[Tomm11]

So as I get to the end of my month-long return window with the Timeless, I've gone through what feels like a lifetime with them and listened to well over 2000 songs (I know because I had 2 1K playlists to go through lol) including my favorites multiple times. In summary:

1. The driver makes a difference: This tuning would be unacceptable for my tastes. That this amount of mid-bass didn't immediately ruin my listening experience makes me excited to see what happens when one of these is tuned properly.
2. EQ is required for me. 2 weeks in, started using the Harman/Oratory1990 tuning and never looked back. Harman is really the tuning that works best to my ears (or at least a tuning with a flat low-mids). The detail and sense of clarity is still far above my typical 1DD sets (looking at you KXXS). EQ also fixes the narrowness and depth of the soundstage for my ears (after all these are conjured PERCEPTIONS of something that isn't happening in my ear-canals).
3. However, when not critically listening, what they add is not easy to quantify. Which leads to my final conclusion...
4. If I'm going to EQ this every time I listen to it, then why not get the cheaper S12 or P1 Max instead? Why the Timeless vs any other 1Planar set?

So these are likely going back (a few days left) but have set a new standard of what I expect at this price point (coherence, detail, lack of distortion) but also reinforce my sneaking suspicion that it's the tuning that's making the major difference for me outside of a quiet A/B session. Bring on the Harman tuned version 7Hz!

I disagree with the following statements:
1. These are not as detailed as X. I just don't hear this and stand by my hearing ability (playing music by ear, lots of statements have been made about accuracy over the years). I have never heard any new detail even on kilo-buck sets.
2. These are flat and boring/not dynamic. Not any worse from what I've heard over the years. The stock/heavy mid-bass gives this impression. Low distortion makes these just as dynamic or more.
3. The original cables are fine. Big no on this one (and eating my own prior opinions on this one). First time I've ever heard a cable made a difference.

If cheaper options didn't exist, I'd keep these and just use them with EQ. 1DD is no longer going to cut it for my ears anymore (only exception are sets with HDSS which seem to have the same effect on my ears - less distortion).

My bad, in order to compare IEMs, I try to get them to sound the same. I find that even minor adjustments in one frequency band makes such vast differences that it's hard to compare. Like EQ'ing down 13k (as suggested in the Precog thread) affects sub-bass rumble lol.

That's an interesting way to look at it. I'm always chasing a specific sound. It's Harman with additional upper treble extension (because I hear bass more than any other instrument, I like that mid-bass scoop to equalize things). So the more IEMs deviate from that, the less I'm going to listen to them. But I see your point. Do you use different sets for different genres?

Edit: I should mention the fit is definitely finicky for me. Xelastecs are the only tips that work for more than 30 minutes. With MS Xeleastecs, I can use them all day no prob.

I think I get where you are coming from now. You don't believe there are any real sonic advantages to expensive iem's. Pretty much everything comes down to tuning. Does that about sum it up?

 

[Alex May]

Xelastecs are the only tips that work for more than 30 minutes.

If only they weren't so sticky... I had to put up with them for the sake of sound for quite a while until I've discovered SednaEarfit regular. Now I think I have found my universal eartips for all the IEMs.

 

[Ohmboy]

Pretty much everything comes down to tuning. Does that about sum it up?

A preferred personal tuning yes but as you spend your personal tuning gets refined with demising returns obviously

 

[logiatype]

I think I get where you are coming from now. You don't believe there are any real sonic advantages to expensive iem's. Pretty much everything comes down to tuning. Does that about sum it up?

A strict advantage? No.
There are differences I can hear in a quiet environment in a direct A/B, but this is so miniscule for normal listening like the incoherence in hybrids/tribrids.
I think there are technologies like HDSS that make a difference for fatigue over time but I don't see much of anything like that in more expensive sets.

If only they weren't so sticky... I had to put up with them for the sake of sound for quite a while until I've discovered SednaEarfit regular. Now I think I have found my universal eartips for all the IEMs.

Thank you. I'll order a set of those. The Timeless nozzle length and angle probably has something to do with the discomfort over time (feels fine on the outer ear).

A preferred personal tuning yes but as you spend your personal tuning gets refined with demising returns obviously

This is such a great point. When I first joined this forum (first step into IEM "HiFi") I was buying IEMs with heaps of mid-bass + sub-bass. Trying more expensive sets over the years has changed that completely. I think some companies get away with charging a lot for very little now until they get undercut.

 

[Truthseekr]

If only they weren't so sticky... I had to put up with them for the sake of sound for quite a while until I've discovered SednaEarfit regular. Now I think I have found my universal eartips for all the IEMs.

