[Adnen Ayed]

They’re under Apple, but Beats are now more known for their Powerbeats line. Their headphones are kinda tired, at this point.

My daughter had an old Beats. I was thinking of getting her new ones for Christmas.
Tried the Sony 1000XM4 and quite enjoyed them. Going for them, I guess.

 

[Whitigir]

My daughter had an old Beats. I was thinking of getting her new ones for Christmas.
Tried the Sony 1000XM4 and quite enjoyed them. Going for them, I guess.

I would give her your “R10”, and buy the new Hifiman R10

 

[Adnen Ayed]

I would give her your “R10”, and buy the new Hifiman R10

Ha ha. She wants wireless...

 

[tom2517]

I think Apple bought them for some billions $ a few years back

Apple bought beats for streaming, not for headphone tech.

 

[bedlamite]

My daughter had an old Beats. I was thinking of getting her new ones for Christmas.
Tried the Sony 1000XM4 and quite enjoyed them. Going for them, I guess.

Nowadays TWS are the what the cool kids rock, but for full sized headphones XM4s are far more ubiquitous than Beats. The 4s are def the popular choice

 

[Adnen Ayed]

Apple bought beats for streaming, not for headphone tech.

Oh!

Nowadays TWS are the what the cool kids rock, but for full sized headphones XM4s are far more ubiquitous than Beats. The 4s are def the popular choice

Bigger earpads also.
If she doesn't like them, I'll use them...

 

[bobeau]

Apple bought beats for streaming, not for headphone tech.

Which is funny if you think about it as Beats had just bought that platform from MOG for what, $50M or so? I think the brand equity was probably just as important at the time, as MOG was dying and Beats was a powerhouse in the consumer headphone space... they also wanted Jimmie Iovine/Dr. Dre/etc on board.

 

[Adnen Ayed]

Which is funny if you think about it as Beats had just bought that platform from MOG for what, $50M or so? I think the brand equity was probably just as important at the time, as MOG was dying and Beats was a powerhouse in the consumer headphone space.

And Apple saw the opportunity

 

[enc0re]

Does Beats still sell separately or they are merged under Apple branded products?

They are sold separately under the Beats brand. Apple bought Beats for its streaming music service which became Apple Music. Based on the reporting I’ve read, when Apple got into headphones (AirPods), they didn’t even involve any of the Beats people. Behind the scenes rumors and reporting suggest that Apple audio people thought little of Beats headphones and figured they could do better on their own.

 

[plakat]

OK, curiosity got the better part of me, so I went to pick them up today.

They do look better in person than on the photos, at least my Space Gray version. Enough has already been said about that case, I guess I'll pick up a nice leather case at some point. That would fit the APM well I think.

Comfort is OK, a bit too much clamping force for my taste. Pads are deep and spacious for my ears, the headband is OK an distributes the weight well. They do feel heavy in hand, and I feel their weight while walking around. I don't loose them during normal head movements, so overall that's fine. They have a nice low profile while sitting on the head, and the mechanism that binds the cups to the headband is really interesting. It has that kind of special Apple feel to it, with just the right amount of spring that distributes clamping force quite evenly around the ear, not just at the top like the mount point of the headband might suggest. Overall this makes the cups/headband protrude much less than with most other constructs. The pads feel rather cool

Regarding sound... lets say, they did not make me immediately sell my D9200. It is really fine, with string but not overbearing bass that is a tad loose, but not unattractively so. Plus this effect seems to be rather down low, so it actually fits my preferences. Upper mids sound a touch elevated/pronounced to me, just like with the HomePod. It's not aggressive, just adding a touch of liveliness. Voices come through very clear, and the bass does not taint the rest of the spectrum. Yet it does rumble, and very nicely at that: bass does have structure/definition, depth and stays away from just adding an effect.
It does not sound closed in, though the space seems not really natural somehow -- but on the other hand I simply don't listen to acoustical music on headphones, so there's no real space to reproduce anyway. Positioning is stable. Lets just say, they are not of the flat kind that always reminds one of a speaker too near to ones ears. Overall they do sound good, not only for a wireless headphone, but for a midrange headphone. I'd take it over an HD650 any day, but that may be due to my dislike for the HD650 sound signature (plus its very uncomfortable to me).

I put that Hearing thing on my control pane (or whatever iOS calls this upper right corner pull down sheet), and going by the assumption that SPL levels are quite correct for the APM they seem quite loud to me at 68dB shown output. Volume increments/decrement seem very fine, volume setting is not impacted by skipping titles (i.e. pressing the crown). That one really feels good, and I'm more than happy that they chose this over a touch interface: I think the worst idea with touch interfaces on headphones (which I regard as not adding anything helpful at all) was that double tapping to start/stop. Thats just so loud inside the cup that its unusable to me. Clicking the crown is barely noticeable, so much less disturbing. Having to locate only one know (mostly, the other one I won't use much) makes things easier as well: no need to identify the one with the knob.

