[Ilomaenkimi]

I typically listen to ZMF verite closed or Focal Utopia or Stellia. So switching to the AirPod Max from something like these I guess I could say the AirPod Max is soulless but more likely I’d just say it has poor dynamics and sounds very muddy with bass bleeding very badly into the mids.

Those all are 3000-4000euros headphones(+amplification). With those you propably listen lossless/Hires material?
And you compare 600euros Bluetooth APM with those? Pretty fair.

OR; is APM so good afterall that it deserves that kind of comparison?

EDIT: After listening Focal Stellia everything sounds soulless and poor. IMO

 

[pkcpga]

Those all are 3000-4000euros headphones(+amplification). With those you propably listen lossless/Hires material?
And you compare 600euros Bluetooth APM with those? Pretty fair.

OR; is APM so good afterall that it deserves that kind of comparison?

Stated that comparing them to my main listening phones was not fair but hard not to compare to what you are used to. But even comparing them as I stated to the Meze 99 classic which I feel is similar but the Meze are cleaner and they are a $300 headphone. While something like the hd600’s which is also a $300 headphone are better in all aspects except these are all wired. Was hoping Apple was going to come up with a better Bluetooth format that allowed higher quality music to play but I guess it’s all meant to play with Apple Music. Even if you are ok with the sound for the price, the way you turn off the APM should be unacceptable on it’s own but apples first ideation are usually quickly replaced with a more usable version. If you don’t put these into that stupid non protective case your phone keeps trying to connect with the headphones even if they are on a stand. Multiple times I had to turn Bluetooth off to answer a call at home because my APM were on a stand instead of the case.

 

[tkddans]

Those all are 3000-4000euros headphones(+amplification). With those you propably listen lossless/Hires material?
And you compare 600euros Bluetooth APM with those? Pretty fair.

OR; is APM so good afterall that it deserves that kind of comparison?

EDIT: After listening Focal Stellia everything sounds soulless and poor. IMO

To be fair, it sounds like comparisons were also made against wireless competition too. Not sure how much A/B testing was done by him though. I thought differently of the Sony and Bose than he did it seems. I thought they sounded more than slightly worse.

I love the soul brought in my the APM. The vocals sound wonderful to me and the live performances immerse me more than my HD 800 (despite the 800’s having superior technical driver abilities overall).

 

[woodcans]

Apparently I am not the only one with heat/sweat issues.

 

[angelom]

I experienced repeated heat build up indoors, low humidity, 20c.

Is a surprise more people don't mentioning the heat problem with the APM. But I must saying this problem isn't so bad for me like with the sony xm3 where is always sweat happening very soon. Even the qc35 or nc700 isn't so bad in this aspect like the sony.

Only from memory. I sold my H95s a few weeks ago as I found an IEM that meets my needs of SQ with enough passive isolation. While I really liked the wheels on the 95, I prefer the crown of the APM for volume control. I was never able to quite master the short & quick turns the B&O require for fine adjustments. I also grew to dislike having to adjust the amount of ANC on the B&O. I need my ANC to be either on or off, but, when on, perfect. By perfect I mean satisfactory noise reduction but just as important, no unusual pops/clicks/thumps when the phones encounter noise(s) that they can't properly cancel. The APM is better in this regard but not perfect. I used both sets while walking indoors and out. The APM was better overall but neither was great at certain frequencies/wind/asymmetrical noises.

We have different experiences here, and this is ok. I love the precision of the volume crown of the APM but love more immediate reachability of the volume dial in h95. Like you, I preferring too only on or off for anc and not different levels, but in the h95 you can quickly going max level easily. BUT, for ambient mode I like having more different levels that is available in the h95.

Now, this may be entirely due to the discomfort from the clamp force, but it may also be related to the ANC: I found that after 30 mins or so of wearing the APMs that I began to develop a slight feeling, hard to describe, but somewhere between (or a combination of) vertigo and nausea. Keep in mind this was mild, but still uncomfortable. Again, could have just been the clamp force. Regardless, the APM is/was the most uncomfortable headphone I have ever used.