You might try the Sedna Crystals too. Kind of an in between from Xelastics and regular. Not quite so sticky.

 

[Truthseekr]

I don't know anything about the S12, but a decent all copper cable and R2R (NOS) DAC can really help with the timbre on the Timeless.

I am listening with this combo below right now, and it sounds hauntingly lifelike.

Do you think the cable makes a difference of just the DAC? I know sources can change things considerably but I’ve never been able to tell a difference with cables personally.

 

[Wes S]

Do you think the cable makes a difference of just the DAC? I know sources can change things considerably but I’ve never been able to tell a difference with cables personally.

I sure do. I actually have another upgrade cable (Satin Chimera II 8 wire), that got delivered today and can't wait to try that one as well. I am a cable guy, and always upgrade all cables in my systems, and think that is a great way to fine tune the sound once you have everything else in place.

 

[samandhi]

I sure do. I actually have another upgrade cable (Satin Chimera II 8 wire), that got delivered today and can't wait to try that one as well. I am a cable guy, and always upgrade all cables in my systems, and think that is a great way to fine tune the sound once you have everything else in place.

I didn't used to be a cable believer (and even now I don't hear differences in full headphones) until I got the Audiosens T800 back when they first came out. WOW! What a difference it made to the sound of those. Now, it has also been my experience that some IEMs change in sound more dramatically than others with a cable upgrade, but they all do to some extent (to my ears).

Tips are another way that fine tune the IEMs to sound a bit different IMO, but I think the change it makes with tips is different than the sound change from a cable swap. So you have SO many options to fine tune the sound of a given set.

 

[Truthseekr]

I didn't used to be a cable believer (and even now I don't hear differences in full headphones) until I got the Audiosens T800 back when they first came out. WOW! What a difference it made to the sound of those. Now, it has also been my experience that some IEMs change in sound more dramatically than others with a cable upgrade, but they all do to some extent (to my ears).

Tips are another way that fine tune the IEMs to sound a bit different IMO, but I think the change it makes with tips is different than the sound change from a cable swap. So you have SO many options to fine tune the sound of a given set.

I’m not saying you are wrong but to play devil’s advocate, has anyone graphed FR with different cables with significant differences? That would seem to be a way to end there cable debate once and for all.

 

[Tomm11]

I’m not saying you are wrong but to play devil’s advocate, has anyone graphed FR with different cables with significant differences? That would seem to be a way to end there cable debate once and for all.

That would only end the debate if FR was what was responsible for the difference. Unless something is wrong with the cable, the FR will not change. So, if there are differences, then something else is responsible besides FR. If one has never heard a difference in a cable swap, then one will remain a skeptic. Perfectly understandable and much better for ones wallet and ones sanity.

 

[Wes S]

Speaking of cables. . . Just checking in to say, I just got my Satin Audio Chimera II 8 wire, and I am loving what I am hearing so far.

The stage has expanded in all directions, the timbre has improved, imgaing has improved, the bass has tightened up but still hits, the vocals have cleaned up a bit and come forward, and the highs have just the right amount of sparkle. There is more of an ease to the sound and it sounds more cohesive and analoge like. I think I found a winner, and back to the music I go. . .

 

[samandhi]

That would only end the debate if FR was what was responsible for the difference. Unless something is wrong with the cable, the FR will not change. So, if there are differences, then something else is responsible besides FR. If one has never heard a difference in a cable swap, then one will remain a skeptic. Perfectly understandable and much better for ones wallet and ones sanity.

I like the way you put that!

Just like tone, imaging, layering, attack, decay, etc... changing a cable is not a quantifiable number that can be plotted on a graph. Our ears are more complex in what they pick up than a machine could ever fully measure in a scientific way.

 

[logiatype]

I like the way you put that!

Just like tone, imaging, layering, attack, decay, etc... changing a cable is not a quantifiable number that can be plotted on a graph. Our ears are more complex in what they pick up than a machine could ever fully measure in a scientific way.

What I don't get is why some of these are considered absolute positives. Why would a forced wide soundstage in every rendition be a good thing? When someone says this I'd like to know what specific song they are talking about.

 

[jonas808]

What tips do you guys use on the timeless?

 

[Alex May]

What tips do you guys use on the timeless?

Azla Sedna EarFit (Regular) - widest bore, long stem, non-sticky (looking at you, Xelastec!), sizes up to 14mm. After a dozen of tip-rolling attempts this is the first time I don't have to use EQ, I don't have trouble fitting them in and I don't loose bass, detail, soundstage or any other sound property while the tuning is the most natural for my ears for the first time since I've got my Timeless. Using them on my Moondrop Kato as well.