[DoYouRight]

music player daemon

 

[Currawong]

Just some thoughts:

Quote:

Originally Posted by tricka /img/forum/go_quote.gif 2. the iLok is not something I want to deal with - iLok "insurance" extortionate;

I can see why this is in use, as the software would be "cracked" in short order without the iLok and become freely available warez.
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3. the GUI is intrusive at least on the mini for such simple controls;

I thought you could hide Amarra and use iTunes controls?
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4. the 24/96 limit on the mini is unacceptable - I fail to see why I should shell out another $500 for 24/192;

Well, to use 24/192 you need expensive hardware. I guess they wanted to offer it to regular audiophiles who just wanted the sound improvements without a few thousand dollars worth of outlay. There isn't a lot of music available at 24/192 anyway, and arguably no benefit to it.
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5. Amarra would crash mid AIFF stream for no apparent reason - this was a particular problem with a wireless NAS (apparently it does not particularly like the file path's of a NAS in general);

It only supports music that is on local volumes, so that is no surprise.
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6. You are limited to iTunes as a GUI - great if you like iTunes, not so great if you do not;

Very few people do not like iTunes, so understandable again.
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7. iTunes keeps playing along with the Amarra "sound engine" - the volume is just turned down. This adds to CPU load;

Which, on a newish Mac, is next to nothing.
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8. The sw is very expensive for what it is, particularly crippled to 24/96 in the Mini version

I can't help thinking that one can get serious hardware for the cost of Amarra. I'd rather spend that cash on an RME Fireface 400 personally, which re-clocks the data.

 

[leeperry]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tricka /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have had many iterations of Windows: XX High End

haha, this one is terrible!
mastering reverb + crazy EQ, even its coder said so on computeraudiophile.com...a far cry from bit-perfect

 

[Bredin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tricka /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have had many iterations of Windows: XX High End, Foobar + Wasapi, Foobar + Asio etc etc. The OS-X and Linux Audio Stacks are inherently superior.

How does the audiostack look with foobar + real asio card. It should be foobar -> hardware. I use foobar + ESI maya44 with real ASIO support. The ESI soundcard is disabled in windows, no non-ASIO application can access the card. I can't see how Linux or OSX would be any better when the whole audio stack in windows is bypassed.

Did you try ASIO4ALL or did you use a real ASIO card? ASIO4ALL is a Kernel-Mixer/Wasapi wrapper from what I understand, and it is not like real ASIO. The output with real ASIO is bit-perfect, so it should at least sound the same as linux & osx bit-perfect.

 

[tricka]

Hi guys
I should say that the comments are my own impressions and experiences and everyone else will have theirs. I respect those of course.

G'day Currawong - what in the world are you doing so far from home mate? Spring time down here now. Cockies are making a racket as I type.

You make some valid points. Unfortunately I had significant issues with Amarra that did not reflect their marketing claims. SQ was not one of them.

I also come at this from a time poor middle aged consumers point of view - that is when I pay $400 for OS-X sw I expect to be convenient and stable. 10.6 is not.

Ilok is not acceptable to me. Others will disagree. I just don't care that it has acceptance in the pro world or that it is claimed to be necessary for anti piracy. Frankly I suggest SS should be lucky enough to be in a position where piracy is actually a problem to them.

The 24/96 limitation is an issue for me for a variety of reasons- but I understand it may not be for others. I could see paying $400 for the full version sw but not $1000. It isn't worth that much to me.

The iTunes GUI is also a deal breaker - if it works as a Unix Daemon (which from my brief peak under the covers I thought it may) then it can be ported to any GUI. NAS support is also vital for me - I run SSD for all my OS's on all my computers (again among other things the sonic benefit is worth it to me) and various NAS solutions for music storage.

It is not all negative. The SQ is without peer - the closest to decent vinyl I have heard. I don't know how it works but it works. I hope SS react positively to the criticism (they are well aware of my feelings) and come to market with a slightly more consumer friendly version. Personally I feel they should team up with a professional apple sw development company, spend some time, get it seamless with 10.6 and run it as a $80 App through the App shop. I suspect their revenue base would be much much larger and really at that price piracy is less of a concern. But those are just my personal views.

Getting on to Bredin's comments. With respect I'm not getting into the bits is bits debate. I know from my own background and experience that bits are not bits and the audio engine, HAL and kernel, hw and ps make a huge difference to the SQ. I am very familiar with ASIO having had both RME and Lynx AES cards and currently a RME 9632. I have the RME card under Linux (it has ALSA support - yes I know the Lynx has OSS support but I like ALSA better) and when in Win7(occasional as it is) I use Foobar + wasapi (which I Like better than ASIO). The benefit of a Lynx is that is follows sample rate.

Really I don't think it valid to argue "x" is better than "y": all that matters is that in your system you are satisfied with the results and happy with your listening experience. If ASIO gets you there then that is fine by me! I find for my own needs Linux + MPD with a low latency kernel running off a SSD (or even off a Flash card in a micro server I have around - the Alix 2d2) buffered to RAM is sufficient. I liked the SQ of Amarra a great deal but not the hoops I had to jump into to get it. For others those hoops are no problem.

Best Wishes to all
tricka

 

[tosehee]

I am hoping to try this app after reading somewhat divided impressions. I read that it works with the optical input on the mac pro.

I had some trouble installing the software at first, but after the update on amarra, I was able to install it.

However, I can't seem to make it work with my optical output, Here is the console output.

