[angelom]

Yes you can EQ adjust to get to your liking, but the audiogram gives you an objective baseline based both on your hearing + headphone performance at those bands. Sometimes adjusting the EQ is like poking around in the dark based on the song you're listening to, and then you listen to a different style and it sounds horrid. Will do a subject A+B+C with my APM, HD265 and HD600 for my own person preferences.

I'd really like to return the APMs since they were a bit pricey, but if they get me to listen to and enjoy music more due to features and convenience then I have no issue spending it. My wife likes the fact she can't really hear the music (minimal leak) unlike the HD600 open backs, but doesn't like the fact she can be talking for a few minutes and I wouldn't have heard a word of it. May be worth the money right there

Is interesting what you're saying, so I want seeing what you hearing after you comparing all 3 headphones.

...but doesn't like the fact she can be talking for a few minutes and I wouldn't have heard a word of it. May be worth the money right there

Maybe she's reading this thread and you don't know this!

 

[plakat]

To avoid too many posts... I think someone already mentioned this:
https://www.sfbags.com/pages/airpod-max-survey

My wife likes the fact she can't really hear the music (minimal leak) unlike the HD600 open backs, but doesn't like the fact she can be talking for a few minutes and I wouldn't have heard a word of it. May be worth the money right there

You might want to try transparency mode... doesn't distract from the music too much since it seems to be selective about which signals are let through.

 

[ricksastro]

You might want to try transparency mode... doesn't distract from the music too much since it seems to be selective about which signals are let through.

Yes, transparency mode is fantastic for when I do actually want to listen

Seriously, transparency is great for Team meetings and such especially so I can hear my own voice. and the microphone works very well. MS Teams has a test mode that records you voice so you can play it back to yourself and the APM sounds better than other options I've tried (cheapo cardioid mic, jabra conference speaker, Sony XM4)

 

[tkddans]

Yes, transparency mode is fantastic for when I do actually want to listen

Seriously, transparency is great for Team meetings and such especially so I can hear my own voice. and the microphone works very well. MS Teams has a test mode that records you voice so you can play it back to yourself and the APM sounds better than other options I've tried (cheapo cardioid mic, jabra conference speaker, Sony XM4)

I prefer listening to transparency over ANC. ANC makes me really uncomfortable after awhile. Maybe I have to get used to it.

 

[Double C]

Yes, obviously decompression happens in Apples H1 chip, which also handles the Bluetooth connection to my understanding. Potentially they could analyze the audio signal and do some postprocessing (Beyerdynamic does something like that on their MYI/MIMI-enabled wireless headphones). Examples of such postprocessing would be the plugins available in DAW software (Digital Audio Workbench) that can be used to remove noise, make signals sound extra crispy etc. So nothing new in the sense of "nobody else did that before". I still think if any magical processing would be done, they would have let us know. Which is not to say that the APM as a hardware Plattform does not have the capability to add such processing later on... a good example being the spatial audi feature added to the APP: the necessary hardware was obviously there, but software support for this feature was added later. I think something this is going to happen with the APM just as well... but I don't think there's currently any extraordinary postprocessing being done.

I was thinking about something that Sony does Called HSEE DX. It sounds like they upscale on the hardware all the XM NC phones use it.

 

[angelom]

Update of APM impressions after 8 days:

Is good that I keeping my pair still for doing more testing and experimenting because the APM in several aspects is a very, very good or excellent headphone.

Discovering more sound options is very good, specially for iOS devices with the more correct tuning of "voice" + "slight" making a big difference in correction of the factory sound, but like I saying before, a good eq app is good for many headphones including the APM. I always preferring not eq'ing my headphones and with the APM I'm making big exception for the my tests and for testing the computational aspects of this headphone.

But problems from the first day are continuing today. After not more than one hour, with maximum effort for continuing listening for 1,5 hours, the discomfort outside of my ears in the top part is difficult for me accepting until I must saying "stop, take it off!, I needing break NOW!". My ears are getting hot too and sometimes showing little sweat.

