[ExTubeGamer]

Using Sinewave sweeps and listening by ear, I've found that the often observed high frequency peak on Timeless changes with different tips used. It could be 5khz, moving to 6.5khz, and with one tip even having no apparent high frequency peak!

So I'm thinking this peak is actually due to the tip-ear canal resonance which changes with insertion depth and the resonant ear canal chamber. It may not be due to Timeless per se. How else to explain this?

The same thing happens in FR measurement rigs, with coupler resonance, so we're told to ignore the spike at around 8khz (Crinacle actually provokes this for setup consistency).

Bottom line: to be fair to any IEM, reviewers should tip roll with different insertion depths, bore size before concluding the IEM has a high frequency spike.

That is precisely the reason why I use Comply Foams on my Timeless.

 

[Nabillion_786]

Nope. Coherency issues have ruined IEMs for me in the past, but not with the 3DT.

I haven’t listened to the Aladdin but from your description it sounds like my dreaded issue with hybrids. Especially when you’re listening to an instrument with a large pitch range like the piano or harpsichord, and during long runs you actually hear it undergo several metamorphoses as it moves up or down the register.

I’ve yet to hear anything like that with the 3DT. Coherence and timbre are its strongest suits imo. Apparently its two smaller DDs handle full bass duties in tandem (according to UM anyway) which keeps it tight and textured while the larger DD does mids and treble.

If it matters to you, the 3DT is not the bass cannon that it looks from the chart. It’s actually leaner than the Timeless, which has a solid bass shelf and truly awesome sub bass extension but sometimes takes a leisurely approach to keeping them in check. A/Bing them, the Timeless is more fun and the 3DT will always sound thinner at first until your ears adjust, but after that, you might appreciate not having the basso continuo bleed all over the rest of the orchestra.



Both are very good for male vocals in terms of timbre and the difference is not night and day.

But I did a quick A/B test of the two and in practically all instances it was advantage 3DT in terms of better texture, detail and weight, whereas the same voices on the Timeless lack a certain weight and come across more smoothed over. It’s more noticeable in bass and baritone voices, less so in tenors - think Leonard Cohen on You Want It Darker as opposed to say David Bowie on Life on Mars. You’d give up some of the gravelly texture in Cohen’s voice on the Timeless, but not on the 3DT.

So between these two, I’d point you to the 3DT for male vocals. But if you’re in the market for a iem specifically for vocals there’s also the Penon Volt but that’s in a different price bracket…

But if you specifically want to try a planar iem to hear what it can offer, it should be the Timeless.

Very interesting and I have also heard from someone else exactly what you have just said. So in otherwords deep, powerful vocals my lack that natural weight. But would you say the timeless has much more clarity, resolution and transient speed then the 3dt becaue of the planar tech? My main appeal for planar was because it's supposed to sound more realistic then ba's apparently and also the fact that there very quick drivers with good resolution and clarity if tuned well enough. It's because I have heard very natural and weighty sounding single dd's in the past but they compensate that for a lack of clarity and sometimes sounding too warm to the degree that speed and transients are affected which results in a dull, lifeless listen for my tastes.

Moondrop kato is the very first iem that checks all my needs for what I am seeking but since I've been out of the scene for a while I just want hear how recent iems have evolved in the chifi scene. Kato is a good indication of that indeed and that's why iems like the timeless and the upcoming penon serial really peak my interest.

 

[MRSallee]

Could you by any chance give us your impressions on that Shuoer Soloist 2 prototype in comparison to the Timeless? It seems somewhat better tuned to me at the first glance at least (for one, it is the reduced 2,5 kHz peak vs Timeless). I'm thinking of getting myself the Timeless in a few days, but maybe it would be better to wait for the Soloist 2 for the sake of a slight improvement/refinement over that.

I haven't spent as much time listening to it. Bass character is very similar to Timeless, top end seems a tad brighter which for me slightly improves sense of space but also adds a bit of a plasticky timbre to the treble. Fit is very similar, despite having different external shapes. I'm also told this isn't final tuning so not sure how indicative it will be of final product.