9/14/09 10:30:01 PM[0x0-0x1b81b8].com.sonicstudio.amarramini[3818]Amarra Status Log:
9/14/09 10:30:01 PM[0x0-0x1b81b8].com.sonicstudio.amarramini[3818]Amarra: Built-in Audio.
9/14/09 10:30:01 PM[0x0-0x1b81b8].com.sonicstudio.amarramini[3818]Amarra: Audio Interface not qualified: Built-in Digital Output.
9/14/09 10:30:01 PM[0x0-0x1b81b8].com.sonicstudio.amarramini[3818]Amarra: Please report any problems.

Does anyone know for certain that it works with optical output for sure?

 

[dallan]

I just plugged in my optical to the dac, unplugged my usb and went to preferences to be sure that the mac had switched over, restarted Amarra/itunes and it worked perfect, no glitch at all. I am using Leopard though, I vaguely remember you upgraded to Snow Leopard, that may be the issue (but others are using it with Snow Leopard). With a brief listen though i didn't like it as well as the usb line as I stated earlier....think the optical on the mac is sorta weak.

 

[tosehee]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dallan /img/forum/go_quote.gif I just plugged in my optical to the dac, unplugged my usb and went to preferences to be sure that the mac had switched over, restarted Amarra/itunes and it worked perfect, no glitch at all. I am using Leopard though, I vaguely remember you upgraded to Snow Leopard, that may be the issue (but others are using it with Snow Leopard). With a brief listen though i didn't like it as well as the usb line as I stated earlier....think the optical on the mac is sorta weak.

Yes. I am using the Snow Leopard. I have no other usb or dac. Just straight optical out to Ref1.

 

[Currawong]

You might need to download the latest version of Amarra. It was confirmed by Amarra themselves that it works with optical, but is not officially supported.

 

[tosehee]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Currawong /img/forum/go_quote.gif You might need to download the latest version of Amarra. It was confirmed by Amarra themselves that it works with optical, but is not officially supported.

I did download the latest which is 1.0.1 of Amarra mini.

edit: The previous version didn't even install successfully.

 

[tuckers]

Amarra will work with Toslink out through Built In Audio. I am aware of a few problems with it that might have to do with how other software may have configured your built in output.

Have you contacted Sonic for support? They can help in this situation.

I am currently testing Amarra with Snow Leopard, and it has worked. I am getting some Snow Leopard issues with network attached storage, and some odd crashes while doing many tasks in Snow Leopard. So my experience with Amarra is not totally stable because of this, but the cause may not be Amarra itself.

I would recommend waiting a month or two before upgrading to Snow Leopard to ensure that any issues that might converge with Amarra will be fixed.

Some people do not like the iLok dongle, but it gives a user some additional choices that most software does not. For instance you can run Amarra on multiple machines, all you have to do is insert the iLok in the machine you want to use. Most software licenses only cover one installation. Also, if you lose the install disk of a piece of software with the registration code on it, there is typically no way to recover it. You are more screwed than with an iLok. Try calling up Adobe and asking them to restore your registration number for Photoshop!

 

[tricka]

10.6.1 is stable on my MBP. I have had no issues except with Amarra. It is beta sw and should be disclosed as such.


Quote:

Some people do not like the iLok dongle, but it gives a user some additional choices that most software does not. For instance you can run Amarra on multiple machines, all you have to do is insert the iLok in the machine you want to use. Most software licenses only cover one installation. Also, if you lose the install disk of a piece of software with the registration code on it, there is typically no way to recover it. You are more screwed than with an iLok. Try calling up Adobe and asking them to restore your registration number for Photoshop!

This argument is flawed. SW is usually activated once and left on the hw. With Amarra you have to activate it every time you want to use it via the iLok.

The risk of losing an install serial number (which most people safely store in one place if physical media and on your back up if digital) is less of concern to me than the potential risk of physical loss/damage of an iLok that requires you plug it into a USB port in order to use Amarra. Reactivation of licences, I suggest, has never been an issue - typically the code is contained in an email or online in your account with eg Adobe. I regularly recover activation keys for products. It is simply scare mongering to talk of difficulty in this area.

In any event you disclose your dealer status:

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VRS Audio Solutions, Dealer for Sonic Studio Amarra Software and Hardware.

and accordingly you have an interest in promoting Amarra and it's ease of use.

 

[linuxworks]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tuckers /img/forum/go_quote.gif Some people do not like the iLok dongle, but it gives a user some additional choices that most software does not.

what spin!

dongles are evil.

case closed.

never buy things have that hardware locks. been there, never going back again.

 

[linuxworks]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tricka /img/forum/go_quote.gif In the meantime I am happy with Linux + MPD. It is excellent and free.

damn straight

mpd is a great architecture.

it sends out bits just fine. let the dac take it from there. that's the important part of the equation anyway; not the sender but the receiver. it ALL depends on the receiver.

digital audio is not hard. it really isn't. not sure why companies can get away with the 'sell' that its hard. its not. hasn't been since win2k era! (win95 sucked and win98 did too; but anything win2k and newer (in age) manages digital audio JUST FINE).

 

[dallan]

Well good for you guys, I like it enough that I just pulled the lever on the Amarra Mini(3 1/2 weeks into my trial), haven't really been able to tolerate computer audio with my set up until now so it is either this program or go back to digging for cds and burning cds to play from downloads. Worth it to make my computer usable. Even my pc with Foobar and asio although much better than anything that i had previously tried, could be tolerated for extended periods like the Amarra.