[ex0du5]

I find the K702 too fatiguing for my taste, but the bass and vocals sound quite natural to me. A few sibilant recordings don't do to well, but good recordings do.

 

[scompton]

I think it's funny how people take offense if someone doesn't like something they like or vice versa.  This thread is full of it on both sides.

 

[audiofil]

 
Maybe AKG laminate their sound in plastic and the lack of bass and honky midrange is misinterpreted by certain 'hifi buffs' as amazing clarity?
 

 
You seem very positive about what you're saying even though you've listened to only one headphone made by AKG in your particular setup.
That's a big "MAYBE"
 

 

 

[Pioneer31]

Quote:

I'll take the K601 if you're willing to sell cheap.

 


Quote:

 
As much as K601 afficionados would like to believe, these phones just don't cut it for some types of music. For example, I'm playing the Inception Soundtrack right now, and from the K601, the presentation just lacks the bombast the music has when listened to via my Sennheiser HD600. In contrast, Diana Krall sounds excellent on the K601, as does Niladri Kumar's Electric Sitar. The fact is that these phones just can't deliver the goods when it comes to things like synth bass, deep and sustained lows, and the like. I have the HD600 for that. conversely, the HD600 trails behind the K601 in terms of soundstage, Treble delivery AND Bass Texture - Yes, the K601 has great bass, but not the kind that would do for say, DnB or House music.
 
As far as Amplification is concerned, Trust Me, these phones require far more voltage swing than the specs would have you believing. Why AKG would make phones that have such excessive demands for power is beyond me. I think the bottleneck in your setup is the impedance mismatch between the amp and the phones, but if you are simply not happy with the presentation of the AKG K601, no amp will fix the issue for you. I say Cut and Run - put them up for sale here, and use the proceeds towards something else for your Hi-Fi - I'm beginning to think you're more of a Speaker person - sometimes Headphones just don't do it for some people. After all, you've gone through most of the major players - Grado, Ultrasone, Et. Al. without finding the right sound. I think trying to upgrade something that does not work for you is throwing money into a bottomless pit.
 
Get away while you still can

No, that is not the case. I appreciate headphones as well as speakers.
 
I don't think I am in anyway approaching spending the amount of time and money on headphones as many on this forum, you only need to look at the "headphones I've owned" threads.
 
What I have found is that 'higher end' headphones can be more difficult to choose. There is more difference in signature between different models than there is with cheaper headphones. To date, I haven't found a model that has what I want.(I'm probably looking for a more refined, more comfortable, more 3D Grado type) This doesn't mean that the model doesn't exist. I do read lots of reviews but we all hear (and explain) things differently. One man's smooth is another man's harsh. Some hear vivid mids where others find them recessed.
 
The AKG is a great example. I'm hearing a sound that I don't like. Maybe the resonant frequency of my ear canals is different or my brain interprets differently, who knows? I certainly don't subscribe to the view that there is a 'correct sounding' headphone, nor would it matter.
 
Do the same sound afficiandos realise that, for example, cinematic film does not quite look like real life. Have you seen a video image and a film image side by side? Film 'colours' reality. Does it matter? Do people complain?
 
Regardless of this, I still think AKG is not in the running for "most realistic sounding" headphones
 
.

 

[Pioneer31]

Quote:

 
Maybe AKG laminate their sound in plastic and the lack of bass and honky midrange is misinterpreted by certain 'hifi buffs' as amazing clarity?
 

 
You seem very positive about what you're saying even though you've listened to only one headphone made by AKG in your particular setup.
That's a big "MAYBE"
 

 

I've not quite leaped to the conclusions of another poster who thinks that many other brands are applying special FX and bloating or warming the bass.
 
That really is a HUGE generalisation
 
I've not heard the k701 but every review I've read suggests that it is more analytical/cold/sterile than the 601. Other AKG model reviews (e.g. 271) suggest bass lightness, so I put 2+2 and assume this is their 'house' sound?  

 

[Pioneer31]

Quote:

I think it's funny how people take offense if someone doesn't like something they like or vice versa.  This thread is full of it on both sides.

Well I was asking to see if anyone shared my views but it wasn't long before I was told that "its your equipment mate", as if they were the authority on sound reproduction.
 
I don't want people to say I'm right. I'm putting out feelers to see if anyone hears what I hear. 

 

[scompton]

 
Quote:

 
Maybe AKG laminate their sound in plastic and the lack of bass and honky midrange is misinterpreted by certain 'hifi buffs' as amazing clarity?
 

 
You seem very positive about what you're saying even though you've listened to only one headphone made by AKG in your particular setup.
That's a big "MAYBE"
 

 

 
I've only heard the K701 at meets, but at one time I owned the K400, K401, K500, K501, and K601 and they all have a very similar sound.  There's definitely a sound signature for that line of head phones that people either like or don't like.  I happen to like it and still own the K601 although I rarely listen to it. 
 
Quote:

Quote:

I think it's funny how people take offense if someone doesn't like something they like or vice versa.  This thread is full of it on both sides.

Well I was asking to see if anyone shared my views but it wasn't long before I was told that "its your equipment mate", as if they were the authority on sound reproduction.
 
I don't want people to say I'm right. I'm putting out feelers to see if anyone hears what I hear. 

 
My comment wasn't meant as an attack. I've just seen a few threads lately where people were getting a bit stupid about people not having the same taste.  One recent Grado thread started turning into a flame war because some people took great offense that others don't like Grados.  The thread eventually was locked.
 
I think the your question and the thread is a good one.  I think there is a little to much of "its your equipment mate" by people who have no idea if the Rotel has a good headphone out or not.  Unless the Rotel has serious problems, like an after thought op amp headphone amp, a new amp isn't going to make a huge difference.  I've taken my K601 to many meets and it's been plugged into many amps and the sound signature doesn't change much.  It's not one of the headphones that needs and amp that has synergy with it, just one with adequate power to drive it.  I have heard other headphones that do change significantly with different amps, so I know such beasts exist, the K601 just isn't one of them.
 