Overall its good enough to make me ignore the rest of the wireless sector for quite some time I guess. I played around with the thought of getting the H95, but I'm happy I waited for these instead: neither looks really good to me, but the APM looks a bit better (I just don't like the large round parts on the H95, which seem just too large in relation to the pads, and that the gimbals don't follow the cups in form), has no touch interface (not even partial) and is even a bit cheaper.

I'd say the Aonic 50 still sounds more natural (and it does offer a real passive mode, which I consider a good thing) and maybe a bit more comfortable, but it obviously Misses that seamless switching between devices (which the APM obviously does, and does very well). Spatial audio is a bit of a curiosity to me, really impressive with videos, but... I seldom watch videos on my iPad. I wanted a wireless headphone I could use with both iPhone and iPad (plus a Mac on occasion), without the usual problems of Bluetooth multipairing. The APM does that, so I think my wireless needs are served. For the time being at least.

 

[plakat]

They are sold separately under the Beats brand. Apple bought Beats for its streaming music service which became Apple Music. Based on the reporting I’ve read, when Apple got into headphones (AirPods), they didn’t even involve any of the Beats people. Behind the scenes rumors and reporting suggest that Apple audio people thought little of Beats headphones and figured they could do better on their own.

... a thought, which, given Beats headphone track record, is not that far fetched I'd say. Tough Beats got much better since Apple acquired them... I even owned a Studio 3 and the Powerbeats Pro for some time, which would have been unthinkable with older models.

 

[davidmolliere]

(...) Regarding sound... lets say, they did not make me immediately sell my D9200. It is really fine, with string but not overbearing bass that is a tad loose, but not unattractively so. Plus this effect seems to be rather down low, so it actually fits my preferences. Upper mids sound a touch elevated/pronounced to me, just like with the HomePod. It's not aggressive, just adding a touch of liveliness. Voices come through very clear, and the bass does not taint the rest of the spectrum. Yet it does rumble, and very nicely at that: bass does have structure/definition, depth and stays away from just adding an effect.
It does not sound closed in, though the space seems not really natural somehow -- but on the other hand I simply don't listen to acoustical music on headphones, so there's no real space to reproduce anyway. Positioning is stable. Lets just say, they are not of the flat kind that always reminds one of a speaker too near to ones ears. Overall they do sound good, not only for a wireless headphone, but for a midrange headphone. I'd take it over an HD650 any day, but that may be due to my dislike for the HD650 sound signature (plus its very uncomfortable to me).

(...)

Nice impressions... really get the lightning to 3.5 cable plug it to your DAP / DAC / AMP and let me know, because it's definitely the right way to know if the APM competes with other wired headphones. It's really much better sounding wired, provided you have a source powerful enough it's not easy to drive actually.

IMHO if you test with BT, let's stick to comparing with other BT offerings.
Otherwise let's compare from the same sources with the wire plugged

 

[boschtb]

Adaptive EQ is not in use if ANC is not in use. With Airpods Pro, assume that MAX behaves with same logic?
Airpods Pro sounds better with ANC off. Imo.

I am curious about this too. I actually use my AirPods Pro with ANC most of the time because I prefer it to ANC off. With the AirPods Max listening so far, I prefer ANC off. ANC on the APM is excellent, but unexessary for me when listening at home and I find that the APM has quite a bit of the ANC pressure sensation that I have experienced with older ANC headphones. I would like to know if the APM use adaptive EQ with ANC and transparency off.

FWIW, I am really enjoying the APM. I compared them at length yesterday to my Focal Clear driven by the JDS Labs El DAC and El Amp. While it’s not at all a fair comparison and the Focal/JDS combo was better in every way on every track, the APM impressed me. They are fun and easy to listen to. At volumes below 50%, I find that they benefit from the lowest Balanced setting in Accessibility.
I have been considering selling my main rig for quite some time because it simply does not get enough use, and the APM might put me over the edge. Not because they are as good (or even close to it), but because they are good enough for most use cases and better for everything that does not involve dedicated stationary listening with high quality sources.

 

[clerkpalmer]

OK, curiosity got the better part of me, so I went to pick them up today.

They do look better in person than on the photos, at least my Space Gray version. Enough has already been said about that case, I guess I'll pick up a nice leather case at some point. That would fit the APM well I think.

