[number1sixerfan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Strangelove /img/forum/go_quote.gif Jazz is bass lite? No no no... I don't mean it's bass light, but the type of bass it has sonicly fits with those recordings, not that the song it self has less bass than a rock single, but the actual type and feel of the bass feels better aligned with the can. Plus, with a little EQ you can make the bass pretty boomy for albums that need it. I will muse on this phenomenon more but for now I'm going to listen to some records.

No, jazz is not bass light but in my experience it is more bass light than rock, pop, hip hop, etc. I may be wrong, I'm just basing it off of my experiences. I guess what I am trying to say is that the k701 is NOT great for every genre and people continue to act like it is. The fact that you are suggesting eq for other genres attest this. It's almost like people who own the k701 are afraid to admit that it may not be great for every type of music. Most headphones aren't great for every type of music. I don't want the OP to grab a pair if he intends to use them for hip hop or pop or rock when he will probably enjoy a grado, beyer, or senn much better.

In comparison, if the OP is into jazz, classical, etc. then I say the k701 might be the best headphone he can possibly get. I would not recommend the rs-1 for his classical and jazz needs because I enjoy the rs-1 for hip hop and rock. As much as I love the rs-1 or any grado for that matter, they are probably not a good fit for people who listen to a ton of more laid back or articulate music.

 

[islewind]

Quote:

Originally Posted by silverrain /img/forum/go_quote.gif I tried the K701, D2000 and D5000 -- I kept only the D2000 as the best overall sound quality, value, and COMFORT of these cans. I have other high-end cans, too, but use the D2000 a lot, because it does everything well, with NO glaring faults sound-wise, that make me wish I was using something else. I don't know why anyone would say the bass is ever excessive or too much -- it is actually really good quality sound overall.

Agreed. I might give a slight edge to the 701's in terms of neutrality and resolution, but the D2000 is so much more comfortable - and I means worlds better, that the Denon is my clear favorite.

 

[MatthewK]

Sorry everyone, like I said I don't have any actual experience with either of them. I wrote that at 4:30am when I was dead tired.

I guess a better way to put it would be a lot of people appear to be disappointed with the K701's bass.
That's what I gather from reading a few threads here and there.

 

[number1sixerfan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MatthewK /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sorry everyone, like I said I don't have any actual experience with either of them. I wrote that at 4:30am when I was dead tired. I guess a better way to put it would be a lot of people appear to be disappointed with the K701's bass. That's what I gather from reading a few threads here and there.

It depends on what you are going to be listening to and the type of sound you prefer. Some people are bassheads, some prefer a more nuetral sound, others prefer a smooth and laid back sound, etc. What type of music do you listen to the most?

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

Quote:

Originally Posted by number1sixerfan /img/forum/go_quote.gif The fact that you are suggesting eq for other genres attest this. It's almost like people who own the k701 are afraid to admit that it may not be great for every type of music. Most headphones aren't great for every type of music.

Please don't make deductions of that sort. My intent was to show the K701s are capable of suiting other genres besides the ones listed. As well as a phone designed around rock and such? No of course not.

However, as a person who listens to songs and not genres I would rather have a phone that can do everything reasonably well, vs just one thing. I also watch movies and play video games with my K701s as my phones, and find them really suited for those tasks as well.

I'm not saying that the 701s are the ultimate all round phone, what I am saying is: with a EQ handy, the 701 is a good all arounder with a slant towards the already-mentioned-genres.

Anyways, this is all based on opinion and perception so it should be moot hah.

 

[Fitz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Strangelove /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm not saying that the 701s are the ultimate all round phone, what I am saying is: with a EQ handy, the 701 is a good all arounder with a slant towards the already-mentioned-genres.

I've always considered the K701 to be a jack of all trades, master of none.

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've always considered the K701 to be a jack of all trades, master of none.

Then again, what headphone is?

But really, that's pretty accurate (Though I personally think it's the master of Jazz, Classical, and Big band).

 

[LawnGnome]

The K701 bass is weak, and doesn't extend nearly as low as the D2000's. Plus they aren't even close to being in the same comfort level.

On some songs with very low bass notes, you can't even hear them with the k701's, with the D2000's, you can hear them loud and clean.