 

[JeanPaul Petrosyan]

I haven't spent as much time listening to it. Bass character is very similar to Timeless, top end seems a tad brighter which for me slightly improves sense of space but also adds a bit of a plasticky timbre to the treble. Fit is very similar, despite having different external shapes. I'm also told this isn't final tuning so not sure how indicative it will be of final product.

Interesting! Thank you very much for the info. It may not be a lot, but it's of a great value. Your impressions on Timeless were supposed to completely seal the deal for me, but instead I've got a feeling that it's far from being the best option for the money in my case. Still VERY eager to try out that planar sound, but it seems like there might be better performing options in the price range.

Spoiler

Are there? Seriously eyeing the Kato, but I'm a bit hesitant to go for the single DD due to it's technical limitations (if only for the FDX1, but those would be very hard to get for me and with a solid additional fee). I want something a fair bit more analytical and balanced vs the sometimes-over-the-top OH10 with it's upper mid bite and lavish bass boost, but not too dull/rounded off/inoffensive in comparison. I'm not averse to a somewhat leaner sound at all, in fact I prefer something more ethereal, "open" and "airy" but still somewhat "crispy"/"sparkly" with good speed and defined transients at the expense of thickness, "body", fuller/more natural note weight etc. To put it shortly - Senn HD600 is not my kind of sound. I fear "The Veil" and the bass bleed. It seemed like the Timeless is pretty much up my alley until more accounts on the bass quantity and quality (soft attack/blunted attack/bloom/bleed etc) came in. I'd go for the Blessing 2 but those are out of my reach price wise. I'm also looking at the FiiO FD5 (available for a good price of 210-240$ for a second-hand set) since I value expansive an soudstage and sense of detailing that comes with a well done moderately V-shaped tuning, but I'm worried about somewhat peaky and potentially harsh upper mids/lower treble.

 

[-rowan-]

Very interesting and I have also heard from someone else exactly what you have just said. So in otherwords deep, powerful vocals my lack that natural weight. But would you say the timeless has much more clarity, resolution and transient speed then the 3dt becaue of the planar tech? My main appeal for planar was because it's supposed to sound more realistic then ba's apparently and also the fact that there very quick drivers with good resolution and clarity if tuned well enough. It's because I have heard very natural and weighty sounding single dd's in the past but they compensate that for a lack of clarity and sometimes sounding too warm to the degree that speed and transients are affected which results in a dull, lifeless listen for my tastes.

Actually… nope. The competition is probably closer than it looks. The Timeless is very competent and has all the hallmarks of a well implemented planar but there’s still some way to go. For one, in terms of resolution, it is a significant step or three down from the Audeze iSine 20 (though this may be the only remaining advantage the iSine 20 has over the Timeless).

And while it most definitely doesn’t suffer from BA timbre, there are other factors like the smoothness, attack and decay that may affect the realism of its portrayal of acoustic instruments.

The 3DT has very good transients and resolution that makes for an engaging listen - it delivers excellent and vivid detail without having to be forward or having the volume turned up. It leans slightly warm, yes, but never overbakes things.

I know it seems like I’m schiitting all over the Timeless in the Timeless thread, but I want to say that I actually enjoy it a lot and I just want to help moderate expectations a little for folks who are waiting/deciding. There are also things I really love about the Timeless - that visceral sub bass rumble, for instance, is alone almost worth its price tag. Other IEMs slam harder than this, sure, but that subterranean rumble just has to be felt. Also, it is way more comfortable than all the IEMs I’ve mentioned.

Moondrop kato is the very first iem that checks all my needs for what I am seeking but since I've been out of the scene for a while I just want hear how recent iems have evolved in the chifi scene. Kato is a good indication of that indeed and that's why iems like the timeless and the upcoming penon serial really peak my interest.

I was out of the scene for a while myself and started catching up maybe about half a year ago. It’s a great time to be back in terms of what’s available in chifi now. I’m intrigued by Kato and the upcoming Serial as well.