The user experience isn't improving when I trying adjusting the APM position of earcups or taking off for quick break or doing something different, I still often accidentally clicking the play/pause button and/or changing volume or changing anc/ambinet/off mode. This is frustrating and is one aspect that nobody in this thread, except other reviews outside head-fi, mentioning.

The volume adjustment with volume crown is fantastic, with very fine changes possible (so important for me!), except for the thing I mentioning above that sometimes changing volume A LOT accidentally.

After 8 days, the b&o h95 is still very, very clearly my preference, not only in the sound quality aspect (always clear for me), but in the VERY important aspect of the user experience (and portability aspect too), comfort, not making my ears hot and the playback features (volume changes, play/pause next/previous track).

 

[tkddans]

Update of APM impressions after 8 days:

Is good that I keeping my pair still for doing more testing and experimenting because the APM in several aspects is a very, very good or excellent headphone.

Discovering more sound options is very good, specially for iOS devices with the more correct tuning of "voice" + "slight" making a big difference in correction of the factory sound, but like I saying before, a good eq app is good for many headphones including the APM. I always preferring not eq'ing my headphones and with the APM I'm making big exception for the my tests and for testing the computational aspects of this headphone.

But problems from the first day are continuing today. After not more than one hour, with maximum effort for continuing listening for 1,5 hours, the discomfort outside of my ears in the top part is difficult for me accepting until I must saying "stop, take it off!, I needing break NOW!". My ears are getting hot too and sometimes showing little sweat.

The user experience isn't improving when I trying adjusting the APM position of earcups or taking off for quick break or doing something different, I still often accidentally clicking the play/pause button and/or changing volume or changing anc/ambinet/off mode. This is frustrating and is one aspect that nobody in this thread, except other reviews outside head-fi, mentioning.

The volume adjustment with volume crown is fantastic, with very fine changes possible (so important for me!), except for the thing I mentioning above that sometimes changing volume A LOT accidentally.

After 8 days, the b&o h95 is still very, very clearly my preference, not only in the sound quality aspect (always clear for me), but in the VERY important aspect of the user experience (and portability aspect too), comfort, not making my ears hot and the playback features (volume changes, play/pause next/previous track).

Agreed on comfort in some respects. It keeps making you wonder, am I ok with this? Even when I think I am, sometimes I go back to them and feel I'm not. That ambiguity is not present on other lighter pairs of headphones. The ANC especially kills the comfort. I feel terrible with that mode on. I'm pretty pleased with comfort with transparency on at least.

 

[angelom]

Agreed on comfort in some respects. It keeps making you wonder, am I ok with this? Even when I think I am, sometimes I go back to them and feel I'm not. That ambiguity is not present on other lighter pairs of headphones. The ANC especially kills the comfort. I feel terrible with that mode on. I'm pretty pleased with comfort with transparency on at least.

I must saying that anc with the majority of anc headphones isn't a problem for me (except only a little with qc35). But I must saying too that the only times I testing anc with the APM is only quickly for testing the quality (comparing with my sony xm3 and h95). I usually having APM in off mode (and maybe 25% with ambient mode that I using much more than anc).

 

[Trager]

So I‘ve mostly been using my APM for the past few days, partly because new toy, but also because I’ve had a bunch of stuff going on around my house where ANC helped me to focus on work. Today I have the house to myself and it’s nice and quiet in my home office, so I switched back to my Audeze LCD-i3 (wired through Cipher to my iPhone), and the Audezes are definitely better across the board, but the gap isn’t that big. I love these things (and have them mildly EQed through the Cipher) — music hits hard but is so open and airy and detailed.

