[autoteleology]

Some people don't hear much difference with cables...or DACS for that matter. If you can't hear the difference, I suggest you go with the cheaper option. I'm a musician of 30 years and I simply can not "un-hear" something. But it's just my opinion. Take it all with a grain of salt brother.

Yeah, well, I guess it's a shame that the DUMMER cable is apparently too expensive on its own to put in the box with the VIVO for people to make up their own minds instead of making you choose whether or not you're going to just take their word for it.

 

[Makiah S]

Some people don't hear much difference with cables...or DACS for that matter. If you can't hear the difference, I suggest you go with the cheaper option. I'm a musician of 30 years and I simply can not "un-hear" something. But it's just my opinion. Take it all with a grain of salt brother.

I'm with you there, once I hear something it's hard to ignore... tho I have liked the stock DUMMcable but is the VIVO still copper? Or SPC?

I'm debating if I want to just get a solid Silver Cable for my OG AFC and use it with Aeon2 ... I also noticed the "upgraded" cable Dan had at AXPONA this year made my own OG AFC a little airer but not enough to win me over

 

[Makiah S]

Nope. Snake oil. My friend bought an Aeon 2 Closed and we have access to both the stock cable and the VIVO cable. Absolutely zero audible difference. I don't want to have another cable discussion under this thread but sorry I have to say that.

Anyways what's your thoughts on Aeon 2C @flarex3 what have you compared it cable asside

 

[MattTCG]

I'm with you there, once I hear something it's hard to ignore... tho I have liked the stock DUMMcable but is the VIVO still copper? Or SPC?

I'm debating if I want to just get a solid Silver Cable for my OG AFC and use it with Aeon2 ... I also noticed the "upgraded" cable Dan had at AXPONA this year made my own OG AFC a little airer but not enough to win me over

The best cable I've heard with Aeon2 and ETHER 2 is the pure silver from Norne, S3. It's pricey though.

 

[Makiah S]

The best cable I've heard with Aeon2 and ETHER 2 is the pure silver from Norne, S3. It's pricey though.

Yea I don't doubt that, thankfully I have a silver guy whose product I really enjoy @teds headfood

The question is how happy will I be with stock Dumm on Aeon 2 vs just getting silver for my OG AFC... I guess I just need to work a little harder and get both lol

 

[Poganin]

I got myself OIDIO's silver-plated cable and FAW's Claire for my AFO and I hear no difference between the stock cable and the other two except for slightly better channel separation because the aftermarket cables are balanced. Either the AFO doesn't react that well to cable replacement or I don't know what I should be listening for.

 

[Thaddy]

I'm also very interested in this product, but there is a stumbling block for me - I'm really not into the idea of having to pay two hundred extra dollars to get the cable I want (balanced 2.5mm, a requirement to use the new E1DA PDv2). Frankly, I see high-end cables as a cash grab, and I see no reason for this cable to be so expensive, especially considering how plainly it's sleeved and the fact that it is only a meter long. I'll have to do some searching around for aftermarkets before I commit to anything.

I actually have a balanced 2.5mm cable from Dyson Audio that’s sitting unused in my Aeon’s case. I’d be happy to let it go for a very fair price if you’re interested. It came with the headphones when I purchased them but I have no use for the cable.

 

[Wes S]

I got myself OIDIO's silver-plated cable and FAW's Claire for my AFO and I hear no difference between the stock cable and the other two except for slightly better channel separation because the aftermarket cables are balanced. Either the AFO doesn't react that well to cable replacement or I don't know what I should be listening for.

To all,

Cable differences are usually quite small, and can be hard to hear. Upstream gear also plays a big part, in being able to actually hear a difference. I have never experienced a night and day difference, and it often takes several days of listening, to start to notice the subtle differences. I was a big advocate, of them being snake oil for a good while, until I got a better dac, and amp.