 

[RCracer777]

I'm in need of some advice, I was planning to buy a Timeless form Shenzenaudio on Ali during the 11.11 sales but it went out of stock (3.5mm version). And DD-audio (Linsoul) doesn't seem to give a discount on it for 11.11. Now I've found them on a couple of other stores cheaper now than their 11.11 prices. But does any of you have any experience with either?
DUDO Audio at €203,19
Magicaudio at €200,85

Both seem to get a lot of good reviews but unlike Shenzenaudio they also get occasional bad reviews with shipping issues (Magicaudio more than DUDO). And they haven't been around for long (1-2 years).

 

[DeJaVu]

I'm in need of some advice, I was planning to buy a Timeless form Shenzenaudio on Ali during the 11.11 sales but it went out of stock (3.5mm version). And DD-audio (Linsoul) doesn't seem to give a discount on it for 11.11. Now I've found them on a couple of other stores cheaper now than their 11.11 prices. But does any of you have any experience with either?
DUDO Audio at €203,19
Magicaudio at €200,85

Both seem to get a lot of good reviews but unlike Shenzenaudio they also get occasional bad reviews with shipping issues (Magicaudio more than DUDO). And they haven't been around for long (1-2 years).

DD Audio on aliexpress is more or less same as Linsoul, a party that split from the main company but still cooperates with Linsoul. Heard few good things about Dudo too, so should be a decent seller, no first hand experience.
As a rule, look for stores that have been around for some time, id say at least 2+ years and have 98+- rating to minimize your chances of getting bad experience.

 

[Nabillion_786]

Actually… nope. The competition is probably closer than it looks. The Timeless is very competent and has all the hallmarks of a well implemented planar but there’s still some way to go. For one, in terms of resolution, it is a significant step or three down from the Audeze iSine 20 (though this may be the only remaining advantage the iSine 20 has over the Timeless).

And while it most definitely doesn’t suffer from BA timbre, there are other factors like the smoothness, attack and decay that may affect the realism of its portrayal of acoustic instruments.

The 3DT has very good transients and resolution that makes for an engaging listen - it delivers excellent and vivid detail without having to be forward or having the volume turned up. It leans slightly warm, yes, but never overbakes things.

I know it seems like I’m schiitting all over the Timeless in the Timeless thread, but I want to say that I actually enjoy it a lot and I just want to help moderate expectations a little for folks who are waiting/deciding. There are also things I really love about the Timeless - that visceral sub bass rumble, for instance, is alone almost worth its price tag. Other IEMs slam harder than this, sure, but that subterranean rumble just has to be felt. Also, it is way more comfortable than all the IEMs I’ve mentioned.


I was out of the scene for a while myself and started catching up maybe about half a year ago. It’s a great time to be back in terms of what’s available in chifi now. I’m intrigued by Kato and the upcoming Serial as well.

Thanks great post!

 

[holsen]

Nope. Coherency issues have ruined IEMs for me in the past, but not with the 3DT.

I haven’t listened to the Aladdin but from your description it sounds like my dreaded issue with hybrids. Especially when you’re listening to an instrument with a large pitch range like the piano or harpsichord, and during long runs you actually hear it undergo several metamorphoses as it moves up or down the register.

I’ve yet to hear anything like that with the 3DT. Coherence and timbre are its strongest suits imo. Apparently its two smaller DDs handle full bass duties in tandem (according to UM anyway) which keeps it tight and textured while the larger DD does mids and treble.

If it matters to you, the 3DT is not the bass cannon that it looks from the chart. It’s actually leaner than the Timeless, which has a solid bass shelf and truly awesome sub bass extension but sometimes takes a leisurely approach to keeping them in check. A/Bing them, the Timeless is more fun and the 3DT will always sound thinner at first until your ears adjust, but after that, you might appreciate not having the basso continuo bleed all over the rest of the orchestra.



Both are very good for male vocals in terms of timbre and the difference is not night and day.

But I did a quick A/B test of the two and in practically all instances it was advantage 3DT in terms of better texture, detail and weight, whereas the same voices on the Timeless lack a certain weight and come across more smoothed over. It’s more noticeable in bass and baritone voices, less so in tenors - think Leonard Cohen on You Want It Darker as opposed to say David Bowie on Life on Mars. You’d give up some of the gravelly texture in Cohen’s voice on the Timeless, but not on the 3DT.