This is very strange (the vertigo and nausea) you experiencing, the first time I hearing this. In my case, I saying more early today that I'm sometimes getting a little negative reaction in my skin after using for more than 1-1,5 hours (I think this is because of little sweat interacting with the cloth material in the earpads that irritating my skin a little. I never having this problem with other headphones).

From memory, my only complaint sound wise with the H95 was a slight dip in the lower mids/upper bass that I did not notice with the APM, however I did not keep the APM long enough to confirm that it did not have this issue, to my ears. I honestly grew weary of having to wear them, hence their return.

Is pity you can't testing both headphones for sound because is always better having comparisons from people with experience, like you and Bompah (and I), of other anc headphones and of good/excellent wired headphones too.

 

[tkddans]

Apple AirPods Max [SOUND DEMO] Z Reviews

​

Issues abound with sound demos I know. We play these things back through different speakers than the one's being tested, etc. Still, just sharing! Maybe it'll help someone parse something out of what they hear.

EDIT: The demo, playing through my iMac internal speakers, relates some of the concept of the APM's sound. There's clarity, airiness enough around instruments to sound authentic to life, and the bass presence is nice.

EDIT+:: And for reference, here is another demo video comparing it to other headphones.

 

[Amrit-R]

Yes, the design of close back headphones is creating more heat than open back headphones, but in my case the heat of close backs with leather earpads is never excessive or so bad that making my ears sweating. Only with my p7 wireless, h95 and the h9 I can listening for 4/6/8+ hours consecutively without heat and/or sweat discomfort. (the problem with the h9 is the round ear cups don't fitting my ears well)

I have a B&O H9 (first generation, if I remember correctly). Very comfortable headphone. And my ears are apparently a bit smaller. Soundwise imo problematic, a lot of pressure from the noice cancelling and the tuning was so so for me. But, it did for what I bought it for, and it’s an older generation headphone, more recent ones will be better.

Maybe the clamping force of the Apple Max is to some extend responsible for making the Apple Max more uncomfortable than a B&O. Doing something about the clamping force may be beneficial. Not sure if bending the frame is possible.



Otherwise removing the pads, and clamp the Apple Max over a few books might do the trick.

 

[ricksastro]

Decided to try the Drop THX Panda out to compare to my APMs. Only have a few days left to return the APMs if I decide the Pandas are better. I must say they do sound outstanding, but comparing to the APMs is interesting. Here are a bunch of things that are fresh on my mind, many of which I hadn't heard mentioned elsewhere, so perhaps they can help others:

- I'm comparing to the APMs with the Headphone Accommodations on, with audiogram setup from Mimi test. For me, this makes the APMs more present and is how I'd use it day to day.
- Both the APM and Panda are quite enjoyable to listen to. The APMs are a little more forward and have a stronger sub-bass, but not overwhelming. (As a note, I could actually feel 10hz in the Pandas from a sine sweep, but couldn't on the APMs. But at 15 Hz, the APMs were quite strong). I'd say in general the Pandas are more relaxing to listen to and I'd be perfectly happy with them, but they seldom give me that "wow" moment or feel like I'm spelunking a song in a new way. The APMs do this occasionally especially with the bass. That said, I feel more like I'm listening "at" the music with the APMs, where I'm listening "with" the music on the Pandas. Given that I'm usually doing tasks when I'm using headphones, the Pandas will fade more into the background better than the APMs. If I want a critical eyes-closed listening session, my HD600s still bring a content smile to my face.
- Soundstage is similar, maybe a little less directional with the Pandas. Neither compare to the HD600's openness
- On comfort, it's a mixed bag. I have a huge head and they both have a bit more clamping force than I prefer. APMs don't extend -quite- far enough, but they are OK. They both heat up being closed back and I'd say they're pretty close in that regard, but the pleather makes me feel hotter and stickier
- Actually like the headband of the APMs a little better than the Pandas. I seldom forgot the Pandas are on, but sometimes do with the APMs.
- With ANC off, the APMs still block out much more ambient noise than the Pandas. Obviously with ANC on, the APMs are dead quiet (except for my wife's darned parakeet, which I was hoping it would squelch, but it does not much)
- The Pandas have a lot more volume, but I don't find the APMs volume lacking at all. Both sound great cranked up.
- I find neither particularly sibilant but are both fairly bright. Very nice
- I can use the USBC interface of the Pandas to listen to music on my PC (but no mic), presumably while charging...nice for those days when I forgot to charge. Also, the headphone wired plug puts the Pandas into passive mode using no power, where the APM is always "on". Lots of options. That said, I found the USBC is more prone to fall out while using, and my braided cords are a bad idea (transmits every slight rub of the cord to the headphone body). Lightning is a more solid connection, but insane the lightning to headphone jack wasn't included with the APMs.
- Panda comes with all the cords and an awesome case (with a nice magnetic lidded compartment for cords). The APMs, well, you know the story there.
- Pandas are solid, but build quality on the APMs is stellar. Both are pretty heavy especially compared to the HD600s.
- Pandas are more ambidextrous as far as bluetooth codecs and non-ios sources, supporting about everything.
- Using with Videoconferencing, the APMs mic quality is much better than the Pandas. Also, transparency mode on the APMs feel far more natural for talking
- Bluetooth signaling more stable with the APMs...the Pandas stumble a little bit occasionally, but not abnormally
- Like the volume control much better on the APMs, but the Pandas nub is convenient as well and less likely to be accidentally touched. Pandas easier to skip forward, since about 25% of the time my double clicks of the APM crown are registered as single clicks.
- Longer battery life on the Pandas (30 vs 20 hours)
- Pandas are IPX4 weather resistance rated (splash resistant), APMs are not. Not a big deal for me, but could be a deal breaker for others
- You can turn the Pandas off!
- Pandas will be getting an app to adjust equalizer in the headphones, saved internally for all wireless sources. Not sure I'd mess with it much, though, since they sound good out of the box.
- Obviously the APMS have the great ANC and transparency modes which the Panda does not