 

[erics75]

To all,

Cable differences are usually quite small, and can be hard to hear. Upstream gear also plays a big part, in being able to actually hear a difference. I have never experienced a night and day difference, and it often takes several days of listening, to start to notices the subtle differences. I was a big advocate, of them being snake oil for a good while, until I got a better dac, and amp.

A big part of it too is each individual's reaction to any changes heard. You can have two people hear the same degree of change, but describe it totally differently. One will say night and different, the other, slightly different. Plus there's the basic biological factors in play, which seems to get overlooked often. Take eyesight. We all know people have widely varying degrees of sight ability. I can read the bottom line of an eye chart (and won bets doing so! was told my eyesight is 20/13), my wife struggles with the top. She wears contacts, but if she breaks out the emergency glasses, they're coke bottles. Same applies to hearing. Some people have highly developed hearing. If there were an ear chart, as opposed to an eye chart, they'd be bottom line readers/hearers. Others obviously are more top line people (probably myself here! blessed with hawk eyes, but dull ears). So when the bottom liners describe what they're hearing, the top liners will cry foul and say that's impossible, it's imagined, or not there, because they cannot hear it. In the end it's important to respect each other, even when we disagree.

 

[autoteleology]

Same applies to hearing. Some people have highly developed hearing. If there were an ear chart, as opposed to an eye chart, they'd be bottom line readers/hearers. Others obviously are more top line people (probably myself here! blessed with hawk eyes, but dull ears). So when the bottom liners describe what they're hearing, the top liners will cry foul and say that's impossible, it's imagined, or not there, because they cannot hear it. In the end it's important to respect each other, even when we disagree.

The problem with this mentality is that it specifically interferes with people's ability to respect each other because it separates people and their opinions into classes and creates perverse incentives for people to believe they hear differences even when they don't. This leads to reviews in audio equipment becoming a meaningless purity test of who is the best persuasive writer. Everyone wants to believe they're exceptional and there are few to no standards available upon which to judge yourself relative to other people, just like everyone believes they're an above-average driver. Over my time in this hobby I have learned to more or less devalue the opinions of people when there isn't any data to back it up because even opinions founded on data are of questionable reliability. I especially find it suspect when there is a clear and obvious correlation in people's opinions towards a product class based on how much they spent on the product, when to quote the editor of Audio Science Review, "there is no obvious correlation between price and performance in general" when it comes to amps and DACs, things that are much more easily measured. Maybe there are differences in the way cables can sound, but I simply have little reason to trust anyone else's opinions on the matter because the topic is tainted by externalities.

It's not that I even wanted to get into this quagmire about cables when I made my post. My post was really about the fact that I just don't trust reviewers that have an artificial information asymmetry over everyone and almost nothing to say critically about the product. I've been suckered into enough flavor of the month hype trains for a lifetime to avoid speaking up and throwing some cold water into the proceedings. Maybe everything they're saying is dead-on but again, I don't like just taking the word of some guy on something when hundreds of dollars depend on it. We need more perspectives on the product.

 

[Wes S]

A big part of it too is each individual's reaction to any changes heard. You can have two people hear the same degree of change, but describe it totally differently. One will say night and different, the other, slightly different. Plus there's the basic biological factors in play, which seems to get overlooked often. Take eyesight. We all know people have widely varying degrees of sight ability. I can read the bottom line of an eye chart (and won bets doing so! was told my eyesight is 20/13), my wife struggles with the top. She wears contacts, but if she breaks out the emergency glasses, they're coke bottles. Same applies to hearing. Some people have highly developed hearing. If there were an ear chart, as opposed to an eye chart, they'd be bottom line readers/hearers. Others obviously are more top line people (probably myself here! blessed with hawk eyes, but dull ears). So when the bottom liners describe what they're hearing, the top liners will cry foul and say that's impossible, it's imagined, or not there, because they cannot hear it. In the end it's important to respect each other, even when we disagree.