So between these two, I’d point you to the 3DT for male vocals. But if you’re in the market for a iem specifically for vocals there’s also the Penon Volt but that’s in a different price bracket…

But if you specifically want to try a planar iem to hear what it can offer, it should be the Timeless.

So interesting. We all hear differently, have different preference and of corse there's tips. I love my 3DT but if I were forced to choose between the 3DT and Timeless, I have to choose the Timeless. To me it has better note weight, clearly (to me) deeper bass with more texture and velvety liquid mids the way only a planar can... Treble extension goes to 3DT for me which is not to say Timeless does not have good resolution or extentsion because it does. Interestingly enough if you read the 3DT thread, everyone praises its timbre where the biggest complaint is harshness at 5 to 6K with several members modding the 3DT with filters. On the timeless some have complained about the 2 to 3K spike. I don't have a problem with either set and for sure planars "Mature with Age" they were good out of the box and 300 hours later they, to me, became a beautiful easy listen full of texture and detail. That's my experience YMMV

 

[Toxolotl01]

I'm in need of some advice, I was planning to buy a Timeless form Shenzenaudio on Ali during the 11.11 sales but it went out of stock (3.5mm version). And DD-audio (Linsoul) doesn't seem to give a discount on it for 11.11. Now I've found them on a couple of other stores cheaper now than their 11.11 prices. But does any of you have any experience with either?
DUDO Audio at €203,19
Magicaudio at €200,85

Both seem to get a lot of good reviews but unlike Shenzenaudio they also get occasional bad reviews with shipping issues (Magicaudio more than DUDO). And they haven't been around for long (1-2 years).

I'm not sure if this offer is available to everyone but I just ordered the Timeless a few days ago for 155€ (Seller Coupon and Coins) from Le Electric Audio Store.

 

[holsen]

I'm not sure if this offer is available to everyone but I just ordered the Timeless a few days ago for 155€ (Seller Coupon and Coins) from Le Electric Audio Store.

If you read several pages back, I worked a deal with DUDO (where I got mine for $176) that if you write to them and told them you heard on Headfi.. They'll sell to you now for $170. I have no financial interest just an arrangement I made for my buddies on Headfi because I liked the store and the IEMs.

 

[Toxolotl01]

If you read several pages back, I worked a deal with DUDO (where I got mine for $176) that if you write to them and told them you heard on Headfi.. They'll sell to you now for $170. I have no financial interest just an arrangement I made for my buddies on Headfi because I liked the store and the IEMs.

Thats nice!
Are taxes included? Since the EU got new laws for importing stuff, aliexpress adds taxes atomatically.
In the 155€ are already 24,79€ taxes included

 

[holsen]

Thats nice!
Are taxes included? Since the EU got new laws for importing stuff, aliexpress adds taxes atomatically.
In the 155€ are already 24,79€ taxes included

I don't know. I'm in Canada and for us Canucks and them Yanks it's $170 all in. At that price, as long I don't request express, it Flys under the radar of our customs office. The minute I use DHL, FEXEX, UPS, etc it triggers all kinds of extra fees. One thing for sure, he's offering $170 if you wait it's $220 ++++

 

[InvisibleInk]

If you read several pages back, I worked a deal with DUDO (where I got mine for $176) that if you write to them and told them you heard on Headfi.. They'll sell to you now for $170. I have no financial interest just an arrangement I made for my buddies on Headfi because I liked the store and the IEMs.

Can confirm! I took advantage of that. Thanks again!

 

[Fat Larry]

I don't know. I'm in Canada and for us Canucks and them Yanks it's $170 all in. At that price, as long I don't request express, it Flys under the radar of our customs office. The minute I use DHL, FEXEX, UPS, etc it triggers all kinds of extra fees. One thing for sure, he's offering $170 if you wait it's $220 ++++

That's funny, and opposite to my experience. I incurred no taxes with DHL shipping from Linsoul, but Ali will apply NZ tax at checkout and there's no way around it. I guess NZ customs are slackers.