 

[fordgtlover]

I posted this comment in another thread. I am interested whether other have had a similar experience with the D2000.

These have become my FOTM despite the only real criticism I have of them.

At low and mid-range listening levels they sound really nice, but when I turn it up to high listening levels the sound starts to fall apart. The cans lose their composure. I am a little unsure how to describe it. The only comparison I can draw is that it's like being at a live gig where the PA is too loud for the room and sound reflections seem to compound certain frequencies and drown out others.

These are the first closed can I have used. Could this be symptomatic of them being closed? Could this be why markl suggests putting dynamat on the inside of the D5000, and the same applies to the D2000?

The K701 on the otherhand takes pretty much everything in its stride, but perhaps lacks a little impact compared to the D2000.

 

[dcstep]

Jazz and classical require much better bass (smooth, extended, dynamic) than pop, rock, soul and metal, so I wonder why we would think that the 701s are suitable for jazz and classical but not rock. I think this misconception is because people that focus on rock first tend to be listening through systems with the upper bass and lower mids seriously pumped up. Most consumer oriented speakers that you'll hear in the big box stores have this hump. People hear it so much that they think it's natural.

Problem is it colors the midrange and hides nuance. You can't tell a Fender Jazz bass from a Sadowsky or Pendula. Most people never hear that, so they don't know they're missing it and don't demand it.

Before you think I'm a classical dweeb (I am) I'm also a rocker. I've played lead trumpet in a successful Dallas funk/rock/soul band and I've done some Ska trumpeting for fun. Yes, these days I spend most of my playing time these days in either big band or classical, but I've been up on stage in a big arena with a 10,000 watts of subwoofers rocking the stage as we played for a few thousand people. On my system I listen to Marley, Pink Floyd, James Brown, etc. when I'm not listening to jazz and classical.

I'm not having any trouble hearing ANY bass in my 701s. They do seriously dip once you get down to 30Hz, but none of my rock stuff has signal down there. When I want to hear down there I either use my speakers or my Ultimate Ears Pro 5s. (I ordered some 10s in hopes that I'll get more of the highs of the 701s when I'm travelling).

I'd love for the 701s to be flat down to 20Hz, but at least they're pretty flat down to 30Hz and not artificially pumped up in the upper bass and lower mids.

Dave

 

[number1sixerfan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Strangelove /img/forum/go_quote.gif Please don't make deductions of that sort. My intent was to show the K701s are capable of suiting other genres besides the ones listed. As well as a phone designed around rock and such? No of course not.

Well the problem with that imo is that with EQ nearly every mid to hi-fi phone should be suitable with any genre. If you have to EQ for certain genres than they really aren't suitable. You should just grab the phone that is naturally better for that genre. For instance, for rock, rap or hip hop I would aim for a grado. For jazz, classical, soul and r&b the k701. For a jack of all trades probably a hd650 or w5000. I just think it is very important to know what type of music the poster wants to listen to before recommending a can like the k701.

We could start a thread right now that asked for a mid to upper ranged phone for use with rock, hip hop, or pop and the k701 would probably not be recommended. It is a great can indeed, but it lacks the impact needed for some genres imho.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcstep /img/forum/go_quote.gif Jazz and classical require much better bass (smooth, extended, dynamic) than pop, rock, soul and metal, so I wonder why we would think that the 701s are suitable for jazz and classical but not rock. I think this misconception is because people that focus on rock first tend to be listening through systems with the upper bass and lower mids seriously pumped up. Most consumer oriented speakers that you'll hear in the big box stores have this hump. People hear it so much that they think it's natural.

I completely agree. Jazz and classical require much better bass. This is why I think a lot of people who use the k701 for classical and jazz especially are fond of them. However, jazz and classical do not require more bass than rock, pop, metal, and especially rap/hip hop from my experience. This is why I keep using the term bass heavy. It is the only way I can explain it. The k701 lacks impact and presence but has the dynamics, detail, and extension that goes really well with jazz, classical, etc..

And when I had my speaker setup, I had a nice pair of studio monitors(paradigm and nht) so I don't think that that it would have fooled me into preferring unnatural bass. Do you think that paradigm atoms would suffer from the same problems as the speakers you mentioned? Either way, I know this is not the case with my current headphone setup.