All in all, it's closer than I thought it would be. As far as sound quality, I'm good with either. They're both outstanding with slightly different but both pleasant personalities, like 2 dear friends, one a little more outgoing, one less so but both great to be with.

So for me it comes down to comfort and convenience. I'll be using them while working at home, so good videoconferencing on the APMs is a bonus. The lack of ANC on the Pandas isn't a deal breaker, but the lack of transparency is a bigger deal than I thought now that I've gotten used to it. Not a big fan of pleather ear cups since I'm kind of a warm blooded (ie sweaty) person. But certainly wouldn't be wearing either while exercising. Just feel the Pandas on my head and ears too much compared to the APMs and I know myself that if I don't want to wear headphones for more than 30 minutes, they'll likely end up on a shelf. Even though they're about $200 cheaper (I'm including the headphone jack in the APM price) and sound fantastic, I'm leaning towards sending the Pandas back and hanging on to the APMs since the APMs are just a marginally better fit for me, my comfort and my use cases. But I can certainly see where the Panda would be a better fit for many if not most. Neither direction is bad and, in the absence of the APM, the Pandas would be a no brainer.

 

[SparkOnShore]

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/airpods-pro-2-could-come-in-two-sizes.2277811/

seems like new AirPods Pro 2 will be coming within 2021! Now, this product will be interesting and most probably an instant buy, at least by me!

 

[MICHAELSD]

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/airpods-pro-2-could-come-in-two-sizes.2277811/

seems like new AirPods Pro 2 will be coming within 2021! Now, this product will be interesting and most probably an instant buy, at least by me!

I wasn’t interested in AirPods Pro initially, but I find the more Apple products I buy the more I want to add complementary products. First-generation AirPods almost feel obsolete at this point.

I’m sure I’ll try AirPods Max at some point, but I’m not sure it will be enough to convince me to move away from truly wireless for casual listening.

I've been asked by several people now if we've measured the Apple AirPods Max. We have. Actually It feels like we've measured it a zillion times in the past week, using traditional test stimuli as well as several tracks of music as our generator source (using Audio Precision's Transfer Function measurement features).

I'm not going to post our frequency response measurement(s) yet, as we're still trying to understand the variations we're getting. From seating to seating we've found the measured frequency response can change to a greater degree than we see with other headphones -- and the nature of those differences between the different seating are sometimes unlike what we see with other (normal?) headphones.

I've searched the web to see what others were getting (in terms of frequency responses), and it seems consistent frequency response measurements with the AirPods Max can vary with the same system/staff, let alone from system to system and measurer to measurer.

