[zenpunk]

Always love Tyll's reviews and i praise him for his honest opinions. While i hold his methods and opinions in very high regard, i wonder though if something is amiss. As i said earlier, surely akg have all sorts of scopes and other mesaurement rigs. Impulse response is just something that could not have gone unmeasured/unchecked, surely?

I am still curious about the AKG but I can't make sense of those measurements.

 

From AKG website:

 

"SUPERIOR
IMPULSE RESPONSE

 

Ultra-lightweight
two-layer voice coil
The copper-covered aluminum voice coil extends sound beyond the limits of human auditory system, hitting a full spectrum of frequencies. With the ultra-lightweight two-layer voice coil a superior impulse response and an extended frequency range up to 
54 kHz is guaranteed"
There must be something wrong with those measurements or AKG is full of cr*p.

 

[AUserName501]

Spoiler: Quote: zenpunk

  I am still curious about the AKG but I can't make sense of those measurements.

 

From AKG website:

 

"SUPERIOR
IMPULSE RESPONSE

 

Ultra-lightweight
two-layer voice coil
The copper-covered aluminum voice coil extends sound beyond the limits of human auditory system, hitting a full spectrum of frequencies. With the ultra-lightweight two-layer voice coil a superior impulse response and an extended frequency range up to 
54 kHz is guaranteed"
There must be something wrong with those measurements or AKG is full of cr*p.

 

Most likely there is nothing wrong with his measurements. I wouldn't read the advertising and expect it not be biased. AKG is hardly going to get an engineer to do the marketing and go into detail about the high sub-bass and treble distortion.
 

Spoiler: Quote: Claritas

Quote:

When V-Moda worked on M100, they preferred the sound they went with to others that measured better. Maybe AKG did too.

AKG is selling and marketing them as reference headphones for monitoring. As Tyll said, you may like them but they are not up to snuff for audio professionals.
 
I'm glad Tyll did do a review and from his expressions you can tell he doesn't like to criticise but it should be done for a $1500 headphone made for professionals. AKG will need to do better and refine their design. There is nothing wrong with valid criticism and such expensive headphones should be put under far more scrutiny to see whether they really justify the price.

 

[Claritas]

AKG is selling and marketing them as reference headphones for monitoring though so clearly not. As Tyll said, you may like them but they are not up to snuff for audio professionals.

A lot of firms advertise that way. Audio Technica calls M50 "professional studio monitor headphones." I wouldn't make too much of it.

 

[AUserName501]

Spoiler: Quote: Claritas

Quote:

A lot of firms advertise that way. Audio Technica calls M50 "professional studio monitor headphones." I wouldn't make too much of it.

The point being that for $1500 you'd pick up the HD800s instead of the K812s if you are an audio professional. It is far more likely AKG was unable to fix the distortion in the time frame they were given rather than deliberately added it.

 

[Claritas]

The point being that for $1500 you'd pick up the HD800s instead of the K812s if you are an audio professional. It is far more likely AKG was unable to fix the distortion in the time frame they were given rather than deliberately added it.

For $1500, I'd buy HD600 and fly somewhere warmer than Chicago. Your guess is as good mine--but mine's as good as yours.

 

[Kiats]

Having reviewed the K 812 myself, I must admit I agree with Tyll on most points, even though my conclusion is another.

Nevertheless I rank the K 812 at least as on par with the HD 800. The thing even Tyll called PRAT is great with that ALG can. But it still stays true that there is no single can to rule them all.

 
I agree with you, cucera. Thus far, all the TOTL cans I've come across will have some achilles heel. Hence, what you choose will depend on your perception of the sound and the sort of music you listen too. The wider the genres you listen to, the more likely you are to have more than one go to can. 
 
All said and done, I am still very much enjoying my AKG K812 and it still has the power to take my breath away. 

 

[cucera]

I can not imagine that the AKG engineers didn't know about the distortion, but decided to leave the headphone as it is. Why? They simply liked the sound. Well distortion might sound nice to some, see all those prefering tube sound.

 

[roguegeek]

I can not imagine that the AKG engineers didn't know about the distortion, but decided to leave the headphone as it is. Why? They simply liked the sound. Well distortion might sound nice to some, see all those prefering tube sound.

Compromises. I'm sure no company sets out wanting to build flaws into their cans. They identify a market and related signature they want to design their headphones for. They develop the best that they possibly can to hit that target under the budget that's been given. I'm sure they hit limitations that require them to make choices. Maybe addressing the treble would have meant catastrophic results in other areas? No can is without its flaws.

 

[cucera]

Compromises. I'm sure no company sets out wanting to build flaws into their cans. They identify a market and related signature

Agree ! I didn't want to say that they designed the flaws willingly. But they accepted those when they reached the sound target.

