[buke9]

Well the pads were surprisingly easy to remove and the rings weren't glued in or anything-they were right there on top of the driver, so if you want to do the mod it's reversible.

How does it sound? Thin comes to mind, very thin. Better? That's subjective. Removes too much bass for me, so my personal preference is the stock configuration. While it's open I think I'll do a dynamat extreme mod and see how that sounds

Would like to hear your impressions of the mods when done. These headphones aren't perfect but none of them are so any improvement would be good.

 

[Nomax]

Well the pads were surprisingly easy to remove and the rings weren't glued in or anything-they were right there on top of the driver, so if you want to do the mod it's reversible.

How does it sound? Thin comes to mind, very thin. Better? That's subjective. Removes too much bass for me, so my personal preference is the stock configuration. While it's open I think I'll do a dynamat extreme mod and see how that sounds

Yes less Bass,but it has more then K812

Harman was wanting a very BASS HEAVY SOUNDSIGNATURE from Vienna for the US.Homemarket

Give it out Rings.....the Highs and Mids will be fresh and sounds much much more open.....or let it in ....you will have a muffled Soundsignature with very much bass

Sorry my english is to Bad for this place....but my follwowers in Europe knows what i mean

Ragards Nomax

Ps.i know the Contributors from K812&K3003&K872

 

[Traveller]

...please remove this foam rings - and listen again!

Please don't.

...The rings are in front of the driver. Similar to the ones on the K702/712 etc. They reduce the slight treble glare that was part of the K812 makeup. ... AKG has always had a unique approach to treble. I don't think this is an accident. They just seem to hear it a certain way. But by adding foam rings to "correct" a perceived problem, you kind of throw out the baby with the bathwater, because you also filter out some of what is actually good about the treble.

"please don't"... ? Why not? You are clearly stating that the rings are filtering out the good with the bad... So what's the point of your original one-liner... ? 

 
 
 

As I've stated in my own review, I think the very source of their issues is related with interwiring and FPWAs. The driver alone can be actually pretty good, just ruined because of wires with diameter of a hair. 

So what model have you used / tested that use the same drivers and different wiring? The K812 use the same configuration but I don't think the 700s have the same drivers, regardless of wiring...

Please read what you've quoted one more time. 
Quote:

Try it and i am sure you will hear the difference how great the K872 can sound without this ******** FOAM RINGS!

In other words, AKG is selling 1500 EUR master reference headphones which are underdeveloped from the start and needs customer's interference in order to remove their stock elements placed inside the headphones by default? Or am I reading your statement incorrectly?

 
How many times do you want me to read it? What should I come back with, other than the assumption that you have heard the drivers with other type of wiring? How ELSE could you suggest the "drivers alone" are good?
 
And for one that owns more AKGs than possibly an other HedFier, you sure sound oddly bitter over the K7 / 8xxx... maybe time to move on to another brand... 

 
 
  Quote:

 

so this is very similar to what Beyerdynamic did when going from the T5p.1 to the T5p.2s and I would suggest they did it to minimize some "issue" affecting the mid to higher frequencies... . possibly at the expense of some HF information... .

"Purists" prefer a little bad with the good while the musically-warm inclined are prepared to live with the roll-off to avoid fatigue... .

In the end one can try both ways and decide which is best for them

In the Case of K872....its not similiar to the Beyer......try it out and you will see the soundsignature is completly different without the FOAM RINGS..all will be surpriced...

 
Well, that's what I was implying with the Beyerdynamic as well - that the additional "dampening" changed the signature so much that the T1/T5p 1st gen "groupies" were annoyed over Beyerdynamic's decision. In any event, I was certainly was not implying that the K872s sound similar to the T5P.2s (and I own both).
 
I took my T5p.2s apart just to see the changes with my own eyes (no photos were available) but once I realized what they did, I did not remove the "upgrades". I'd like to think their designers know a little more than me on the subject and so I did not mess with the cans. In the case of the K872s, the "mod" is quite reversible and so I will give it a go just for the fun of it... but again, I do honestly believe in the AKG designers and their positive intentions
 

 

 

[Traveller]

p.s. Sorry, the Editor has gone mad (or I have an issue with my browser...) so I have to do a separate entry...

Yes less Bass,but it has more then K812. Harman was wanting a very BASS HEAVY SOUNDSIGNATURE from Vienna for the US.Homemarket... Give it out Rings.....the Highs and Mids will be fresh and sounds much much more open.....or let it in ....you will have a muffled Soundsignature with very much bass ...
Ps.i know the Contributors from K812&K3003&K872

Ah.... sorry! I did not see your last entry and now I understand what you're getting at! So the designers (which you know...) purposely added the dampening to "tune" the signature for the American market. Got it!
Thanks for the insider information!

