AKG's new K872?
Mar 18, 2017 at 10:06 AM Post #376 of 642
Originally Posted by Tyll Hertsens /img/forum/go_quote.gifQuote:
 
It seems I'm far more impressed by the AKG K812 so far than Tyll is. ...I haven't heard the "tizzy" sound Tyll mentioned. That said, the K812 is not a forgiving headphone. I won't comment about how resolving I feel it is vis-à-vis the HD 800, as I don't have that with me now (but will soon). That said, the K812 is, to my ears, capable of very high resolution.

 
Hi Jude. Just to clarify: I find them a "bit" tizzy. Sounds to me something like there's always a triangle (the instrument) in the treble. I find it modestly fatiguing. I will also say though the I find the overall balance of the K812 better than the HD800, which to me lacks a little warmth in the bass. 
 
The three-pin cable connector indicates to me that AKG doesn't get, or isn't trying to impress this market yet. 
 
I still think it's a good effort on their part, lots of things like the aluminum build and novel earpads to admire, and I think these are markedly better sounding than the T1. But I think in the rush to the top (read: building $1000+ headphones) sonic performance in the market is not yet on par with the build quality these companies are putting into the product. I'd lump the HD800 into that category as well; seems like everyone agrees that they're a problematic headphone. Seems to me that the Audeze LCD-X is probably the closest to delivering a high price/performance ratio, but even there I feel we're well onto the steep diminishing returns curve.
 
In my estimation we're still in the infancy of ultra-high-end ($1000+) headphones, and it will be another 5 years before we really start seeing the performance of these cans strongly better than sub-$1000 headphones. 
 
In other words: Price still doesn't reflect acoustic performance on the whole, and the K812, T1, HD800, LCD-X, and others have plenty of room for improvement.

 
@Tyll Hertsens - I'm not sure this is the best way to reach you, but having read your review of the K812 as wll as the associated measurements, I (for one) would love to see, at the least, you doing measurements of the K872, if not a full review.
I don't expect a night & day difference but I would love to see if AKG has made any additional tweaks to the driver itself. Obviously this "dampening ring" they placed between the driver and pad will affect the results, but removing it would show some interesting differences of the enclosed cups, etc.
 
A great site and I also appreciate your former work at HeadRoom - my TAH is still alive and kickin'! :)
 
Mar 18, 2017 at 10:32 AM Post #377 of 642
   
@Tyll Hertsens - I'm not sure this is the best way to reach you, but having read your review of the K812 as wll as the associated measurements, I (for one) would love to see, at the least, you doing measurements of the K872, if not a full review.
I don't expect a night & day difference but I would love to see if AKG has made any additional tweaks to the driver itself. Obviously this "dampening ring" they placed between the driver and pad will affect the results, but removing it would show some interesting differences of the enclosed cups, etc.
 
A great site and I also appreciate your former work at HeadRoom - my TAH is still alive and kickin'! :)


And my wish to @Tyll Hertsens  too, measure with and without the “damping rings“ 
k701smile.gif

 
Now I hear without this “damping rings“ with best joice. 
My opinion the sound signature of K872 is nearer to K712 than to K812.
 
Now hearing:
Esther Fellner / Via Del Campo
http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/poprock/detail/-/art/Esther-Fellner-Via-Del-Campo-signiert/hnum/1443042   
http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/poprock/detail/-/art/Esther-Fellner-Via-Del-Campo/hnum/4285550
.

 
Mar 20, 2017 at 8:33 PM Post #378 of 642
inthere /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Nomax /img/forum/go_quote.gif...With the Foam Rings inside.....yes the K872 sounds very very Bad......sorry that i must say that........BUT NOW THE SENSATION!!IF YOU TAKE OUT THE FOAM RINGS......you will be surpriced....and in my opionion....without the rings the K872 sounds better than the K812

...Well the pads were surprisingly easy to remove and the rings weren't glued in or anything-they were right there on top of the driver, so if you want to do the mod it's reversible.
How does it sound? Thin comes to mind, very thin. Better? That's subjective. Removes too much bass for me, so my personal preference is the stock configuration...

 
Nomax
...Yes less Bass,but it has more then K812. Harman was wanting a very BASS HEAVY SOUNDSIGNATURE from Vienna for the US.Homemarket. Give it out Rings.....the Highs and Mids will be fresh and sounds much much more open.....or let it in ....you will have a muffled Soundsignature with very much bass...

 
Beagle /img/forum/go_quote.gif... It does not improve the sound in absolute terms. You get more perceived clarity but you also get glare and some harshness. The rings are a compromise to try and mask what seems to be a slight resonance in the diaphragm, possibly ... I removed them and put them back in because IMO the increased glare overshadowed a slight increase in perceived clarity...

 
inthere /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Beagle /img/forum/go_quote.gifIt does not improve the sound in absolute terms....

...Completely agree with the sound change: definitely not worth it...

 
FritzS /img/forum/go_quote.gif... Now I hear without this “damping rings“ with best joice. My opinion the sound signature of K872 is nearer to K712 than to K812.

 
Traveller /img/forum/go_quote.gif... The reality that companies are changing their "house sound" to suit the current market demand. If we consider how both the AKG and Beyerdynamic have done it, we could extrapolate that the market wants a more forgiving, warmer signature and if necessary, even at the cost of some detail / resolution... . Hence...
 
The oldskool camp are going to bark and demand their "house sound" back and they will remove any tweaks to reach that target.
Those Anti-house-sound members that found it to be too bright, etc. will be elated with the "upgrade"
Finally, new-kids-on-the-block like myself who started the brand(s) off with the T1.2 / T5p.2 / K872 and have already invested a reasonable amount of listening hours will be shocked by the removal of said tweaks... .
 
