[Pioneer31]

Thanks, PP312. You're the first person in the 'dislike' camp ....I'm not going crazy.
 
I actaully am not a massive Sennheiser fan either but they are at least listenable.
 
I'm just about to update my sig but I have tried Grado, Ultrasone and currently Shure, none of which made me want to consider buying different headphone amps.
 
It's just my personal opinion but if the headphones require you to change other parts of your setup, then they are a FAIL

 

[anadin]

Nobody is telling you that you have to like the K601 or K702, what we are saying is this headphone is incredibly power hungry and only works to its potential with certain Headphone amps.
 
Thats why I suggested you get a Heed CanAmp as it goes great with AKG heaphones.

 

[Pioneer31]

Serious Question: What in your opinion would change, soundwise, if I bought said amp?

 

[Pioneer31]

Quote:

When i received my K601 i hate it at first but then after a long burn-in my ears was getting used to it, i then began to like it and sold my others headphones.

The thing is your ears must be used to hd595 sound, it you had the K601 and then the hd595 you probably have complained about too much bass and other differences or maybe you are hearing the problems in your system.

Yesterday i wash my K601 pads and the sound is more involving since the pads are and softer and thus the ears are closer to the drivers.

But i understand the k601 sound is not for everyone.

That's another point I didn't mention, the drivers are inclined and some way from your ears. I can't help feeling this helps it to sound anaemic. I'm not a basshead by any means, that's why I offloaded the Ultrasones 

 

[pp312]

Quote:

Quote:

Well, yes it is but I cannot imagine there will be a drastic change in sound signature from a dedicated headphone amp, unless that amp drastically colours the sound
 

I can't explain like others, but an amp can change how the phone behaves dramatically. To an extent, it has nothing to do with personal taste or so called 'colors'.

I don't generally challenge statements directly on this forum, but I have to challenge this one. I do not believe an amp can "dramatically" change the sound of a headphone where the headphone is already being driven adequately, such as by an integrated amp, and I don't believe such a thing has ever been demonstated. Of course, your idea of "dramatically" may differ from mine, and if so, I think we need to remove some of the hyperbole from discussions of the effects of amps. Most reasonable people, even the owners and supporters of high-end amps, will agree that "dramatic" is not an adjective rightly applied to the (relatively subtle) effects under discussion.  

 

[pp312]

Quote:

Nobody is telling you that you have to like the K601 or K702, what we are saying is this headphone is incredibly power hungry and only works to its potential with certain Headphone amps.
 
Thats why I suggested you get a Heed CanAmp as it goes great with AKG heaphones.

I'm sure your advice is given in good faith, but do you really think the 601 working to its full potential would ameliorate the OPs harsh judgement? Even an indifferent integrated amp will drive it to 80% of its potential, and the way the OP hates this phone a further 20% isn't going to help. Sometimes it's just better to move on to the next porridge bowl.

 

[Arctia]

Amp doesn't change a headphone's signature. AKG's top line lacks low end, lacks presence > no warmth. Obviously the OP doesn't like it, so he needs another headphone.
 
An easy way to add presence to the K601/70x is to put it on your head as usual, then move both drivers towards the front of your head, such that the back of your ears are snugly touching the cloth material. I always listen to mine this way, it's a completely different experience.

 

[tagosaku]

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Well, yes it is but I cannot imagine there will be a drastic change in sound signature from a dedicated headphone amp, unless that amp drastically colours the sound
 

I can't explain like others, but an amp can change how the phone behaves dramatically. To an extent, it has nothing to do with personal taste or so called 'colors'.

I don't generally challenge statements directly on this forum, but I have to challenge this one. I do not believe an amp can "dramatically" change the sound of a headphone where the headphone is already being driven adequately, such as by an integrated amp, and I don't believe such a thing has ever been demonstated. Of course, your idea of "dramatically" may differ from mine, and if so, I think we need to remove some of the hyperbole from discussions of the effects of amps. Most reasonable people, even the owners and supporters of high-end amps, will agree that "dramatic" is not an adjective rightly applied to the (relatively subtle) effects under discussion.  

I don't mind anyone disagreeing with me. And correct me if I am wrong, but the OP stated using a headphone out of an integrated amp. I am not familiar with the particular headphone out. But sounded like there is a good chance of his phones not being 'adequately' driven. In which case, I'd still 'believe' that there will be significant change once the phones are properly driven.
 
And if there is a problem with the word 'dramatic', that is fine with me

 

[p a t r i c k]

Pioneer31 writes:

Who says your 702's represent 'good hifi'. What IS good hifi?

Good hi fi lets you hear the recording you are listening to.

Pioneer31 continues:

No musician worth his salt could listen to the AKG's on my setup and say they sound ANYTHING like a live performance.

Well my AKG K 702s certainly present live performances with tremendous accuracy.

I'm certain musicians worth their salt or otherwise would definitely agree.

I recommend you sell your headphones to someone who will appreciate them.

They might well be bought by a musician worth his or her salt

 

 

[audiofil]

Quote:

I'm sure your advice is given in good faith, but do you really think the 601 working to its full potential would ameliorate the OPs harsh judgement? Even an indifferent integrated amp will drive it to 80% of its potential, and the way the OP hates this phone a further 20% isn't going to help. Sometimes it's just better to move on to the next porridge bowl.

Very well put.
 