 

[Beagle]

Hi Guys!

So i think its time to say something about the K872 lol

With the Foam Rings inside.....yes the K872 sounds very very Bad......sorry that i must say that........BUT NOW THE SENSATION!!IF YOU TAKE OUT THE FOAM RINGS......you will be surpriced....and in my opionion....without the rings the K872 sounds better than the K812

Try it and i am sure you will hear the difference how great the K872 can sound without this ******** FOAM RINGS!

Regards from Austria

NOMAX

 
 

Yes less Bass,but it has more then K812

Harman was wanting a very BASS HEAVY SOUNDSIGNATURE from Vienna for the US.Homemarket

Give it out Rings.....the Highs and Mids will be fresh and sounds much much more open.....or let it in ....you will have a muffled Soundsignature with very much bass

Sorry my english is to Bad for this place....but my follwowers in Europe knows what i mean

Ragards Nomax

Ps.i know the Contributors from K812&K3003&K872

 
 

  "please don't"... ? Why not? You are clearly stating that the rings are filtering out the good with the bad... So what's the point of your original one-liner... ? 

 

 
It does not improve the sound in absolute terms. You get more perceived clarity but you also get glare and some harshness. The rings are a compromise to try and mask what seems to be a slight resonance in the diaphragm, possibly.
 
I said "please don't" out of experience. I removed them and put them back in because IMO the increased glare overshadowed a slight increase in perceived clarity. I knew then why the rings were used. Also, if you did not mark the location of the pads before removing them, chances are you will put them back on the wrong way. They do not snap back into holes.

 

[EvilKillaruna]

  How many times do you want me to read it? What should I come back with, other than the assumption that you have heard the drivers with other type of wiring? How ELSE could you suggest the "drivers alone" are good?
 
And for one that owns more AKGs than possibly an other HedFier, you sure sound oddly bitter over the K7 / 8xxx... maybe time to move on to another brand... 

 
You have missed an important keyword: "I think"

. Since I am in no way affiliated with AKG and rarely heavily disassembling headphones coming for review, I couldn't heard the driver alone in other applications. Therefore everything I said about wiring and driver potential is based only on my listenings, experience with various other drivers and final assumptions built around this particular design. At the same time, I am trying to share my thoughts about possible solutions and areas which some brave owners with DIY hands would consider as worth trying to check out and/or improve. 
 
I don't see any point in moving anywhere. I am quite happy with most of my collection and have no urge for seeking headphones for my personal tastes. K1000 are covering most of my requirements and at the same time perform exceptionally well as a baseline for many reviews, often backed-up with HD800. What is more, I don't recall being bitter about K7 seriers in this thread. Actually, I:
- have quite high opinion about classic K7 series and owned them for a very long time,
- have very good opinion about new K7 line, like K7XX which I liked very much with Aune S16 rev1,
- did article about modding them with specific types of fabric filters, o-rings, bassport mods, cables etc.
- consider them as very good choice for spacious music and synthetic genres, like ambient, light electronica etc.
 
About being bitter about K8, please remember that K872 was on my shopping list. I was considering to buy them as monitor headphones for test purposes and as a serious alternative for not-exactly-perfect-for-the-job T5p v2, so if my opinion was somewhere biased, it should be in their favor. Unfortunately they missed various things making up a common image of proper and correct sound from acoustical standpoint with quite a large margin. Then got some surprise beating from old K270 at the end of the day. It is very hard not to left bitter impression in such situation. And now when I am reading that I have to mod them right out of the box in order to grasp their full potential... well, lets say my bitterness is getting stronger. 

 

 

[inthere]

Originally Posted by Beagle /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
It does not improve the sound in absolute terms. You get more perceived clarity but you also get glare and some harshness. The rings are a compromise to try and mask what seems to be a slight resonance in the diaphragm, possibly.
 
I said "please don't" out of experience. I removed them and put them back in because IMO the increased glare overshadowed a slight increase in perceived clarity. I knew then why the rings were used. Also, if you did not mark the location of the pads before removing them, chances are you will put them back on the wrong way. They do not snap back into holes.

Completely agree with the sound change: definitely not worth it. The pads are easy to put in the right way, there's a square groove that you you match up with a corresponding square tab on each pad, but I for the life of me can't get the pads to stick again because as you said, they don't snap back into holes.