---

​

​

Fig.1 (above): Frequency response measurement of the Apple AirPods Max (using Brüel & Kjær 4128) posted on Twitter by Herbert Zheng of MoonDrop.

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​

​

Fig.2 (above): Frequency response measurements of the AirPods Max (two sets superimposed) posted on Twitter by crinacle. These were made using a GRAS 43AG-7 mounted in a custom fixture (photo).

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​

​

​

​

Fig.3 (above three images): Various GRAS 43AG frequency response measurements of the Apple AirPods Max posted by Headphones.com.

---

While I won't be posting frequency response(s) yet, I do feel comfortable with the THD measurements we've seen here, which are impressive. However, I saw one reviewer post that the AirPod Max had THD ≤ 4% by his measurements, and another reviewer posting distortion measurements that also looked higher than Apple's claims about THD which read:




Here is what we measured at 90 dBSPL, 100 dBSPL and 110 dBSPL:


Fig.4 (above): Head-Fi HQ measurement of Apple AirPods Max THD at 90 dBSPL (solid lines), 100 dBSPL (dashed lines), and 110 dBSPL (dotted lines).

Like Apple, we used a Brüel & Kjær 5128 measurement manikin to measure the AirPods Max. Our measurements are also done with the manikins inside an acoustic/vibration isolation enclosure. Even at 110 dBSPL, THD reached a maximum of 0.577% at 342.237 Hz. Even though that was at -3.521 dBFS (with the AirPods Max set to maximum volume), I feel confident we'd still be under 1% maximum if we raised the level to the -3.000 dBFS specified in that above quote from Apple's website. Keep in mind that's just at the peak at 342.237 Hz -- aside from that peak, the harmonic distortion averages well under 0.1% from 20 Hz to 10 kHz at the 110 dBSPL level. That's impressive.

We'll post the AirPods Max frequency response(s) after more testing.

---

The THD measurements in this post were made using:

• Brüel & Kjær High-frequency Head and Torso Simulator (HATS) Type 5128
• Audio Precision APx555 Audio Analyzer
• Audio Precision APx1701 Transducer Test Interface
• Herzan custom-designed acoustic & vibration isolation enclosure

---

The variations in measurements are due to the advanced calibration algorithms on AirPods Max that adjust the frequency response to provide a consistent sound based on seal, ear shape, etc.

• Adaptive EQ: AirPods Max use Adaptive EQ to adjust the sound to the fit and seal of the ear cushions by measuring the sound signal delivered to a user and adjusting the low and mid-frequencies in real time — bringing rich audio that captures every detail.

 

[SparkOnShore]

I wasn’t interested in AirPods Pro initially, but I find the more Apple products I buy the more I want to add complementary products. First-generation AirPods almost feel obsolete at this point.

I’m sure I’ll try AirPods Max at some point, but I’m not sure it will be enough to convince me to move away from truly wireless for casual listening.

I am just afraid of the comfort / sweat issues. One way or another most over ears cause a discomfort feeling to me after 1 or 2 hours. More over this 400 gr one. A link above is mentioning that sweat trapped inside the ear cup causes ear detection to not being able to operate properly. I guess I will like the sound of APM, but I know that to me comfort and lack of headphone burden is more important than anything.

 

[angelom]

I have a B&O H9 (first generation, if I remember correctly). Very comfortable headphone. And my ears are apparently a bit smaller. Soundwise imo problematic, a lot of pressure from the noice cancelling and the tuning was so so for me. But, it did for what I bought it for, and it’s an older generation headphone, more recent ones will be better.

Maybe the clamping force of the Apple Max is to some extend responsible for making the Apple Max more uncomfortable than a B&O. Doing something about the clamping force may be beneficial. Not sure if bending the frame is possible.

Otherwise removing the pads, and clamp the Apple Max over a few books might do the trick.

Thank you for your post. I'm not sure the clamping is the problem, I have the hd600 that having clamping but the comfort is never a problem. Right now the APM is in my ears and from the first minute I can't forgetting the headphone is in my ears and I don't like this, I can't forgetting this and is very frustrating. Is now 1h 20m and my ears saying 'PLEASE take this off!'

