[Stubearblack]

Currently running the 240's out of my Scarlett 2i2. How much difference in sound will I get with a decent amp?
 
Also, can someone give me a link to some decent pads? Liking the sound of these with rock and metal, but they are pretty uncomfortable. I've had to adjust and readjust frequently. Are these any good? Couldn't find the ones that the previous poster mentioned.

 

[killz4gold]

Hard to say, it would have to be wall powered one, not the usb.
I guess only subtle differences , completely not worth the price.
with wall powered one, bas should be better.
As I have E10K and M3 and M3 has more body/mass to the sound.
I would go better headphones first - Q701/K712 or diffrent sound signature - DT990

 

[Fedx]

After some reading I have decided to try for myself both beyer pads:
ED990 VB and ED770 VB
already have the super soft leather pads form custom ones pro...



Will post impression after testing both beyer pads....

@killz4gold Sorry to resume such an old topic, do you remember your impressions with the Beyerdynamic pads? Everybody talks about the great comfort they provide, but nobody says anything detailed on how they change the sound (apart from the classic velour effect). Have you tried the AKG velour pads or other pads, too?

 

[metal571]

@killz4gold Sorry to resume such an old topic, do you remember your impressions with the Beyerdynamic pads? Everybody talks about the great comfort they provide, but nobody says anything detailed on how they change the sound (apart from the classic velour effect). Have you tried the AKG velour pads or other pads, too?

I guess I could try the 770Vs on my 240 mk2 since I own a DT770 80 ohm now. But I did try the velour 240 pads on it and it was horrible - the problem is far more of a detail issue than an FR issue. All the treble gets much more hazed over. As uncomfortable as the stock 240 pleather pads are, that's the better option detail wise over the velours.

 

[Fedx]

I guess I could try the 770Vs on my 240 mk2 since I own a DT770 80 ohm now. But I did try the velour 240 pads on it and it was horrible - the problem is far more of a detail issue than an FR issue. All the treble gets much more hazed over. As uncomfortable as the stock 240 pleather pads are, that's the better option detail wise over the velours.

I have the MKII too, I noticed the loss of details with their velour pads but I prefer the overall sound and comfort compared to the pleather pads, anyway. I'm searching for new pads to get a little bit of highs and details back, while reducing the muddiness/boom of the low-mids (I don't expect to hear a completely different headphones, but a little improvement would be enough), and improving the comfort.
The problem is that in my country I can only find the Beyerdynamic pads and some Brainwavz (the velour and the hybrid), and I'm quite on a budget so I can't order stuff with high shipping costs, so any input and thought on the Beyerdynamic pads is greatly appreciated!

 

[Fedx]

In the end I got the Beyerdynamic pads, I got a discount on Amazon, so I used it...

The feeling is almost great, the pads are incredible soft, you almost don't feel them around your ears, and overall the headphones become really comfortable. I wrote "almost" because the tip of my left ear touches the inner ring of the pad and that's quite annoying, and it hurts. I'm trying rotating the pad, there're spots where they hurt and spots where they just touch. Let's see if I will find the right spot.

Sound:
it loses completely the "mid-bass bloat". That wasn't a problem for my taste, because it was right before the "annoying" point. There were tracks where I could ear it more than others, but it was ok. With the Beyerdynamic pads it's gone, maybe because they are way more "open", or because they are thinner, but it's gone.
This has a cons: with the mid-bass field clear I could hear better the other sides of the spectrum. It then becomes clear where the bass rolls off and the highs are way more intense. At first I thought "ok, this is nice", because details were clearer and the soundstage was better, but after a day of listening, added to the fact that I had to turn the volume up (there's way less isolation with these pads and you lose the "thump" of the mids), my ears were hurting.
The Beyerdynamic foam disks cut the highs more than the AKG disks, but they weren't enough. So, I went back to the @MrTechAgent post and I tried using both disks, as he suggested (with the AKG on top because they are wider), and now they are pretty good. Highs are less evident, so they don't hurt my ears no more, and the mids are a tad back.
Overall now they are quite balanced, not bass-heavy, but they are honest and the sound is still warm and defined enough to enjoy music. More push from the amplifier is required anyway, compared to the AKG stock pads.
I won't try covering the holes of the pads with tape, because I don't have good tape at home and I'm not a fan of enhancing bass: if there's not enough bass to begin with and it's not defined I'd rather not have them (anyway, there're a bit there).

This is it
I just hope to find a comfortable position for the left pad, I'd like to avoid spending other 30€ for the Brainwavz pads, and I'm a bit scared by their thickness, I don't want the bloat back... (and, of course, I have no way to try them...)