Really, the fact that I don’t mind listening to music through my APM after being spoiled by the LCD-i3 for so long is enough for me to give these cans a recommendation. Even after paying the Apple Tax. Yes, they’d be a better value at $450, and they would be killer at more like $350, but that 1) wouldn’t be Apple, and 2) doesn’t account for all the tech advantages these have over most wireless cans. The spatial audio and excellent ANC and excellent transparency mode are really well done (and I agree with @angelom that the volume adjust is great, especially for mobile devices that tend to prefer volume changes in big chunks, I love the precision you can get with the crown). They really aren’t high fidelity headphones, but they are fun to listen to, even for someone with a fairly discerning ear and high standards. I think I’ll probably end up comparing them to my UE Pros — not everyone wants or needs CIEMs, and the UE Pros aren’t best in class, nor the best headphones I have, but I like having those around for traveling or for working in seriously noisy environments and I don’t feel like I’m giving that much up when I switch to them.

 

[tkddans]

Drop Panda: First Impressions
Panda's came in. Still waiting on K371. Due to reasons of traveling and so on, I will make a comparison for now that just consists of the K361, Panda, and APM.

The instruction booklet for Panda says: "For the very first time, a true audiophile listening experience is no longer reserved for wired headphones. Delivering the lowest distortion ever on a wireless headphone, the Drop + THX Panda puts you closer to your music than you ever thought possible."

Initial listening impression is much closer to the "feel" of the APM than the K361. Where the K361 is balanced according to the Harman curve but lacking some fidelity on first listen, the Panda ventures away from the curve while offering a tuning and fidelity that are both very pleasing indeed.

Compared to the APM on a quick impression comparison, the Panda sound like they are giving back just enough of the 2k-4k range to the listener, where the APM are somewhat recessed there.

The Panda seem to therefor also recover more detail in some areas of the response without having to pump the volume as high as you would need on the APM.

The APM however, when volume is raised to be able to hear those recessed areas, don't bother you when your ears despite the loudness increase - since the most elevated range above baseline is sub-bass (and since it's not sibilant, it's so clear and controlled; the elevated bass isn't a bother but perhaps more fun at this higher volume).

The Drop Panda bring a brighter, more balanced approach to listening that poses a strong challenge at first listen to the clarity of the APM. But then when I go back to the APM, especially at higher volume, they shine in their special way. The luscious, authentic vocals and acoustics return with satisfying clean bass tones dripping off everything.

This will indeed be a battle. More detailed comparisons, track for track, to come!

Oh, the K361 already lost. But more to come!

 

[tkddans]

I don't meant to post back to back uneccessarily, but Crinacle just posted a fuller review of the AirPod Max. He's the guy who is responsible for measuring all the response curves many of us cite (myself included).

Apple AirPods Max Review: The Audiophile's Perspective

EDIT: Is he talking about my 800 comparison? Oy vay. How many times do I have to tell people... The 800 S is better technically. But does it satisfy the tuning the APM offers?

I'm growing tired of the prohibitive sentiment against a person simply saying how the APM compares in situations against a hifi headphone the person has in their collection. Our shared experiences are NOT grand universal statements! Lower fidelity doesn't mean you can't say how you personally enjoy it more. Anyway...detailed comparisons and observations incoming of Panda and K361.

 

[Maukey]

Drop Panda: First Impressions
Panda's came in. Still waiting on K371. Due to reasons of traveling and so on, I will make a comparison for now that just consists of the K361, Panda, and APM.

The instruction booklet for Panda says: "For the very first time, a true audiophile listening experience is no longer reserved for wired headphones. Delivering the lowest distortion ever on a wireless headphone, the Drop + THX Panda puts you closer to your music than you ever thought possible."

Initial listening impression is much closer to the "feel" of the APM than the K361. Where the K361 is balanced according to the Harman curve but lacking some fidelity on first listen, the Panda ventures away from the curve while offering a tuning and fidelity that are both very pleasing indeed.

Compared to the APM on a quick impression comparison, the Panda sound like they are giving back just enough of the 2k-4k range to the listener, where the APM are somewhat recessed there.

The Panda seem to therefor also recover more detail in some areas of the response without having to pump the volume as high as you would need on the APM.

The APM however, when volume is raised to be able to hear those recessed areas, don't bother you when your ears despite the loudness increase - since the most elevated range above baseline is sub-bass (and since it's not sibilant, it's so clear and controlled; the elevated bass isn't a bother but perhaps more fun at this higher volume).