About the h9 1g, is a long time but I remember I'm not crazy about the sound (not bad but, really, but I'm not so hapopy) and having problems too with not sufficient volume for many albums. And, like h7, h9i and h9 3g, the round ear cups don't fitting my ears well.

Decided to try the Drop THX Panda out to compare to my APMs. Only have a few days left to return the APMs if I decide the Pandas are better. I must say they do sound outstanding, but comparing to the APMs is interesting. Here are a bunch of things that are fresh on my mind, many of which I hadn't heard mentioned elsewhere, so perhaps they can help others:

- I'm comparing to the APMs with the Headphone Accommodations on, with audiogram setup from Mimi test. For me, this makes the APMs more present and is how I'd use it day to day.
- Both the APM and Panda are quite enjoyable to listen to. The APMs are a little more forward and have a stronger sub-bass, but not overwhelming. (As a note, I could actually feel 10hz in the Pandas from a sine sweep, but couldn't on the APMs. But at 15 Hz, the APMs were quite strong). I'd say in general the Pandas are more relaxing to listen to and I'd be perfectly happy with them, but they seldom give me that "wow" moment or feel like I'm spelunking a song in a new way. The APMs do this occasionally especially with the bass. That said, I feel more like I'm listening "at" the music with the APMs, where I'm listening "with" the music on the Pandas. Given that I'm usually doing tasks when I'm using headphones, the Pandas will fade more into the background better than the APMs. If I want a critical eyes-closed listening session, my HD600s still bring a content smile to my face.
- Soundstage is similar, maybe a little less directional with the Pandas. Neither compare to the HD600's openness
- On comfort, it's a mixed bag. I have a huge head and they both have a bit more clamping force than I prefer. APMs don't extend -quite- far enough, but they are OK. They both heat up being closed back and I'd say they're pretty close in that regard, but the pleather makes me feel hotter and stickier
- Actually like the headband of the APMs a little better than the Pandas. I seldom forgot the Pandas are on, but sometimes do with the APMs.
- With ANC off, the APMs still block out much more ambient noise than the Pandas. Obviously with ANC on, the APMs are dead quiet (except for my wife's darned parakeet, which I was hoping it would squelch, but it does not much)
- The Pandas have a lot more volume, but I don't find the APMs volume lacking at all. Both sound great cranked up.
- I find neither particularly sibilant but are both fairly bright. Very nice
- I can use the USBC interface of the Pandas to listen to music on my PC (but no mic), presumably while charging...nice for those days when I forgot to charge. Also, the headphone wired plug puts the Pandas into passive mode using no power, where the APM is always "on". Lots of options. That said, I found the USBC is more prone to fall out while using, and my braided cords are a bad idea (transmits every slight rub of the cord to the headphone body). Lightning is a more solid connection, but insane the lightning to headphone jack wasn't included with the APMs.
- Panda comes with all the cords and an awesome case (with a nice magnetic lidded compartment for cords). The APMs, well, you know the story there.
- Pandas are solid, but build quality on the APMs is stellar. Both are pretty heavy especially compared to the HD600s.
- Pandas are more ambidextrous as far as bluetooth codecs and non-ios sources, supporting about everything.
- Using with Videoconferencing, the APMs mic quality is much better than the Pandas. Also, transparency mode on the APMs feel far more natural for talking
- Bluetooth signaling more stable with the APMs...the Pandas stumble a little bit occasionally, but not abnormally
- Like the volume control much better on the APMs, but the Pandas nub is convenient as well and less likely to be accidentally touched. Pandas easier to skip forward, since about 25% of the time my double clicks of the APM crown are registered as single clicks.
- Longer battery life on the Pandas (30 vs 20 hours)
- Pandas are IPX4 weather resistance rated (splash resistant), APMs are not. Not a big deal for me, but could be a deal breaker for others
- You can turn the Pandas off!
- Pandas will be getting an app to adjust equalizer in the headphones, saved internally for all wireless sources. Not sure I'd mess with it much, though, since they sound good out of the box.
- Obviously the APMS have the great ANC and transparency modes which the Panda does not

All in all, it's closer than I thought it would be. As far as sound quality, I'm good with either. They're both outstanding with slightly different but both pleasant personalities, like 2 dear friends, one a little more outgoing, one less so but both great to be with.