 

[pp312]

Quote:

 
But the majority of integrated amplifiers have, at best, a glorified CMoy-like headphone amp with wildly varying quality.
In my mind this clearly indicates it's just an afterthought for the occasional headphone user. Remember these are speaker amps and most people use them as such.

This is a common misconception and it's been covered many times so there's no point even debating it. The fact is, there were several long threads about this where it was show conclusively that virtually all stereo integrated amps and receivers drive their HP jacks from the main amps through resistors, not 2c op-amps, as is commonly believed. This is from the manufacturers themselves, whom a poster went to the trouble of emailing (bless his little heart), but I knew it anyway from having opened so many amps over the years, However, this 2c op-amp myth just won't seem to go away, and I'm officially at a loss how to make it. 

 

[rhythmdevils]

I dont think headphones change their basic sound sig all that much with different amps as long as they are decent amps. I think amps affect other things more like dynamics, sound stage, speed, clarity

 

[scompton]

Quote:

Quote:

 
But the majority of integrated amplifiers have, at best, a glorified CMoy-like headphone amp with wildly varying quality.
In my mind this clearly indicates it's just an afterthought for the occasional headphone user. Remember these are speaker amps and most people use them as such.

This is a common misconception and it's been covered many times so there's no point even debating it. The fact is, there were several long threads about this where it was show conclusively that virtually all stereo integrated amps and receivers drive their HP jacks from the main amps through resistors, not 2c op-amps, as is commonly believed. This is from the manufacturers themselves, whom a poster went to the trouble of emailing (bless his little heart), but I knew it anyway from having opened so many amps over the years, However, this 2c op-amp myth just won't seem to go away, and I'm officially at a loss how to make it. 

 
NADs are a case in point.  They use resistors, not op amps.  I'm curious what model NAD you had audiofil?  I had a NAD 3020 that I used to drive stats and used as a headphone amp.  It was fine with almost all of my headphones, except the HD580.  For some reason, it made the HD580 unlistenable.  It convinced me that such a thing as synergy between an amp and headphone exists, or in the case, a complete lack thereof.
 
Edit:  rhythmdevils, you've been listening to too many orthos.  They spoil the mids in every thing else

 

 

[rhythmdevils]

too many orthos?  I don't understand....unable to compute...shutting down...
 
I want to try some integrated amps those old Yamahas are really sexy

 

[Pioneer31]

A few people echoing my sentiments in the "headphone I regret buying" thread.
 
To be fair, the 601's sound "better" with mp3 through my pc soundcard. The volume is low but the glary, edgy, plastick sound seems to be diminished,
 
Still zero bass though

 

[Deep Funk]

Quote:

 
As much as K601 afficionados would like to believe, these phones just don't cut it for some types of music. For example, I'm playing the Inception Soundtrack right now, and from the K601, the presentation just lacks the bombast the music has when listened to via my Sennheiser HD600. In contrast, Diana Krall sounds excellent on the K601, as does Niladri Kumar's Electric Sitar. The fact is that these phones just can't deliver the goods when it comes to things like synth bass, deep and sustained lows, and the like. I have the HD600 for that. conversely, the HD600 trails behind the K601 in terms of soundstage, Treble delivery AND Bass Texture - Yes, the K601 has great bass, but not the kind that would do for say, DnB or House music.
 
As far as Amplification is concerned, Trust Me, these phones require far more voltage swing than the specs would have you believing. Why AKG would make phones that have such excessive demands for power is beyond me. I think the bottleneck in your setup is the impedance mismatch between the amp and the phones, but if you are simply not happy with the presentation of the AKG K601, no amp will fix the issue for you. I say Cut and Run - put them up for sale here, and use the proceeds towards something else for your Hi-Fi - I'm beginning to think you're more of a Speaker person - sometimes Headphones just don't do it for some people. After all, you've gone through most of the major players - Grado, Ultrasone, Et. Al. without finding the right sound. I think trying to upgrade something that does not work for you is throwing money into a bottomless pit.
 
Get away while you still can

AKGs are sometimes very power hungry and picky too, up to the extent that they become annoying unless you build a set up around them. 
 
Very informative post...
 
Regarding integrated amplifiers, some of them are better than you think. I call it a Head-Fi-thing that those components are so underestimated since the 'seperates-are-always-better-ghost' wanders around this forum. 

 

[audiofil]

Quote:

NADs are a case in point.  They use resistors, not op amps.  I'm curious what model NAD you had audiofil?  I had a NAD 3020 that I used to drive stats and used as a headphone amp.  It was fine with almost all of my headphones, except the HD580.  For some reason, it made the HD580 unlistenable.  It convinced me that such a thing as synergy between an amp and headphone exists, or in the case, a complete lack thereof.
 

I think you are right about using resistors, so I stand corrected. The NAD integrated I used to have was a 320BEE.
 
Interesting that you've found a poor match with HD580.
As I've mentioned in my previous post my NAD amp sounded quite bad with HD600 and HD650.

 

[pp312]

I think the 650 at least needs a lean amp. The NADs tend to have a rather full sound with what seems like a slightly over-emphasised lower treble and rolled off upper treble. I know the measurements don't confirm that but that's the impression. I owned the 320BEE and used it with the 650, but could never quite come to terms with the balance despite a very pure and natural tonal quality--a virtue of NADs. Rotel and Denon amps would probably be a better match, and in fact I've just been hearing good things from the 650 with a vintage Denon PMA-350.
 
Still not sure why a Senn 580 would be unlistenable on a NAD 320. What was the actual problem?