[IMHO] The ultimate test in the latter case is to put in roughly the same number of hours with and without the tweak. Only then can you truly be sure of the benefit / drawback of the changes... !

 
So two for, two against... that might make me the tie-breaker, lol.
 
So I'm listening to them now without the [thin] dampening rings; when I first cranked up the music I figured the bass would all but be gone and the HFs would pierce my eardrums...
...well that's certainly not the case, I'm pleased to report! Yes, less bass (... or less bloat?) and the HF-region has also changed somewhat. But my test tracks which are fatigue-inducing with some cans haven't made me wince (...yet).
 
But I will follow my own suggestion and now listen to the K872s without the rings for at least ~30hrs. Then I will (hopefully) be able to clearly decide which camp (da Americans or ze Germans*) are subjectively right...
biggrin.gif

 
*Österreicher, Natürlich ​
wink.gif

 
 
~~~
 
One thing I want to say right off the bat: even with the supplied tool, assembly's-a-bitch. I honestly don't want to do this a dozen times. Not only because of the time it takes but also because I have some concerns about eventually damaging the pad's inner-mesh covering with the tool...
 
8 tabs including the "key"...
33519408266_8ebf29f9b9_c.jpg

 
Thin dampner (typical grey foam)... also note the [ultra-thin] outer ring which is some kind of neoprene / rubber 
33403395472_0c595b61ac_c.jpg

 
Removing the first pad freaked me out - thought the assembly was lob-sided.
Turns out AKG angles their driver similar to Beyerdynamic's T series...
33519407496_f88ef80cb1_c.jpg

 
I love it. Living in Vienna now for quite some time makes me rather proud to see this awesome gear's "home-grown"...
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33403394962_4a5e771c45_c.jpg

 
33177693830_798558242a_c.jpg
 
 
Mar 20, 2017 at 9:43 PM Post #379 of 642
   
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33519407496_f88ef80cb1_c.jpg

 

 
That's weird. Yours looks like it does not have foam behind the driver cloth cover. I can see the plastic cap frame.
 
Mar 21, 2017 at 5:20 AM Post #381 of 642
 
   
.
33519407496_f88ef80cb1_c.jpg

 

 
That's weird. Yours looks like it does not have foam behind the driver cloth cover. I can see the plastic cap frame.


​What, even more crap between the driver and the listener... ???
blink.gif

In that case, thank goodness mine doesn't have it. Both sides match. What about yours, @FritzS
And yours, @inthere?
 
Mar 21, 2017 at 6:14 AM Post #382 of 642
  ​What, even more crap between the driver and the listener... ???
blink.gif

In that case, thank goodness mine doesn't have it. Both sides match. What about yours, @FritzS
And yours, @inthere?

 
 



I'vegot these photos I posted previously but no wayyyyyyyyyy I'm opening it again!
 
Mar 21, 2017 at 12:35 PM Post #383 of 642
 
​What, even more crap between the driver and the listener... ???
blink.gif

In that case, thank goodness mine doesn't have it. Both sides match. What about yours, @FritzS
And yours, @inthere?


Both sides matches too.
If I open them next time I would make a photo too. 
 
Mar 22, 2017 at 4:37 AM Post #384 of 642
Are there any plans for a test chart in innerfidelity???
http://www.innerfidelity.com/headphone-measurements
 
Mar 22, 2017 at 10:45 AM Post #385 of 642
Are there any plans for a test chart in innerfidelity???
http://www.innerfidelity.com/headphone-measurements


I wouldn't hold my breath...
 
...however, if I were AKG / Harman's Marketing Dept. and we were convinced the K872 is "the second coming", then we would have sent @Tyll Hertsens a demo unit months ago... .
 
If they are waiting for him to ask... well, like I said, I wouldn't hold my breath...
wink.gif

 
Mar 22, 2017 at 6:30 PM Post #386 of 642
Ahhh crap. So, since I'd opened it already I decided to try a dynamat extreme mod............it didn't go well-ringy, harsh and no bass. On top of that I lost the tool to get the pads on and it was holy hell figuring out how to re-attach them without the tool.
 
Got them re-attached but it wasn't stable; the pads kept slipping back off.
 
Ok, so what did I do today? ANOTHER MOD. This time a sorbothane mod. Sonically it worked out better. Not sure if it sounds better than the stock tuning yet, but it seems to have cut out some of the harshness and slightly metallic resonance. I've even seemed to re-attach the pads stably this time.
 
Mar 22, 2017 at 6:45 PM Post #387 of 642
Ahhh crap. So, since I'd opened it already I decided to try a dynamat extreme mod............it didn't go well-ringy, harsh and no bass. On top of that I lost the tool to get the pads on and it was holy hell figuring out how to re-attach them without the tool.

Got them re-attached but it wasn't stable; the pads kept slipping back off.

Ok, so what did I do today? ANOTHER MOD. This time a sorbothane mod. Sonically it worked out better. Not sure if it sounds better than the stock tuning yet, but it seems to have cut out some of the harshness and slightly metallic resonance. I've even seemed to re-attach the pads stably this time.
How did you do the Sorbothane ? I did little squares on my HE-400's on the back of the cup and it helped out a lot. Yes I know open vs. closed and I don't know if you can get to behind the driver was just curious.
 
Mar 22, 2017 at 6:56 PM Post #388 of 642

I've always used the approach where I would tap the areas and pieces around the driver....and whatever clanked or clunked or "rang", I would work on those.
 
Mar 23, 2017 at 5:30 AM Post #389 of 642
Mar 23, 2017 at 6:44 AM Post #390 of 642
Originally Posted by Traveller /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
So did you check yours for this "foam" layer @Beagle mentioned above... ?

 
No, I didn't go behind the driver, just put pieces of self-adhesive sorbothane on the plastic that surrounds the driver
 

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