So for me it comes down to comfort and convenience. I'll be using them while working at home, so good videoconferencing on the APMs is a bonus. The lack of ANC on the Pandas isn't a deal breaker, but the lack of transparency is a bigger deal than I thought now that I've gotten used to it. Not a big fan of pleather ear cups since I'm kind of a warm blooded (ie sweaty) person. But certainly wouldn't be wearing either while exercising. Just feel the Pandas on my head and ears too much compared to the APMs and I know myself that if I don't want to wear headphones for more than 30 minutes, they'll likely end up on a shelf. Even though they're about $200 cheaper (I'm including the headphone jack in the APM price) and sound fantastic, I'm leaning towards sending the Pandas back and hanging on to the APMs since the APMs are just a marginally better fit for me, my comfort and my use cases. But I can certainly see where the Panda would be a better fit for many if not most. Neither direction is bad and, in the absence of the APM, the Pandas would be a no brainer.

I never hearing the Panda but I can seeing you're doing a very honest, with not bias, review. This is really very nice.

I think for other people is a very good idea that you comparing the factory sound of the APM and factory sound of the Panda. I think this is more useful because with your APM you're using your personal audiogram setting that is working like using EQ.

Like you, I having the problems of the clicking of the crown for pause/play/next/previous track, but for me the problem tis happening more when I'm doing next/previous track.

 

[Ilomaenkimi]

Stated that comparing them to my main listening phones was not fair but hard not to compare to what you are used to. But even comparing them as I stated to the Meze 99 classic which I feel is similar but the Meze are cleaner and they are a $300 headphone. While something like the hd600’s which is also a $300 headphone are better in all aspects except these are all wired. Was hoping Apple was going to come up with a better Bluetooth format that allowed higher quality music to play but I guess it’s all meant to play with Apple Music. Even if you are ok with the sound for the price, the way you turn off the APM should be unacceptable on it’s own but apples first ideation are usually quickly replaced with a more usable version. If you don’t put these into that stupid non protective case your phone keeps trying to connect with the headphones even if they are on a stand. Multiple times I had to turn Bluetooth off to answer a call at home because my APM were on a stand instead of the case.

Naturally. It's Apple product.
AAC 256 sounds pretty good with Apple ecosystem.
Same opinion about the case/powering off. Hope they do some nice firmware update for that. Though i like the way APP is powering off...
Power button is not something i like, maybe some other solution with APM?

 

[JonFo]

The Pandas have a lot more volume, but I don't find the APMs volume lacking at all. Both sound great cranked up.

The APM can do >110dB SPL with <0.7% THD (see graphs posted recently), it has a ton of volume and a flat power-curve. Your description of sensing the Panda is 'louder' is likely due to the Panda having a bunch of distortion when pushed and a power-curve that tilts in a manner you perceive os 'louder', likely due to increased mid-bass from the low-end distortion products.

This mistaking distortion for loudness is a common thing, as most systems people hear have some distortion and some have a lot at high levels.

I love demonstrating my HT system to people, as they will try and make a comment during the demo, thinking they will be heard, but the system level is high enough we can't hear each other. Low distortion performance across the frequency spectrum at decent volume is hard to achieve, therefore rare and people don't quite get it, as to most, 'loud' is associated with distortion.

 

[tinyman392]

No there isn't, he's wrong. That was the subject of some of Apple's patents but it didn't make it into the final product (that said the APM's design remains 100% compatible with these patents so it may come back in later iterations). It's just a fairly classic optical sensor :

What it uses is a microphone facing your ear, just like a lot of other ANC headphones, but possibly one with good fidelity across a broader frequency range :

Adaptive EQ works on top of the ANC to deliver a more or less constant FR curve, up to a certain frequency. My guess is that this cutoff point is higher than most competing ANC headphones but I'd be surprised if it went higher than 2000hz. Because of how the APP and apparently the APM behave when trying to measure them it's likely that Adaptive EQ is quite a bit more sophisticated and complex than the typical feedback mechanism on ANC headphones but I don't think anyone here knows what it does exactly .
The APM don't have any way to correct for your anatomy in the higher frequencies I believe. The least complicated mechanism I've read about to attempt at making some form of correction for higher frequency requires two microphones in the cup (AKG True Tone). The others are based on recognition of visual cues (imaging of the ear) and so far require a process external to the HPs (sending a picture of your ear to Sony's servers for example).