 
Headphones driven by integrated amplifiers are a mixed bag. In fact, when I've started getting serious about headphones my first "head-amp" was my speaker amp, a NAD integrated.
It wasn't particularly bad or good, but I had nothing better to drive my headphones, and dedicated amplifiers were scarce and very expensive to import.
When I've moved up the ladder towards HD600 and HD650 I had to buy a headphone amplifier and ditch the NAD. It just sounded piss-poor (plenty loud, but lots of sibilance, muddy and flat) by comparison.
Even more so with AKGs.
 
It's impossible to generalize the quality of headphone out of an integrated amplifier.
There are a few truly remarkable (some models from Leben, Luxman, etc), where the amp as a whole is used to drive the headphones via a state of the art resistive network (impedance matcher). These are high end amplifiers and it's obvious that the manufacturers have put a lot of thought in the design of the headphone out.
There are other integrated amps which are quite decent with headphones. They usually have a separate part of the circuit designed as a mini-headphone amplifier. Some I've even seen employing class A biasing, discrete components etc
 
But the majority of integrated amplifiers have, at best, a glorified CMoy-like headphone amp with wildly varying quality.
In my mind this clearly indicates it's just an afterthought for the occasional headphone user. Remember these are speaker amps and most people use them as such.

 

[p a t r i c k]

Quote:

Amp doesn't change a headphone's signature. AKG's top line lacks low end, lacks presence > no warmth. Obviously the OP doesn't like it, so he needs another headphone.

Well I agree with you that good amplification is not going to turn the AKG's into the kind of headphones he desires, so he is best to just sell them.
 
Unfortunately the trend for some time now has been to make fairly awful hi fi which applies warmth, creates a bloated low end and places an overemphasised edge on the frontmost audio in the recording.
 
Thank goodness AKG do not do this and in their better headphones they continue to pursue really first class audio that marvellously gets out of the way of the music and lets you hear what the musicians are actually playing without "special FX".
 
The AKGs really do show their stuff with good amplification. I recommend transparent amplification not the "warm things up" amplifiers that have become fashionable.
 
 

 

[dxps26]

 
As much as K601 afficionados would like to believe, these phones just don't cut it for some types of music. For example, I'm playing the Inception Soundtrack right now, and from the K601, the presentation just lacks the bombast the music has when listened to via my Sennheiser HD600. In contrast, Diana Krall sounds excellent on the K601, as does Niladri Kumar's Electric Sitar. The fact is that these phones just can't deliver the goods when it comes to things like synth bass, deep and sustained lows, and the like. I have the HD600 for that. conversely, the HD600 trails behind the K601 in terms of soundstage, Treble delivery AND Bass Texture - Yes, the K601 has great bass, but not the kind that would do for say, DnB or House music.
 
As far as Amplification is concerned, Trust Me, these phones require far more voltage swing than the specs would have you believing. Why AKG would make phones that have such excessive demands for power is beyond me. I think the bottleneck in your setup is the impedance mismatch between the amp and the phones, but if you are simply not happy with the presentation of the AKG K601, no amp will fix the issue for you. I say Cut and Run - put them up for sale here, and use the proceeds towards something else for your Hi-Fi - I'm beginning to think you're more of a Speaker person - sometimes Headphones just don't do it for some people. After all, you've gone through most of the major players - Grado, Ultrasone, Et. Al. without finding the right sound. I think trying to upgrade something that does not work for you is throwing money into a bottomless pit.
 
Get away while you still can

 

[scompton]

I'm in complete aggreement with pp312 on the amp question.  I'm not familiar with the Rotel, but my experience with vintage speaker amps driving headphones is very good.  I think a lot of the prejudice against them have to do with people trying to drive low impedance headphones such as Grados out of them.  The impedance mismatch between a vintage headphone out and low impedance cans sounds awful.  This may or may not be a problem with the K601 since it's 120 ohm impedance was the standard impedance of headphone outs. 
 
IMO, the OP just doesn't like the AKG sound signature.  It's as simple as that.  To try multiple amps to tailor the sound of a headphone you don't like is silly to me.  Sell the K601 and try a headphone with a signature more to your liking.

 

[TobaccoRoad]

I'll take the K601 if you're willing to sell cheap.

 

[Pioneer31]

Quote:

Quote:

Amp doesn't change a headphone's signature. AKG's top line lacks low end, lacks presence > no warmth. Obviously the OP doesn't like it, so he needs another headphone.

Well I agree with you that good amplification is not going to turn the AKG's into the kind of headphones he desires, so he is best to just sell them.
 
Unfortunately the trend for some time now has been to make fairly awful hi fi which applies warmth, creates a bloated low end and places an overemphasised edge on the frontmost audio in the recording.
 
Thank goodness AKG do not do this and in their better headphones they continue to pursue really first class audio that marvellously gets out of the way of the music and lets you hear what the musicians are actually playing without "special FX".
 
The AKGs really do show their stuff with good amplification. I recommend transparent amplification not the "warm things up" amplifiers that have become fashionable.
 
 

As I said earlier, you seem very sure that AKG is "the way it is" and others are fudging the sound.
 
I don't see my system as applying special FX or bloating the bass at all. Rotel Amps are known for having fast controlled bass.
 
Maybe AKG laminate their sound in plastic and the lack of bass and honky midrange is misinterpreted by certain 'hifi buffs' as amazing clarity?
 
I do hope you're not suffering from that old well known disease "it's good because I own it"?