[Aanta]

Holy smokes those things are expensive. Have you ever tried any of the new production Shuguang tubes that are supposed to give the Brimars a run for their money?

I have heard Shuguang tubes, but never brought anyone back home and done any A/B test and so might be nothing more than an opinion.
Anyway, treble is ok in the Shuguang without shining in any way, midrange is thick and I guess some will consider this to be 'presence' as they will lift a singer or instruments that play in the midrange forward, bass is firm and warm in the upper part but falling a bit in the deeper range, just a bit low. This might have been due to the electronics (which were completely linear) and speakers. You mentioned Brimar, I had those for a loan and I understand people might compare them, because those have a somewhat similar characteristic.
Or the short answer, they certainly have a special 'tube' sound but not the characteristics I have been looking for.

I give a mini review of my collection, but I have already a separate post with the same information under LeFigaro headphone amp tuberolling:
My favourite 6SN7 is Matsushita (GT), Toshiba (GT) & Radioshack 'Lifetime' (GTB). Which also is a Matsushita but it sound a bit different. Sylvania (GTB) trailing just behind because it is very musical. GE's 6SN7GTB is open and detailed, have clear voices but cannot handle a drumset/cymbals. RCA don't sound really clear, is allround ok without making me happy in any category.

Outside competition: RFT, 6SN7 no extra letters, the tube was made in 1954, very airy, musical but a far cry from being linear and come with an odd weak lower end - almost as it got a phaze issue. This do not fit descriptions or review of these tubes at all. But my 12AU7 RTF have the same characteristics, so some production runs might have been like this.
Tronal, Russian made - just avoid it!

 

[MarkusTubesNow]

I have heard Shuguang tubes, but never brought anyone back home and done any A/B test and so might be nothing more than an opinion.
Anyway, treble is ok in the Shuguang without shining in any way, midrange is thick and I guess some will consider this to be 'presence' as they will lift a singer or instruments that play in the midrange forward, bass is firm and warm in the upper part but falling a bit in the deeper range, just a bit low. This might have been due to the electronics (which were completely linear) and speakers. You mentioned Brimar, I had those for a loan and I understand people might compare them, because those have a somewhat similar characteristic.
Or the short answer, they certainly have a special 'tube' sound but not the characteristics I have been looking for.

I give a mini review of my collection, but I have already a separate post with the same information under LeFigaro headphone amp tuberolling:
My favourite 6SN7 is Matsushita (GT), Toshiba (GT) & Radioshack 'Lifetime' (GTB). Which also is a Matsushita but it sound a bit different. Sylvania (GTB) trailing just behind because it is very musical. GE's 6SN7GTB is open and detailed, have clear voices but cannot handle a drumset/cymbals. RCA don't sound really clear, is allround ok without making me happy in any category.

Outside competition: RFT, 6SN7 no extra letters, the tube was made in 1954, very airy, musical but a far cry from being linear and come with an odd weak lower end - almost as it got a phaze issue. This do not fit descriptions or review of these tubes at all. But my 12AU7 RTF have the same characteristics, so some production runs might have been like this.
Tronal, Russian made - just avoid it!

I think any discussion of Shuguangs needs to identify which ones you are specifically talking about. Because there is the black treasure series but which are called also CV - 181 T's and Z's also the so-called Western Electric 6SN7s, and then also the British ones and then there's also those Globe ones so there's a whole lot of different ones that they make so apparently they all have different sound.

 

[Aanta]

I think any discussion of Shuguangs needs to identify which ones you are specifically talking about. Because there is the black treasure series but which are called also CV - 181 T's and Z's also the so-called Western Electric 6SN7s, and then also the British ones and then there's also those Globe ones so there's a whole lot of different ones that they make so apparently they all have different sound.

Hello Markus you are absolutely right about that.
I was hesitant to post at all actually but without any reply I decided to give an opinion at least.
Sadly now afterwards those Shuguang is the ones hardest to identify with certainty.