Well said! I especially like the part about "respect each other"!

 

[flarex3]

I don't really claim that no cable makes any difference at any case. But the comment of:

the Vivo cables gives you better staging and a presentation with a bit more air. Bass is a little tighter and extends better. I

sounds like a false advertisement snake oil. Think the " +10 cm p*nis length in a week! " advertisements. They are snake oil, right? (sorry this is the best example I can give )

 

[erics75]

The problem with this mentality is that it specifically interferes with people's ability to respect each other because it separates people and their opinions into classes and creates perverse incentives for people to believe they hear differences even when they don't. This leads to reviews in audio equipment becoming a meaningless purity test of who is the best persuasive writer. Everyone wants to believe they're exceptional and there are few to no standards available upon which to judge yourself relative to other people, just like everyone believes they're an above-average driver. Over my time in this hobby I have learned to more or less devalue the opinions of people when there isn't any data to back it up because even opinions founded on data are of questionable reliability. I especially find it suspect when there is a clear and obvious correlation in people's opinions towards a product class based on how much they spent on the product, when to quote the editor of Audio Science Review, "there is no obvious correlation between price and performance in general" when it comes to amps and DACs, things that are much more easily measured. Maybe there are differences in the way cables can sound, but I simply have little reason to trust anyone else's opinions on the matter because the topic is tainted by externalities.

It's not that I even wanted to get into this quagmire about cables when I made my post. My post was really about the fact that I just don't trust reviewers that have an artificial information asymmetry over everyone and almost nothing to say critically about the product. I've been suckered into enough flavor of the month hype trains for a lifetime not to speak up and throw some cold water into the proceedings.

the reality is there are classes though, it's not an even playing field. take me and my wife, and our eyesight again. i see things she doesnt. at least not as i do (detail, sharpness, colors, etc.). no getting around that, my eyes are better, and my visual experiences are more enhanced than hers because i'm gifted with superior sight. i can make out fine details in paintings that she cant, she just sees vague blurry blobs. nothing can be done there, i'm in a different class than her inherently. there are things that exist FOR ME, that don't for her, because of my superior sight. even with her contacts, she's not keeping up with me. i can read street signs way earlier than she can. i can read fine print that's a blur to her. for her, that information doesn't really exist, does it? she can't perceive it, or take it in, at least not in any meaningful way. does that mean what i see is imagined? does that mean what i'm seeing isn't real? no, i just am gifted with an ability to perceive things she can't. my reality is different than hers. is it so hard to believe our ears are any different?

in the end, i always tell people to try thing out themselves before relying on anyone else's opinions, that way you'll know for sure what's real for you. as for trying to turn audio into science, i despise the notion. and that's just my opinion. i feel this way because audio is art to me, not science. i approach it with the intent to be moved, to have my emotions touched. give me the right music, presented adequately, and goosebumps will break out, my pulse quickens, i'm transported somewhere this crap world cannot pollute. that's all i care about. if i think i hear a difference in something, so be it. i don't care what the science says, it's immaterial to me. i want passion, not measurements. if i'm a fool, so be it, i'll be a happy fool.

EDIT - forgot to add, IMO classes don't interfere in our ability to respect each other, our attitude does. i do believe strongly in classes, as stated above, but i also respect everyone's opinions about it. i respect my wife's opinions on things she sees, even though i'm seeing more than she can. why? because in the end we're both touched by what we see, and are sharing that experience, even if it's different. it still connects us.

 

[Makiah S]

I started this neat thread called cable matters, if you guys want to take the discussion there that would be cool!