 

[Traveller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beagle /img/forum/go_quote.gif

Yes less Bass,but it has more then K812. Harman was wanting a very BASS HEAVY SOUNDSIGNATURE from Vienna for the US.Homemarket. Give it out Rings.....the Highs and Mids will be fresh and sounds much much more open.....or let it in ....you will have a muffled Soundsignature with very much bass. ... Ps.i know the Contributors from K812&K3003&K872

It does not improve the sound in absolute terms. You get more perceived clarity but you also get glare and some harshness. The rings are a compromise to try and mask what seems to be a slight resonance in the diaphragm, possibly ... IMO the increased glare overshadowed a slight increase in perceived clarity. I knew then why the rings were used. Also, if you did not mark the location of the pads before removing them, chances are you will put them back on the wrong way. They do not snap back into holes.

Thanks for the more detailed feedback; now we have some perspective.
 
As I initially suggested after both your and Fritz' posts yesterday, it boils down to a question of taste. Glare vs. [perceived] clarity, brightness vs. detail and so on. This very same conversation took place over at the Beyerdynamic T1 / T5p threads.
On one hand, we want to trust the designer in the sense that we assume (or hope that) every generation brings improvements if / when necessary. On the other hand, with @Nomax's clarification (and when it comes to AKG, "in Nomax we trust") there is a different reality... .
 
The reality that companies are changing their "house sound" to suit the current market demand. If we consider how both the AKG and Beyerdynamic have done it, we could extrapolate that the market wants a more forgiving, warmer signature and if necessary, even at the cost of some detail / resolution... .

Hence...

1. The oldskool camp are going to bark and demand their "house sound" back and they will remove any tweaks to reach that target.
2. Those Anti-house-sound members that found it to be too bright, etc. will be elated with the "upgrade"
3. Finally, new-kids-on-the-block like myself who started the brand(s) off with the T1.2 / T5p.2 / K872 and have already invested a reasonable amount of listening hours will be shocked by the removal of said tweaks... .

 
[IMHO] The ultimate test in the latter case is to put in roughly the same number of hours with and without the tweak. Only then can you truly be sure of the benefit / drawback of the changes... !
 
...and the battle continues...

 

 

[Beagle]

  Completely agree with the sound change: definitely not worth it. The pads are easy to put in the right way, there's a square groove that you you match up with a corresponding square tab on each pad, but I for the life of me can't get the pads to stick again because as you said, they don't snap back into holes.

 
You have to reach in with your fingers and push the inner edge of the pads down, along the outer driver ring frame. You almost need a nice big thumbnail to do it. But they do snap down. You do a couple of mm at a time, circling around and do a full circle.

 

[FritzS]

In my K872 box there was an manual and a little tool for change the pads attached.

 

[Beagle]

  The reality that companies are changing their "house sound" to suit the current market demand. If we consider how both the AKG and Beyerdynamic have done it, we could extrapolate that the market wants a more forgiving, warmer signature and if necessary, even at the cost of some detail / resolution... .

 
I am sure that the companies follow the online chatter from owners/reviewers and make changes accordingly. I recall Sennheiser deliberately tuned the HD650 for a more 'musical' sound (than that of the HD600) and even said so in the accompanying pamphlet.

 

[Traveller]

...In my K872 box there was an manual and a little tool for change the pads attached.

 
FYI (2 all), Tool & Userguide...

 
 

 
 
~~~
 
p.s. Also included and interesting as heck seeing as this is my first encounter with a "LEMO" connector...

 

 

[Beagle]

  In my K872 box there was an manual and a little tool for change the pads attached.

 
 

   
FYI (2 all), Tool & Userguide...

 
 
 

 
Well by golly so there is. I never examined the contents of that box. Thanks for bringing that to our attention.

 

[inthere]

First of all thanks to Traveller for posting the instructions on how to attach the pads, it saved my headphone!
 
2nd, I've been listening to the K872 a bit lately and fully respectful of the esteemed opinions of the sound of the K872, I just don't hear "suck" when I listen to it........I still think it's a brilliant sounding headphone and worthy of the price.

 

[buke9]

First of all thanks to Traveller for posting the instructions on how to attach the pads, it saved my headphone!

2nd, I've been listening to the K872 a bit lately and fully respectful of the esteemed opinions of the sound of the K872, I just don't hear "suck" when I listen to it........I still think it's a brilliant sounding headphone and worthy of the price.

Totally agree I hear different but not suck. The presentation is different than any other can I have but it is still really good to me. It is one of the best things I've heard straight out of a iPhone . It only gets better after that. Do I wish the bass was a little more detailed yes but other than that not much.