But I can confirm it was not the Treasure series, which I actually have heard since, but not long or in a quiet setting to make any opinion or even estimate about those.
The ones I heard was not from the 'other' military factory either who are marked with a star, I own that variety actually.
The ones that got a listening test was the commercial Shuguang that still had the white text - when I did a search I find tubes with similar text that now is in red. And they had a brown base.
Here is an image of the looks of the tube!
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/...8qtFOabQJAeFjXz06lxH9QLfsnf8S_HAnbaHqwz_1MoT2

Yes those that look like a globe look cute, and I wished to buy one but at the time I only found those sold in pairs.

The Matushita tube is a grey plate clear top and seem to be from 1970 but with so much uncertainty that I decided not to mention that at first it is a GT.
It have a sibling with the Realistic 'Lifetime' radio shack look physically identical but got a chrome top, and is a GTB.
Now that it had the text 'Made in Japan' put me on the track of identify the manufacturer it is either 1960 or 1970. When opening the box the text 23 CR can be seen.

The Toshiba tubes all are grey plate and chrome top and the seller claimed they were from about that same time frame.
These arrived without their boxes.

The RCA are grey plate, chrome top and obviously USA made.

The Sylvania is a chrome top black plate and GTB, marked made in USA and the text "cg" and "AKA" on the side, the box do not provide any further lead.

Lastly the GE 6SN7GTB is a black plate chrome top that came in a consumer box but with military stripe glued on. The text on the stripe state the tube type of course but also M2463-117OCM2463
As it is a military issue the batch had gone trough rigorous testing. But they were never intended for playing nice music with. And even though it is quite nice for the price, it is beaten by those mentioned above.

 

[jambaj0e]

New tubes alert! So I got the Psvane CV181-T Mark II to replace the stock Shuguang WE6SN7 on my Cayin HA-300 amp that has 6SN7 as driver tubes. I do really, really like the stock tube, but I want even more. My system is as follows:

Custom Windows 10 PC to iFi Nano iUSB3.0 (usb conditioner) to Chord Qutest DAC to Cayin HA-300 amp to Audeze LCD-3 Fazor.

(SUMMARY: Love these tubes! Better than the already excellent stock Shuguang WE6SN7 and better than my pair of 1952 Sylvania 3-hole Bad Boys)

So after about 3 hours, here's what I notice about the CV181 vs Shuguang.

The Shuguang has really nice soundstage and excellent separation, with a lot of energy and musicality. At times, though the mid-treble vocal can get somewhat grainy. I also tend to use EQ to add some body and bottom end to the bass, which although they're nicely responsive and tight, they can be slightly lean with certain instruments like bass guitar. There's impact across the range, and transients are nice and fast. For stock tubes, these are excellent, and actually, when I tried my pair of 1952 Sylvania 3-hole Bad Boys, I switched back to the Shuguangs since the Bad Boys dampened the treble a bit too much in order to get a little more bass, which wasn't much.

Moving to the Psvane CV181-T mkII, wow, right away, these sounded beautiful! Just a tad darker, sweeter, and warmer than the Shuguang, but no less musical and energetic.If anything, there's a sense of "roundness" to the notes, a little more "tubey" than the fairly neutral Shuguang, and definitely more body and slam in the mid-bass and bass. I didn't have to EQ anymore. The treble is slightly smoothen out, but not dampened, meaning I still get nice crisp cymbals and anything high that hits, but vocals and wind/string instruments have a smoother, sweeter high melody.

This is especially great for jazz and classical/soundtrack, but works well for pop, rock, EDM, and yes, rap. The only fault so far that I found is if the mid to mid-treble is densely layered, it can get a little too dense. Also, the mid-vocal can be a little too forward if it's recorded forward. It almost takes over too much at times, but, luckily this doesn't happen too often. I'm hoping these two things will settle down as I continue to burn in these tubes.

Packaging-wise, if you get the Matched Pair Premium Grade from Amazon, you'll get it in a nice case. I ordered it on Monday March 9, it was shipped from Hong Kong, and it arrived today on March 16. Surprising, considering the craziness we're all dealing with the Coronavirus.