 

[Streuwinkel]

I just got mine last week and the first impression was great. I bought them for Hard/Alternative/Indie Rock and they deliver! Also wearing glasses, I wanted to make sure I don't need "good seal" for them to sound as advertised, as well as hear the door bell and myself when using a mic. So I looked for open headphones and there wasn't much to pick from frankly.
Then lying on my bed listening to the Battlestar Galactica OST for a change, I started noticing how the base was overpowering some tracks. Break-in effect? The other day I also noticed the hissing sibilants in speech the people talked about at around 7kHz. And when I listened to sine wave swipes it also became apparent that the highs have some massive left-right imbalance.
As I'll be using them mostly on my Windows PC, I opted for the equalizer solution with EqualizerAPO, which allows you to independently equalize the left and right channel and add as many sliders as you need instead of being limited to 10 or 16 fixed frequencies. The sine sweeps helped me balancing left and right and spotting loudness variations. Now the hissing is gone, the base is moderated and the highs are more airy and linear. I can post a bit of a tutorial, if anyone is interested.

 

[Outaphase]

I love my K240s for a specific reason: the leading edge of high-energy impulses are suppressed, leading to longer-term monitoring sessions.

When I first got them I was fully aware of the "grainy" treble based on reports here. Sure enough, I heard it compared to some other cans. But it bugged me until I *think* I found the reason why:

I mean I'm totally happy with them, but I looked at some chart somewhere that showed the "impulse" response was initially negative-going. Bingo. What I detected sonically was like there was a disconnect with cymbals, triangles, cowbells, that sort of thing. Slow, sheesh, whatever you want to name it.

So here's my Monty Python like theory that is all mine.
The AKG 240s remove the initial "strike" of metallic instruments like cymbals, triangles, and so forth so all you hear is the "ring" and not the strike. Part of the "grain" may either be what's left of the strike settling down, or perhaps being able to hear the very first parts of the "ring" for the first time. It was classical music with triangles that got me confused actually, and then of course rock etc.

Now I can actually see it in recorded videos - the drummer puts the hammer down on the cymbals, but there is a disconnect between the suppressed strike followed by the ring. Almost like having a separate drummer and ghostly "cymbal player". It's trippy to watch, but I suppose is part of the reason I can have 240's on my head for 6 hours or more at a stretch.

I don't know how AKG does it - is one side wired out of phase on purpose? Not sure, but for sure - watching action movies with the 240's don't have the aural impact that other cans do. Then again, I can watch or listen to sources with gunshots and the like without fatigue.

That's my theory anyway. But now that I've convinced myself this is what is going on, my "quirky" little 240's will be sticking around for my non-super-audiophile needs.

 

[Streuwinkel]

The graphs made me cringe a little inside when comparing to something "reasonable" like the DT880:
https://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/hp/akg-k-240-studio.php#rw51
https://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/hp/beyerdynamic-dt-880-pro.php#rw51
30 Hz square looks more like a 100 Hz sine pulse.

So from the graphs we can tell that there is phase inversion and it could easily be fixed in Equalizer APO with the channel copy operation and a -1 multiplier:

But listening to the phase test sample here I think that my unit is actually good, as the first center voice feels right in the center of my head while the final part sounds bizarrely stereo with no clear location.

 

[Outaphase]

I went down that road with the graphs myself, but considered them a guide so I bought a pair letting my ears do the talking instead. I fully expected them to be abandoned in the closet, but not so ...

I've run simple online tests for polarity, and it doesn't seem like just a simple polarity swap on one channel. There seems to be something more refined than that.

This may not be the ultimate test, but was good for a quickie:

https://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php

The binaural test totally freaked me out. You'll see.

One thing about the K240's that really pleased is that when listening to classical music with a lot of woodwinds like clarinet and oboes, or flutes, they can hit notes with some other cans that reach levels that can drill a hole in my head. The 240's hung in there without being dull. Classical isn't my main genre, and I do mostly analytical listening with it. So I don't get sub-bass thunder from tympani's, but the rest is satisfactory. And other than triangle hits, or maybe gigantic cymbal crashes, the impulse suppression is barely noticeable.

Forgot to mention I'm using the velour pads and the slight difference is still acceptable to me and better comfort of course. I bought them separately, but probably should have just gotten the MKII package which already has them as optional. Then again, the gold/black scheme (think Firebird Trans-Am, or John Player Special race cars of the era) would have been silver-black. I played with other pads, but they tweaked the sound strangely so I stuck to the oem supplied options.

Interestingly enough, when looking at charts for the K712 / 812's, I see a similar impulse-suppression, just less dramatic. I like the 240's so much as an all-rounder, that when my Schiit Heresy gets here, I might go straight for those!

 

[Outaphase]

MORE COWBELL!

One of the tunes that bugged my parents so much that they bought me headphones as a kid:

Procol Harum - Whiskey Train

With the K240's, go ahead and crank it. Whaddya' know? Needs more cowbell!

Of course Robin Trower and the rest of the band will get you rockin 70's style, but the K240's are probably not the best to use if you want to get the best out of this song!

OR, play it 5 times in succession, and still be able to hold a conversation when you take the 240's off!

