[MacedonianHero]

how does k812 compare with k872

General rule of thumb, always go open-backed unless you require noise isolation. These two headphones are no different to my ears in that regard with the K812s simply being more transparent and open sounding.

 

[rick3333]

HELP WANTED : could somebody be so kind as to recommend a specialist who can convert/modify my 812s to balanced please ? not had much luck with internet search so i thought i would ask here. Thanks in advance. I am UK based.

 

[mocenigo]

HELP WANTED : could somebody be so kind as to recommend a specialist who can convert/modify my 812s to balanced please ? not had much luck with internet search so i thought i would ask here. Thanks in advance. I am UK based.

Also very interested!

 

[rick3333]

I found a company UK based called Fix My Headphones (fixmyheadphones.co.uk) earlier on today and have emailed them for a quote...... I also contacted AKG customer support and asked them if they would do it for me. Bet AKG are expensive IF they are willing to do it. Watch this space as i will report back as and when i hear from either of them.

 

[lacknothing]

IMO the Harman Kardon Moloch does no good to AKG
I suggest to ditch the K812 and replace it with the excellent K712 which is easy to mod to four wire / symmetric:

https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/hea...702-65th-anniversary-q701-k712-symmetric.html

 

[Me x3]

IMO the Harman Kardon Moloch does no good to AKG
I suggest to ditch the K812 and replace it with the excellent K712 which is easy to mod to four wire / symmetric:

https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/hea...702-65th-anniversary-q701-k712-symmetric.html

AKG K712 is considerably inferior relative to the AKG K812.

 

[metalicblue]

I agree , had multiple AKG7XX models, I liked the Q701 better than any of the 700 series but the 812 is at another level.

 

[lacknothing]

AKG K712 is considerably inferior relative to the AKG K812.

I agree , had multiple AKG7XX models, I liked the Q701 better than any of the 700 series but the 812 is at another level.

I'm honestly interested in what regard both you find the 712 any inferior?

Same motor, same flat wire coil, more or less the same diaphragm, slightly different choice in tuning the tonality as to available FR measurements.
Also, I guess no one of you had heard the AKG712 modded to symmetric / four wire?

Besides that, I highly doubt that any 3 wire can can come any close to the performance of a symmetric four wire HP.
There is a reason as to why (edit: left and right) speakers do not share GND cables (others than that it would be a mess for cable layout in your listening room) and there is a reason, the same actually, as to why some strongly prefer multi-wiring for multi-chassis speakers or even go active.

 

[metalicblue]

I'm interested in what regard both you find the 712 any inferior.
Also, I guess no one of you had the AKG712 modded to symmetric / four wire?

First of all this is just my opinion:

The 7xx series stage sounds left-right wide to me, imaging is ok but no depth just wide. The 812 comparatively has a better 3d all around stage with depth and height. I can hear sounds coming not only left / right, front / back but also from above my head and below my feet.
Kind of the difference between a good 5.1 surround and a good dolby atmos system.

Besides that, I highly doubt that any 3 wire can can come any close to the performance of a symmetric four wire HP.
There is a reason as to why speakers do not share GND cables (others than that would be a mess for cable layout in your listening room) and there is a reason, the same actually, as to why some strongly prefer multi-wiring for multi-chassis speakers or even go active.

If you have no radio/ electromagnetic waves in your listening room, there is no reason to have shielded/ balanced/ separate GND wires in your setup. A normal house is usually clean of that, exception would be a recording studio with lots of gear.
I am one of those that believe that a good amplifier does not need to be balanced. I mod almost all of my headphones and also make my own cables. Not because of the sound but because I need different lengths for different setups or because the original cable is too stiff or to flimsy. I tried different types from pure silver to OFC Copper and got to the conclusion that a good headphone changes the sound 80% . A good amplifier is the rest of 20% of the signature of the headphone and 0% makes the cable to change it. If you have any electrical Knowledge you would not fall for all of the cable material snake oil people are believing in. I dare anyone to make a difference in a blind test between a crappy 50$ cable and a 1000$ one. People spend thousands of $$$ because they can afford or because they are influenced by the snake oil that's out there. Been there, done it. not for me anymore. I would rather use that money towards a better headphone/dac/amlifier.

 

[lacknothing]

If you have no radio/ electromagnetic waves in your listening room, there is no reason to have shielded/ balanced/ separate GND wires in your setup. A normal house is usually clean of that, exception would be a recording studio with lots of gear.
I am one of those that believe...

Sorry, you are totally off the point.

Re-read my posting, there is nothing to "belive" in four wire cables, its rock solid physics I'm talking of.
It has nothing to do with "symmetric" in terms of symmetric impedance matching used for signal transfer between gear in favour of maximizing signal to noise.
Don't mix that up.

 

[Me x3]

I'm honestly interested in what regard both you find the 712 any inferior?

To my ears the AKG K812 is more comfortable, with better soundstage and more linear frequency response. It sounds cleaner, faster and more dynamic.
The AKG K712 is warmer and more forgiving. A more relaxed sound by comparison.