Only thing I'm a bit disappointed is that the left tube has some uneven application of the grey coating at its bottom, and some of the gold coating is also rubbed off




Here is how it looks compared to the stock tube



And installed in my HA-300






Music listened on Amazon Music HD (via Jriver in order to bypass Windows 10's upscaling) mostly in UltraHD (24-bit 48Khz to 192Khz) and some in HD (16-bit 44.Khz)
- Selena Gomez - Lose You to Love Me (Amazing test for low, powerful piano, great vocals, low distinct bass pluck, etc)
- Friday Night Plans - Plastic Love (that dark electronic groove)
- Jeff Buckley - Hallelujah (that vocal and guitar!)
- Heize feat. Dean - And July
- Heize feat. Dean - Shut Up and Groove (Has this fast, rhythmic bass groove and just great vocals)
- Common - Resurrection
- Polo & Pan - Bakara (An audiophile dream with amazing percussive rhythm and so much to listen and pick out. One of my favorites)
- Fleetwood Mac - Dreams
- Fleetwood Mac - The Chain
- Monty Alexander - Sweet Georgia Brown (really tests the speed, dynamic, separation, and transient of a system. Fast and complex!)
- The Yuri Honing Trio - Walking on the Moon
- Whitney Houston - I Have Nothing
- Mariah Carey - Fourth of July
- Arne Domnerus - Limehouse Blues (live)
- Damien Rice - My Favorite Faded Fantasy
- Taylor Swift - Delicate
- Ariana Grande - Thank You Next
- Ariana Grande - Break Up with Your Girlfriend, I'm Bored
- Missy Elliot - Work It
- Lizzo - Good as Hell
- Queen - Under Pressure (remastered)
- Ben Webster - Ben's Blues
- M83 - Outro
- Santana feat Michelle Branch - The Game of Love
- Rebecca Pidgeon - Spanish Harlem
- Sara K - If I Could Sing Your Blues
- The Fred Hersh Trio - Played Twice
- Johnny Frigo - I Love Paris
- Paquito D'Rivera - Havana Cafe
- Bela Banfalvi & Antoino Vivaldi - The Four Seasons "Summer" III. Presto
- Jung Jaiel (Parasite Soundtrack) - The Belt of Faith (that amazing montage from the film!)
- Heize - But, I am Your Buddy
- Lisa Batiashvili - Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto in D Major 1. Allegro moderato

 

[MarkusTubesNow]

Thanks for your post! I found your post very informative because I'm very curious to hear what others think about these Psvane and Shuguang 6SN7 variants. I especially appreciated the comparison with your Bad Boys. Very interesting.

So, please continue to post on this thread about these tubes. How many hours do you have on the stock WE6SN7s? Also, I'm interested to hear whether you'll be stocking up on any spares in the future and, if so, what tubes you'll go for. That will say a lot about how much you really like the CV-181 TIIs.

Also, it's interesting to see which specific variant of the Shuguang "WE"6SN7 you are comparing the Psvane CV-181-TIIs to. I'm really most curious, though, about how the CV 181 TIIs compare with those super-tall WE6SN7s with the exceptionally tall bottle and the red base. Interesting that the WE6SN7 has several different-looking types.

Thanks again for your post. Also, that is a gorgeous looking amp you're using. What the heck are those crazy looking balloon shaped tubes in there? Those look really cool.

 

[jambaj0e]

Thanks for the kind words. I probably have spent a good 50-75 hours on the stock WE6SN7, but since my HA-300 was an open box, I believe the tubes have been burnt in, too. Here's a place that sells those tubes:

https://www.aliexpress.com/i/32960407649.html

I should probably sell my pair of '52 Sylvania 3-hole Bad Boys, too, since I won't need them anymore.

 

[thomaskong78]

I had been happy with Sylvania vt231 made in 1940's.


But some people claim that Bad boy version made in 1952 has better bass and body than vt231.


Can anybody confirm the below linked tubes are genuine "Bad boy"?