 

[Outaphase]

AKG K712 vs K240 - still keeping my 240's!

Despite the obvious differences in FR and all that, there is a reason I will be keeping my 240's *forever*. Even though it is still early days with my 712's, there are some glaringly obvious out of the box differences - and why the 240 to me is the best set of studio cans, vs "musical" cans in terms of overall fidelity. As I suspected above. I'll be wearing them for different reasons.

Drummers note: The VERY first thing I noticed with the 712's, is that the leading edge high energy impulses can now be heard. You can hear the strikes of the sticks on cymbals / triangles and the like. And if mic'ed loud enough, this interferes with the on-stage presence. Much like a human walking up to an unseen nest of hornets, you tread carefully. Back away a little. Or in this case, lower the volume.

If Buddy Rich was trying to give me lessons and I was wearing the 712's, he'd be saying "Hey kid, step a little closer so you can see what I'm doing. Maybe you should put on those 240's so you don't sound like a wimp".

Stretching things a bit, if you were a performer, you may actually MISS subtle cues coming from other instruments due to hearing the "beehive" of impulses and play on the conservative side. Know what I mean?

BASS: Simple to cure. Right - we all know the 240's have a mid-bass punch. Depending on what you want, you can knock it to perfection pretty easily:

1) If you want bass to be tighter, then get an amp. I'm currently using a Schitt Heresy for this purpose. Get what rocks your boat.

2) If you want to dial-back the punch / impact, then EQ 100-150 hz or so down 3db or so.

Pretty magical combination if you ask me. For many genres, but of course not all. You are not just on-stage, but are now a performer. With the 712's, I'm part of the audience in a very good room. It's not JUST a soundstage or frequency-response thing - but an impulse thing. I'm just a bit wary of the beehive.

Happy days - off to break-in the 712's just by listening. I'm glad to know that the 240's still serve a very valuable purpose, and every "audiophile" should own a pair with this in mind - if nothing more than to check out the difference between a true set of studio-work cans, (hi-fi but with long-term ear protection) vs musical-enjoyment cans.

 

[Outaphase]

But what about the "Flagship" AKG K812 in regards to the lowly K240?

I just watched Tyll Hertsens review in 2014 at Innerfidelity about these, and saw his disappointment about the "impulse" response and the quirky treble. Remind you of the K240 does it?

Unfortunately, I can't afford them to compare. So I'll make a total WAG here. Intended for "professionals", and not necessarily for recreational or audiophile type use, like the K240s, that negative going overall impulse grains out, or maybe even is hurtful psychologically if your brain interprets this as a defect, and not something done on purpose.

I'm not doubting Tyll's experience. I just wish I had the cash to grab these, give them a few hours to exercise, and then compare for myself and see if this same ear-protection / long term / I have to live in these for 16 hours at a time editing action-films with gunshots and the like in them.....

Again - total guess, but I don't think in my lifetime I'll EVER see a K240 vs K812 impression thread.

 

[Outaphase]

Mentally comparing the K812's to the K240s got me closer to understanding:

The 812's are the what the beloved early K240 "Sextett" model, wanted to be!

That is, the six tuned passive radiators in the Sextett were an attempt to improve bass fidelity. Yet all the while, we still have that quirky impulse response up top which protects audio worker's ears. Entirely listenable, from a musical standpoint it is intriguing to say the least, albeit not true fidelity.

So now with the K812's you have the improved fidelity overall, yet still have that ear-protecting impulse thing going on. Hence the "grown up" Sextett.

I think this brings me closer to understanding the AKG house sound up top at least - at least for the true studio cans, or "professional" cans. Man, do I really want to try a pair of 812's now to see if my "theory" holds up or is just a lot of hot-air.

 

[Outaphase]

GROUP DELAY in K240

Not talked about much, but I'll be the one to go out on a limb about it. The "groove" of the 240 can be explained by the purposeful introduction of opposing group delay in each ear. Use "Select Another Product" in the dropdowns to compare against other cans.

https://www.rtings.com/headphones/1-3-1/graph#387/3189

Thing is, nobody wants bad group delay. Witness Rogers High Fidelity talk about it:



The K240 (and some others) seem to *purposely* introduce slight opposing GD for some function. And that function to me as an owner, is the killing of the leading edge of high/fast things like gunshots, hard metallic cymbal strikes (yet you still hear the "ring").

It's a timing thing - ear protection by timing out the leading edge of super-fast impulses, and the general explanation for "grain" throughout the treble. Here, grain is not a function of frequency-response, but one of slight alterations to *timing*. Overall less fatiguing with rough - nay even dangerous input. The fidelity isn't really lost, it is just slightly out of time. Lets real studio workers forced to wear cans protect themselves, yet still get the job done with decent fidelity - even if not considered true audiophile status.

So that's the K240's "groove" as best as I can understand it. It's my theory, and I'm sticking to it.