The Drop Panda bring a brighter, more balanced approach to listening that poses a strong challenge at first listen to the clarity of the APM. But then when I go back to the APM, especially at higher volume, they shine in their special way. The luscious, authentic vocals and acoustics return with satisfying clean bass tones dripping off everything.

This will indeed be a battle. More detailed comparisons, track for track, to come!

Oh, the K361 already lost. But more to come!

Thanks for the first impressions. Looking forward to hearing more. It's funny you say that about how the Max open up at higher volumes. Beats get a lot of criticism, but one thing I always praised them for was how well they sounded at higher volumes without fatigue. Beats were designed with hip hop listeners in mind. Most who listen to Hip Hop and Pop do so at higher volumes for the added excitement. I think Apple followed Beats lead on the loudness factor while making a much more refined headphone.

 

[Maukey]

I don't meant to post back to back uneccessarily, but Crinacle just posted a fuller review of the AirPod Max. He's the guy who is responsible for measuring all the response curves many of us cite (myself included).

Apple AirPods Max Review: The Audiophile's Perspective

EDIT: Is he talking about my 800 comparison? Oy vay. How many times do I have to tell people... The 800 S is better technically. But does it satisfy the tuning the APM offers?

I'm growing tired of the prohibitive sentiment against a person simply saying how the APM compares in situations against a hifi headphone the person has in their collection. Our shared experiences are NOT grand universal statements! Lower fidelity doesn't mean you can't say how you personally enjoy it more. Anyway...detailed comparisons and observations incoming of Panda and K361.

My advice would be to ignore it. I told you a few pages back that you owe no one an apology. You're free to compare gear you own to any other gear you've tried or own. Nobody has the right to tell you otherwise. It's not like you're saying the Max are the best ever. I personally have enjoyed your comparisons. The unfortunate part of this hobby is that some of the self proclaimed "audiophiles" can be snobbish. They don't want anyone to tell them that their $1000+ investment is bested in any form by a "lesser" opponent. They prefer charts and graphs over ears. I'm 40 years old and have been in music all my life. I've tried all kinds of gear from the $3000+ range to the $29.99. I can tell you that I ENJOY the Max more sonically than some $1000+ headphones I've owned or tried. I'm not apologizing for it.

 

[kazsud]

I had also strange glitches were for example noise cancellation was working on the right side but transparency mode was on for the left earcup and all kinds of other crap.

I had to do a few factory resets also to get it working as normal.

Let’s hope these problems are due to software issues and not hardware. Because probably they won’t have any units left in stock as a replacement unit.

How do you do a factory reset?

 

[clerkpalmer]

I don't meant to post back to back uneccessarily, but Crinacle just posted a fuller review of the AirPod Max. He's the guy who is responsible for measuring all the response curves many of us cite (myself included).

Apple AirPods Max Review: The Audiophile's Perspective

EDIT: Is he talking about my 800 comparison? Oy vay. How many times do I have to tell people... The 800 S is better technically. But does it satisfy the tuning the APM offers?

I'm growing tired of the prohibitive sentiment against a person simply saying how the APM compares in situations against a hifi headphone the person has in their collection. Our shared experiences are NOT grand universal statements! Lower fidelity doesn't mean you can't say how you personally enjoy it more. Anyway...detailed comparisons and observations incoming of Panda and K361.

The problem with the comparison isn't your opinion, it's that it's just not a useful comparison. Both are headphones but that's really where the comparisons end. They serve completely different purposes and they are used in completely different settings. It couldn't be more apples to oranges. I think it's fine if you enjoy the APM more in certain situations the same way someone may enjoy driving their SUV over their sports car in certain situations. But I wouldn't compare an Escalade to a 911 even though they are both vehicles.

Anyway appreciate your impressions on the Panda since I have them and this solidifies that for me the APM isn't worth the the extra 300 particularly on Android. This thread has made me appreciate the Panda more. They are a tremendous bargain. I was going to sell them and get an APM but I think I'm going to hold off particularly with the DSP app on the way. It could really make the Panda that much better.