 

[LifeAspect]

cancelled my preorder. Listening to tyll his review I'll be sticking with my hd800 and grabbing a pair of lcd-x's instead.

 

[elwappo99]

  but Tyll listened to the k812s....not just measurements. Did anyone even bothered reading the review?
 
that being said, I have the k812 on order so I can't judge for myself yet.

 
 
Seems a lot of people are wary of measurements, and if they are provided the immediate response is "Well, you gotta trust the listening not just the measurements." I think this is a good case where you can listen to a headphone, hear something off in the treble, and use the measurements to see what is wrong with the treble. I'd be interested to see the CSD measurements. I bet they have a pretty unique treble decay.
 

 
I am still curious about the AKG but I can't make sense of those measurements.

 

From AKG website:

 

"SUPERIOR
IMPULSE RESPONSE

 

 
 
I wouldn't take any of the "marketing" seriously from any headphone. The HD800 also has interesting marketing to go with it. Just people filling in space with "technical feel goods". 

 

[cucera]

I'd be interested to see the CSD measurements.

Here we go

 

[Maxvla]

I doubt the accuracy of that plot. 3-4 ms ring across most of the mid/treble bands?

 

[Tyll Hertsens]

Yeah, I wanna see Marv's.

 

[jespersen]

Listened to the Audeze LCD2, the Sennheisser HD800 and the AKG 812 at a dealer today with my own music. Transport was an AK120 and a Bayerdynamic A1 amp. First off all the headphones had parts where they were the best. Anyways, here is my completely personal and biased impressions.
 
Design, fit and quality: (Not so relevant for the sound I know, however...)
-The LCD2 is build like a tank, but is heavy and pushed annoyingly on my ears making is super uncomfortable for me.
-The AKG feels very well build and looks stunning to my mechanical-ingineers eyes. The surface treatments everywhere are just very well made. Much better fit than the LCD2, especially the earcups are very nice and comfy. Although the cable is thin, this one-sided type more comfortable to use than the dual one on the HD800 that makes me feel like I'm wearing a bib (Ok, not quite that bad..).
-The HD800 looks like it came from a 80s sc-fi movie and the earcups are visually super large compared with the rest. I don't like the design too much as you can probably hear. Seems well build though, but confusing to my eyes and there are these weird soft feeling silver sides that my finges tough when taking them on an off... Makes me go "Hmmmm".... They are just as comfy as the K812 on my head but when moving my head the headband had a tendency to glide back and forth giving an insecure feeeling. Feels just as light on the head as the K812 and I would be happy wearing it for hours.
-> overall winner to me was the K812. The HD800 just a bit behind.
 
Sound (the tough one)
-LCD2: Amazing deep bass. Never heard anything like this. Very hard to say anything bad about that bass -wow!. However... In my head the sound was significantly softer and less controlled in the mids and especially in the high-end than the other two. I can understand that some might find this HP amazing, but to me it was an absolute no-go. It confirmed to me the importance of hearing for yourself rather than reading reviews To me it was a 550HP Ford Mustang in headphones..
-K812: Very exciting sound that got my feet rocking in 2seconds. Good deep bass. Even better mids and well extended hights. Somehow artificially sounding to me, albeit it's hard to explain, but going back and forth between the three somthing was amiss in my book and I was thinking about the headphone rather than the music. Still... The above is somewhat exaggerated to make it clear, in reality it was quite close sounding to the HD800, much much more so that the LCD2.
-HD800: Wow! This is music to me, I have the feeling that this is how the music sounds and I forget the gear. The bass was in my ears a little bit less extended than the K812. I think this HP would take some getting used to though since I almost get "overload" of information to my brain - in a good way Something bad beyond a bass that does not reach LCD2 levels? Maybe a bit analytical, but just a bit; but I kind of like it that way.
-> overall winner to me was HD800, with the K812 strong in pursuit. Before going into the shop I had read a lot online and was almost sure that I would prefer the K812 and have the LCD2 and HD800 following a little bit behind. After the review my personal (!) ranking was different...
 
Value (Swiss prices, 1CHF ~1.12US$ ~0.82€)
-LCD 2: CHF1400
-K812: CHF1950
-HD800: CHF 1300
-> overall value winner to me was the HD800. With a different price on the K812 (such as the same or lower as for the HD800) I would be somewhat tempted, especially since I have read that they can play well on portable gear, even an iPhone, which would be really nice once in a while. But in my country it is very hard to see the reason for another CHF650/US$730 for the K812.
 
Well... today I learned the hard way that it pays of to have a good local shop with knowledgeable people and time to listen to different gear-combinations.... Hope that I can now find a place to listen to some stax gear and a HD800 before I finally decide...