I highly doubt you've heard any of these headphones with perfectly symmetric ears.
Perfectly symmetric ears are key for true fidelity, otherwise they mess the whole intended sound! Rock solid physics, you know...

Back from fun mode, you're free to play with wires as much as you want and welcome to prove your beliefs in a scientific way (if science is what you're talking about).

I highly doubt that any 3 wire can can come any close to the performance of a symmetric four wire HP.

Put things like this to test under proper scientific methods to find out how relevant or irrelevant they happen to be both in terms of measurable performance of the headphone as well as subjective perception under unbiased listening experiments.

In the subjective realm, you can say whatever you want, and people is free to take your word or not.
If you're going to talk about science, then go ahead, but do it properly.

1- Can you present scientific proof that the AKG K712 modded to symmetric / four wire measures better than in its stock configuration?
2- Can you present scientific proof that the AKG K712 modded to symmetric / four wire is subjectively perceived as consistently better sounding than in its stock configuration under unbiased listening experiments on multiple listeners?

 

[lacknothing]

To my ears the AKG K812 is more comfortable, with better soundstage and more linear frequency response. It sounds cleaner, faster and more dynamic.

The AKG K712 is warmer and more forgiving. A more relaxed sound by comparison.

Thanks a lot.
Will see if I will come to the same conclusions.
Ordered the K812 specifically for that comparison.

I highly doubt you've heard any of these headphones with perfectly symmetric ears.

Perfectly symmetric ears are key for true fidelity, otherwise they mess the whole intended sound! Rock solid physics, you know...

Back from fun mode,

LOL

Back from fun mode, you're free to play with wires as much as you want and welcome to prove your beliefs in a scientific way (if science is what you're talking about).

Put things like this to test under proper scientific methods to find out how relevant or irrelevant they happen to be both in terms of measurable performance of the headphone as well as subjective perception under unbiased listening experiments.

In the subjective realm, you can say whatever you want, and people is free to take your word or not.
If you're going to talk about science, then go ahead, but do it properly.

1- Can you present scientific proof that the AKG K712 modded to symmetric / four wire measures better than in its stock configuration?
2- Can you present scientific proof that the AKG K712 modded to symmetric / four wire is subjectively perceived as consistently better sounding than in its stock configuration under unbiased listening experiments on multiple listeners?

There really is no need to present "my" scientific results. Its been done already and well understood for centuries.
The point in symmetric (which is kind a missleading term in this regard) / four wire cable is, that the common GND carries the current of the left and right channel simultaniousely.

These currents unavoidable cause voltage drops over the resistance and inductance of the cable, introducing unwanted signal crosstalk at least.
Sound stage and clarity will suffer the most, but IMO there is even more thats affected.

simple as that

 

[rick3333]

AKG customer support have replied to me re my request to convert the 812 to balanced ... they declined... still waiting for a reply from Fix My Headphones..... AKG K812 Headphones currently available on E bay UK for £499.99 - seller has more than 10 available (26/1/19)

 

[pataburd]

Saw two pair of K812 balanced advertised on Audiogon last month [$899, I think] , but do not see them there anymore.

 

[lacknothing]

Besides that, I highly doubt that any 3 wire can can come any close to the performance of a symmetric four wire HP.

For what its worth:

After the very first minutes, right out of the box with no break in whatsoever, I admit the AKG K812 caught me on its performance in several areas, that really sets it apart from the K7xx line, cranking SQ up one further notch, at least somehow.

What sticks out for me was, that presentation does have sort of spot on precision, especially in the low and lowest registers, that I only found in tough open baffle speaker designs until now.

That overall tonality has changed from AKG house sound towards Harman Kardon house sound (the so called "Harman Listener Target Curve"), one has to accept and adapt onto.
https://www.listeninc.com/wp/media/Perception_and_-Measurement_of_Headphones_Sean_Olive.pdf

As long as accurate headphone "equalization" / HpTF is not done as it should be - by impulse folding up streams - nor widely available in hard and soft ware, we are stuck to however headphone manufacturers fake the real thing.

Gladly the K812 seems to continue in the AKG long time aim, to bridge the gap between being extremely resolving and yet at the same time offering very enjoyable presentation of high musicality.
This in fact is, or was, the strongest point for me for choosing AKG headphones.

Will see over the next time if the ""eee's" Tyll was so bothered about will be of any relevance to me.
https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/akg-k812-professional-reference-headphone

One thing though is for sure, if and that's a big if, I am gonna to stay with the AKG K812 I inevitable have to tweak it to symmetric / four wire cable. The K812 simply isn't up to the task regarding "3D" rendering
Even offering substantial achievements and basically having a nice, "airy" presentation I like, the K812 will always lose against my four wire modified K712 in the long run.

Its a real shame Harman Kardon made such an obvious penny-pincher SQ step back, right at a so called flag ship product.