By chance, have you heard the grado hp1000? They have much more bass than the k701's while being tight, controlled, and dynamic. If so, did you find their bass unrealistic?

 

[dcstep]

Quote:

Originally Posted by number1sixerfan /img/forum/go_quote.gif I completely agree. Jazz and classical require much better bass. This is why I think a lot of people who use the k701 for classical and jazz especially are fond of them. However, jazz and classical do not require more bass than rock, pop, metal, and especially rap/hip hop from my experience. This is why I keep using the term bass heavy. It is the only way I can explain it. The k701 lacks impact and presence but has the dynamics, detail, and extension that goes really well with jazz, classical, etc.. ...

Rock, pop, metal, and rap/hip only require more bass for those that like the bass artificially pushed up, which is MOST people. It's not the best way to listen to that music, IMHO, but it IS what most people prefer. A very large part of the population actually prefers very distorted, loud bass. You can hear some of those goof balls going down the street from two blocks away, inside your house. That kind of bass requires huge EQ and specialized equipment, like the UE EB (extended bass) in-ear phones. Of course, when you pump up the bass like that you lose the mids. Headphones for that kind of listening aren't really suitable for anything but distorted bass, IMHO.

Dave

 

[number1sixerfan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcstep /img/forum/go_quote.gif Rock, pop, metal, and rap/hip only require more bass for those that like the bass artificially pushed up, which is MOST people.

Sorry, but this really doesn't apply to most* people here. There are people who will just EQ the bass to no end but we are not talking about about most people, we are talking about head-fi. People that are dedicated to a real representation of their music. Most people have no problem to $20 computer speakers that sound distorted and crappy, but that is probably not the people here at head-fi. Just because I find the k701 inadequate for certain genres due to their bass does not mean I prefer boomy or artificial bass. It has nothing to do with the genre requiring more bass. It is that those genres are more bass heavy. You can listen to a hip hop song like "big poppa" by notorious b.i.g. on a good studio monitor and the bass will be prevalent and hard hitting. It should be hard hitting on any system, as it is the nature of the song and genre.

 

[dcstep]

"Bass heavy" evidently has nothing to do with extension and accuracy, oh exalted one. If you don't think big poppa has artificially pumped up bass (in the mix) then I don't see how we can talk about this. It doesn't matter where the EQ is added, it's still there, muddying up the works.

There is one place in pop where I do hear extreme bass extension. That would be some synth music, like with Peter Gabriel. I will concede that synth can rival the demands for bass of classical music. OTOH, rock kick drums, electric bass and normal keyboards just don't come close to the demands on a system as organ, tympani, concert bass drum, double basses, contra-bass basoon, BB tuba, etc.

Of course, we're all free to chose the phones we prefer for whatever music, for whatever reason. I find the Senns too thick in the mids, so I don't use them for anything. I'm curious to try the AT 5000s, but I'm not going to get a collection of cans, since I'll always prefer listening through speakers. I prefer one set of cans for everything, so if I find something better than the AKGs I'll sell the AKGs.

Dave

 

[LawnGnome]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcstep /img/forum/go_quote.gif "Bass heavy" evidently has nothing to do with extension and accuracy, oh exalted one. If you don't think big poppa has artificially pumped up bass (in the mix) then I don't see how we can talk about this. It doesn't matter where the EQ is added, it's still there, muddying up the works. There is one place in pop where I do hear extreme bass extension. That would be some synth music, like with Peter Gabriel. I will concede that synth can rival the demands for bass of classical music. OTOH, rock kick drums, electric bass and normal keyboards just don't come close to the demands on a system as organ, tympani, concert bass drum, double basses, contra-bass basoon, BB tuba, etc. Of course, we're all free to chose the phones we prefer for whatever music, for whatever reason. I find the Senns too thick in the mids, so I don't use them for anything. I'm curious to try the AT 5000s, but I'm not going to get a collection of cans, since I'll always prefer listening through speakers. I prefer one set of cans for everything, so if I find something better than the AKGs I'll sell the AKGs. Dave

It's synthesized sound anyways, so how can you say it is EQ and just not the level it was synthed at?