Comfort is OK, a bit too much clamping force for my taste. Pads are deep and spacious for my ears, the headband is OK an distributes the weight well. They do feel heavy in hand, and I feel their weight while walking around. I don't loose them during normal head movements, so overall that's fine. They have a nice low profile while sitting on the head, and the mechanism that binds the cups to the headband is really interesting. It has that kind of special Apple feel to it, with just the right amount of spring that distributes clamping force quite evenly around the ear, not just at the top like the mount point of the headband might suggest. Overall this makes the cups/headband protrude much less than with most other constructs. The pads feel rather cool

Regarding sound... lets say, they did not make me immediately sell my D9200. It is really fine, with string but not overbearing bass that is a tad loose, but not unattractively so. Plus this effect seems to be rather down low, so it actually fits my preferences. Upper mids sound a touch elevated/pronounced to me, just like with the HomePod. It's not aggressive, just adding a touch of liveliness. Voices come through very clear, and the bass does not taint the rest of the spectrum. Yet it does rumble, and very nicely at that: bass does have structure/definition, depth and stays away from just adding an effect.
It does not sound closed in, though the space seems not really natural somehow -- but on the other hand I simply don't listen to acoustical music on headphones, so there's no real space to reproduce anyway. Positioning is stable. Lets just say, they are not of the flat kind that always reminds one of a speaker too near to ones ears. Overall they do sound good, not only for a wireless headphone, but for a midrange headphone. I'd take it over an HD650 any day, but that may be due to my dislike for the HD650 sound signature (plus its very uncomfortable to me).

I put that Hearing thing on my control pane (or whatever iOS calls this upper right corner pull down sheet), and going by the assumption that SPL levels are quite correct for the APM they seem quite loud to me at 68dB shown output. Volume increments/decrement seem very fine, volume setting is not impacted by skipping titles (i.e. pressing the crown). That one really feels good, and I'm more than happy that they chose this over a touch interface: I think the worst idea with touch interfaces on headphones (which I regard as not adding anything helpful at all) was that double tapping to start/stop. Thats just so loud inside the cup that its unusable to me. Clicking the crown is barely noticeable, so much less disturbing. Having to locate only one know (mostly, the other one I won't use much) makes things easier as well: no need to identify the one with the knob.

Overall its good enough to make me ignore the rest of the wireless sector for quite some time I guess. I played around with the thought of getting the H95, but I'm happy I waited for these instead: neither looks really good to me, but the APM looks a bit better (I just don't like the large round parts on the H95, which seem just too large in relation to the pads, and that the gimbals don't follow the cups in form), has no touch interface (not even partial) and is even a bit cheaper.

I'd say the Aonic 50 still sounds more natural (and it does offer a real passive mode, which I consider a good thing) and maybe a bit more comfortable, but it obviously Misses that seamless switching between devices (which the APM obviously does, and does very well). Spatial audio is a bit of a curiosity to me, really impressive with videos, but... I seldom watch videos on my iPad. I wanted a wireless headphone I could use with both iPhone and iPad (plus a Mac on occasion), without the usual problems of Bluetooth multipairing. The APM does that, so I think my wireless needs are served. For the time being at least.

So for pure sq, you prefer the Aonic? Have you heard the panda by chance?

 

[HiFiHawaii808]

I wouldn't normally reply here, because that's not at all what I said, but I actually think this notion merits discussion.

At first, naturally, nobody will go out of business because of the APM. But I do believe they will disrupt the industry.

AirPods have already completely turned the IEM world on it's head. Everyone and their mother owns a pair, and anyone who thinks that AirPods haven't crippled the sales of a bunch of companies out there is fooling themselves. Apple carved out a monster segment of the $150-$250 IEM market, and there are a lot of companies feeling that right now.

I have no reason to believe that this product will be any different. How many iOS users who would've otherwise considered Sony or Bose will save up or spend more to get these? I think the number will be huge. Apple has a spectacularly successful history of getting consumers to spend a little more for a product that "just works" and these absolutely do.

So, back to the original question: who might be going out of business?

Bose is already a brand struggling for an identity. They've still yet to fully recover from the hit they took from Beats muscling them out of market share (remember the days when people like us talked about Beats all the time with dismay at their prevalence?) and now they're facing onslaught on all sides from companies like Sonos, etc. They also closed all of their retail stores, permanently, earlier this year. Are they really long for this world, without completely rethinking what they are?

I do believe that the original question was meant to be snark. But it shouldn't be.

That kind of dismissiveness is reminiscent the tone from Nokia, RIM, and Palm in 2007. How are they doing now?

My question is a serious one. You can't make a blanket statement like you did without being specific about who is at risk. It's lazy and leaves a false impression. Of course my question merits discussion. That's why I asked it. The companies at risk are those where the Airpods Max play most competitively. Bose and Sony, of course. Notice, you didn't say Focal, Audeze, Sennheiser or any of the well known high end brands. That's because based on the market reaction, this is a fantastic consumer product, but it poses no threat to audiophile class companies. Indeed, the APM is not an audiophile class headphone.. In fact, it's more likely to help it as the consumer gets accustomed to the $550 price point for headphones.