfied, they need not FOMO over what could be. And some people are straight up incapable of hearing finer aspects of sound reproduction, much less caring about it. There genuinely do seem to be people that are incapable of hearing nuances in sound like dynamics or transients, or changes in sources and amplifiers or what have you. I can’t hear the difference between normal vs. inverted absolute polarity, for example, but some people can. And that’s fine. Not only is that money saved, it means having to care less about this stuff.
I hope that this read has been an interesting and insightful look into a rarely discussed subject in audio and how it may correlate to the listening experience. And that may help to explain some of my listening processes and perceptions as a writer.
Steel yourselves, today we’re getting into deep audiophool territory. Full subjectivist, unmeasurable, unsubstantiated claims. The horror.
In any case, the subject matter of “engagement factor” is, at best, a tricky and confusing one. It’s not 100% clear, even in my own eyes, what actually causes engagement factor. It’s more or less a case of “enjoying the music” or “not enjoying the music”. This is, in the essence, a true blue intangible. Utterly unmeasurable and borderline undefinable. There is no consistent test track that tells you about engagement factor the way one could tell you about how dynamic a transducer is, or how wide it stages. There is no real objective notion of what it could represent or how one might attempt to measure it. It’s just sort of... there. And yet it’s crucially important to sound reproduction. It’s the line that makes me pay attention to what I’m hearing, or just not care about it. Placebo? Maybe. But I don’t see a consistent influencing link (say, price or popularity) between stuff that’s engaging. It seems to choose the transducer, rather than the transducer choosing it.
Oh yeah, and it’s not limited to transducers either. It applies to sources too. Some amplifiers and DACs sound unbelievably boring, even with an amazing transducer plugged into them. I would know, I’ve owned a couple and heard many more. Hell, some recordings are more microdynamic than others. I know of plenty of masterings of a given album that sound flat and dull for no discernible reason, and others of the same recording that just sound so damn good for reasons beyond tonal balance. Anyone familiar with older jazz recordings or seminal rock albums might know what I’m talking about. People freak out over that 2013 Platinum SHM-CD of A Love Supreme for a reason.
Now that we’ve probably chased away any stringent diehard objectivist who may have been reading this (or perhaps attracted their ire and a small flamewar), let’s get down to the nitty gritty. I personally think that engagement factor (otherwise known as plankton in certain circles) mostly, or partially comes down to properly reproducing microdynamics (small fluctuations in volume as opposed to large changes). Microdynamics is something I talk about rarely, mostly because it’s something more felt than heard. I cannot pull out one of my classical tracks to brute force test it and compare it to something else like I can with macrodynamics (ie. traditional dynamic swings). Microdynamics requires extended listening and focus to really capture, at least for me. And even then, it comes down to more of a gut feeling than something I can really state definitively. I avoid wishy-washiness in my writing (keeping it real, as some might say) and prefer not to delve into such territory. But denying or ignoring its existence seems feels dishonest. Feels like I’m not doing my full job as someone attempting to translate the audio experience into textual form. Hence I am forced to recognize how absolutely crucial it is, no matter how difficult it is to explain or qualify.
So how does this tie into engagement factor? Simply put, I find that proper microdynamic reproduction tends to have more of a “realism” factor to it, beyond just staging expansively or sounding tonally correct. Subtle nuances are nailed, lead parts have more complexity and depth to them, and stuff sounds alive. It sounds absolutely audiphoolish and placebo-based, I know. But it genuinely does seem to be a phenomenon. I find it difficult to explain otherwise why certain transducers sound more realistic and more interesting than others.
Examples of stuff I don’t think have good engagement factor (and in turn good microdynamics) include the InEar PP8 and PMX, Vision Ears’ Erlkönig, and Meze’s Rai Penta. You may have noticed that all of those transducers I have called “dead” or “boring” in some shape or form. In the past, I attributed this to macrodynamics, or just dynamics in general. I’ve slowly began to realize, however, that simply being dynamic does not equate to being engaging. Being slightly weak in macrodynamics does not equate to being unengaging either. My understanding of it has slowly shifted to recognizing that there’s another factor, related to dynamics, but not entirely the same as sheer macrodynamic ability. This is where the idea of microdynamics being the root cause comes from.
It doesn’t take much thinking to recognize this isn’t an entirely original idea. Nor will I pretend that it is one. It’s simply a conclusion I find myself agreeing with based on my own experiences. Does this introduce the potential element of placebo? Absolutely. Everything about this could just be me fooling myself into bullcrap. But I don’t think it is. Silly me for having an unsubstantiated hunch.
One might ask, at this point, what the point of all of this is? Why the need for a dedicated rant instead of a posthumous inclusion into the definitions article? It’s more or less a look into an often ignored aspect of sound reproduction, and a stark reminder that we are further away from understanding sound and psychoacoustics than we think we are. I would not consider the objectivist viewpoint to be truly complete until the day that it is able to quantify such subjective and emotional aspects of sound such as this, and other less touchy ones like staging or macrodynamics. Who knows when that will happen, if ever.
Having said this, the question shifts to “why should I care”? And the answer is that maybe you shouldn’t. If you don’t feel like your gear is uninteresting, or boring, then maybe you should just keep enjoying it. Quite frankly, too many people are more interested in introducing unnecessary audio nervosa into their lives than they are in, you know, listening to music. If one is satisfied, they need not FOMO over what could be. And some people are straight up incapable of hearing finer aspects of sound reproduction, much less caring about it. There genuinely do seem to be people that are incapable of hearing nuances in sound like dynamics or transients, or changes in sources and amplifiers or what have you. I can’t hear the difference between normal vs. inverted absolute polarity, for example, but some people can. And that’s fine. Not only is that money saved, it means having to care less about this stuff.
I hope that this read has been an interesting and insightful look into a rarely discussed subject in audio and how it may correlate to the listening experience. And that may help to explain some of my listening processes and perceptions as a writer.
RelentlesSausage
New Head-Fier
Hey animus. I'm looking for a ciem that's totl and the two that seem like the best for what I like in a iem is the Hidition Viento B and A12t. Out of these two iems which would you recommend?
Depends entirely on preferences. A12t is bassy, dark-ish (if not just straight up dark), dynamic, lower mid focused. Viento is lean, upper mid forward, aggressive (too much so for a lot of people), textured. They are fairly opposite tonally, but have similar things going on in each.
briant4pres
100+ Head-Fier
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I really like the er2xr, where do I go from hear? I want Moar soundstage, bass texture and sparkle
Ier m9 and z1r I was looking at. Z1r seems like it might be too v shaped for me
Ier m9 and z1r I was looking at. Z1r seems like it might be too v shaped for me
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