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cable-matters.859271/page-3
Or here https://www.head-fi.org/forums/sound-science.133/
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/how...audio-cables-do-not-make-a-difference.481385/

I bring it up as I'm a little irritate that every post here on this thread is about cables... a great conversation but not really the right topic for this Thread

Even @flarex3 who allegedly had a chance to hear Aeon 2 Closed with stock and aftermarket cable seems reluctant to actually talk about the headphone I imagine he maybe didn't hear it? Or only had a brief demo at a store front it would seem

Back onto the subject of the headphone I do have a Campfire Cascade with Cloth Pad and no Stock White Filters that is really spacious. Bass is still a bit much but I can chime in with how A2C compares to Cascade with ClothPads/No Filter here when A2C is available lol

 

[autoteleology]

the reality is there are classes though, it's not an even playing field. take me and my wife, and our eyesight again. i see things she doesnt. at least not as i do (detail, sharpness, colors, etc.). no getting around that, my eyes are better, and my visual experiences are more meaningful than hers because i'm gifted with superior sight. i can make out fine details in paintings that she cant, she just sees vague blurry blobs. nothing can be done there, i'm in a different class than her inherently. there are things that exist FOR ME, that don't for her, because of my superior sight. even with her contacts, she's not keeping up with me. i can read street signs way earlier than she can. i can read fine print that's a blur to her. for her, that information doesn't really exist, does it? she can't perceive it, or take it in, at least not in any meaningful way. does that mean what i see is imagined? does that mean what i'm seeing isn't real? no, i just am gifted with an ability to perceive things she can't. my reality is different than hers. is it so hard to believe our ears are any different?

in the end, i always tell people to try thing out themselves before relying on anyone else's opinions, that way you'll know for sure what's real for you. as for trying to turn audio into science, i despise the notion. and that's just my opinion. i feel this way because audio is art to me, not science. i approach it with the intent to be moved, to have my emotions touched. give me the right music, presented adequately, and goosebumps will break out, my pulse quickens, i'm transported somewhere this crap world cannot pollute. that's all i care about. if i think i hear a difference in something, so be it. i don't care what the science says, it's immaterial to me. i want passion, not measurements. if i'm a fool, so be it, i'll be a happy fool.

The first problem is that eyesight is a sense that is both objectively measurable and also obvious when it is compromised. It is easy and completely justified to sort people into classes of eyesight - hell, you need to in order to prescribe the medication that treats it. This is not true for sound. Raise your hand if you've ever been to an audiologist. Raise your other hand if you have a detailed measurement of your ear's loudness contour and/or miscellaneous issues.

The second problem is that I don't know how you resolve the cognitive dissonance of believing that some people's senses are objectively superior than others without evidence while also believing that this doesn't inherently lead to perverse biases and conflict in matters of discussion.

The third problem is that emotional opinions are fun to write but are of little worth to the reader who is trying to learn something. I'm sure it was already very obvious but I don't come to Head-Fi to make friends, I come here to figure out how to spend my money effectively. When people share opinions that are explicitly devoid of critical analysis or justification, you're getting in the way of my goal, which I resent.

I started this neat thread called cable matters, if you guys want to take the discussion there that would be cool!

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cable-matters.859271/page-3

I bring it up as I'm a little irritate that every post here on this thread is about cables... a great conversation but not really the right topic for this Thread

Even @flarex3 who allegedly had a chance to hear Aeon 2 Closed with stock and aftermarket cable seems reluctant to actually talk about the headphone I imagine he maybe didn't hear it? Or only had a brief demo at a store front it would seem

Back onto the subject of the headphone I do have a Campfire Cascade with Cloth Pad and no Stock White Filters that is really spacious. Bass is still a bit much but I can chime in with how A2C compares to Cascade with ClothPads/No Filter here when A2C is available lol

I'm pretty sure I caused it and I don't really want this talk about cables either. I've already said my piece on it and it's a discussion that is more or less totally unsolvable. The only reason I even brought it up was that the offerings available were problematic for my use case, and that I felt it was calling the credibility of the reviewer into question, not because I felt the need to say anything about cables in general. All this meandering in discussion is really just a symptom of the problem that nobody has these in their possession yet and so there's basically nothing to talk about except for speculation.