I gave a plausible way for it to deal with the higher frequencies. The microphone is there purely as a measurement tool that is read 200 times a second or something. That microphone can still pick up high frequencies (up to whatever that microphone is designed to pick up). I’d say that the APM could be using something like a spectral density plot from said microphones. So the AirPods Max knows that it’s playing since it has the raw waveform being sent out, it also knows what the target should look like so it has some idea of what it should be hearing back. So it takes what it should expect back, subtracts what it actually heard back, invert and EQ. Rinse and repeat.

I'm using my AP 95% for podcasts and telephone calls, and maybe 5% with youtube; the convenience of quickly putting in my ears or back in the case and portability is like nothing in the market. I think I'm lucky with the fit because I getting 'sufficient' mid-bass (obviously zero sub-bass) so that with the little music I'm listening the experience isn't completely disaster. I think too the brain is great instrument for adjusting quickly with the more low quality sound.



I'm lucky that the fit is perfect always with the APP, no problems with the Apple factory tips losing a good seal. My idea is that I using the ANC for travels (plane & train), but when I comparing directly in a flight the APP, bose 700 and sony xm3, I deciding I'm keeping the xm3 only for the anc in travels (and hoovering at home).



I'm very happy with over ears (my p7 wireless I have now for 4 years), and the heat for me is a big problem with the majority of bt/anc headphones if isn't having leather earpads. I selling the shure aonic 50 that is having very, very good sound quality for the heat and the sweat problems. For me if isn't leather earpads then is a (big) problem. I having big expectations with the AirPods Max (specially when for many months the name is AirPods Studio and the good sound of the APP before), but the earpads aren't good for me unfortunately, and the discomfort outside my ears (no problem with the top of my head, by the way). I don't mentioning this before but I'm sometimes getting a little negative reaction in my skin after using for more than 1-1,5 hours (I think this is because of little sweat interacting with the cloth material in the earpads that irritating my skin a little). I never experiencing before this reaction with leather or even with the artificial leather of the majority of bt/anc headphones.

I don’t think it’s sweat reacting with the cloth. The cloth has a slightly rough surface to it which could be causing the issues.

I'm going purely off memory here, so could be a bit off, but I think what this comes down to is the APP being more mid-forward and with a slightly more linear FR than the APM, so if you are more mid-centric in your preference you will consider it to have more detail, as the sounds and detail you prefer will be more available. However, with it being an IEM it has a harder time producing a proper soundstage and atmosphere compared to a pair of headphones. Just like a pair of headphones can’t really re-create the scale of a good pair of speakers (don't bite my head off, each are good in their own right, at their own things).

The APM on the other hand is more atmospheric and has more scale, with the deep (and slightly bumped) sub-bass, as well as a bit more sparkle in the treble. You may get a sense of more detail in some respects because the mids are a little recessed and so do not dominate the mix as much.

But I could be wrong, I haven't directly compared them and it has been a week or so since I last listened to music through the APP.

In terms of what the APM are, I'll repeat what I've said before:
They are enjoyable to listen to, they have a slightly bumped sub-bass and fairly sparkly treble but recessed mids, so V shaped. The timbre is fairly natural and they are pretty good for their category (Bluetooth ANC headphones). They do not punch above their weight, price, or class. They are not detail kings, they can't compete with a decent set of wired headphones, they are not exceptional as a headphone. But they are a great wireless ANC headphone for Apple users. I might try and compare them to my Meze 99 Classic (via my mDAC mini) at some point, as that would likely be an "apples to apples" comparison which could provide some value.

If others want to make them out to be more, that's on them.

You basically hit the nail on the head regarding midrange. The APM kind of has a bit of a dip in the upper midrange. So the detail isn’t quite as in your face as it is with the APP. The treble is a different story though. Since the APM kind of smears some of the treble it actually ends up losing detail rather than retrieving it. I’d probably say that in terms of treble, detail retrieval is about equal.