Tests NOS Matched Pair Sylvania 6SN7GT Black 3 Rivet T Bad Boy Plate TALL Tubes


thanks in advance

 

[larcenasb]

Here's the info you need, from another thread:

"Re: Just a head's up: RCA 5692 red base 6SN7's are awesome

« Reply #8 on: 23 Oct 2013, 03:22 pm »

Very insightful description from Ebay's sushifanatic seller on what a real Bad Boy is:

"Please note that a many people are listing Sylvania "Bad Boy" tubes which, in fact, are not true Bad Boys, and are worth considerably less, and sound extremely different. All Sylvania Bad Boy tubes are:

1. Made by Sylvania, although they can be relabeled / rebranded by a number of other companies, like RCA, Philco, Westinghouse, etc.
2. Are made between very late 1951 and very early 1953. (This tube has a date code of 152, representing the 52nd week of 1951.) The first digit of the date code represents the year, and needs to start with a 1, 2, or 3. The 1, 2, or 3 may be underlined. If it was made in 1950 it is NOT a Bad Boy.
3. Have a BOTTOM foil getter. Flashing can extend up to 1/3 of the way up the tube, from the bottom. If it has a chrome top, it is NOT a Bad Boy type tube. Bad Boys ALL have clear glass on top.
4. The TOP mica is rectangular, with 3 spikes on each of the shorter edges. These three spikes look like small triangular edges bent down on each side. If there are no spikes, it is not a Bad Boy.
5. The BOTTOM mica is rectangular
6. Have opposing black T-plates
7. Has a black base
8. Has copper grid posts
9. Have three rivet holes (like the one I am selling.) There is debate on this issue, but on another website, someone disassembled the two and three hole tubes to document the internal differences.
10. Are ONLY a 6SN7GT tube type. Not a 6SN7GTA or 6SN7GTB.
11. Are NOT labeled VT231, which looks very similar, but were made earlier. (Still great tubes, but lack the bass of the Bad Boy types.) However, military tubes marked JAN-CHS-6SN7GT CAN be real Bad Boys."

The date codes don't seem to match what this description says, but the main structural characteristics are there--most crucially, the three rivet holes on both plates. But man... $284.15...

 

[thomaskong78]

Here's the info you need, from another thread:

"Re: Just a head's up: RCA 5692 red base 6SN7's are awesome

« Reply #8 on: 23 Oct 2013, 03:22 pm »

Very insightful description from Ebay's sushifanatic seller on what a real Bad Boy is:

"Please note that a many people are listing Sylvania "Bad Boy" tubes which, in fact, are not true Bad Boys, and are worth considerably less, and sound extremely different. All Sylvania Bad Boy tubes are:

1. Made by Sylvania, although they can be relabeled / rebranded by a number of other companies, like RCA, Philco, Westinghouse, etc.
2. Are made between very late 1951 and very early 1953. (This tube has a date code of 152, representing the 52nd week of 1951.) The first digit of the date code represents the year, and needs to start with a 1, 2, or 3. The 1, 2, or 3 may be underlined. If it was made in 1950 it is NOT a Bad Boy.
3. Have a BOTTOM foil getter. Flashing can extend up to 1/3 of the way up the tube, from the bottom. If it has a chrome top, it is NOT a Bad Boy type tube. Bad Boys ALL have clear glass on top.
4. The TOP mica is rectangular, with 3 spikes on each of the shorter edges. These three spikes look like small triangular edges bent down on each side. If there are no spikes, it is not a Bad Boy.
5. The BOTTOM mica is rectangular
6. Have opposing black T-plates
7. Has a black base
8. Has copper grid posts
9. Have three rivet holes (like the one I am selling.) There is debate on this issue, but on another website, someone disassembled the two and three hole tubes to document the internal differences.
10. Are ONLY a 6SN7GT tube type. Not a 6SN7GTA or 6SN7GTB.
11. Are NOT labeled VT231, which looks very similar, but were made earlier. (Still great tubes, but lack the bass of the Bad Boy types.) However, military tubes marked JAN-CHS-6SN7GT CAN be real Bad Boys."

The date codes don't seem to match what this description says, but the main structural characteristics are there--most crucially, the three rivet holes on both plates. But man... $284.15...

I paid 100$ for Sylvie vt231 made in 1940's two years ago.

So much I like the sound of it, I bought one more pair at 125$ last year.

It give balanced sound with nice sparkle on the top.

Now it cost 150$ or more.

But bad boy over 200$ is overpriced upon hype.

I also have Nos Amerex 6sn7 made in Canada and RCA Gtb and Sylvie GTB made in 1955 coming in this week.

I will forgo Bad boy unless I can get them under 160$ per pair.

 

[Wes S]

Hey fellow tube rollers! I am back to the 6SN7's and loving it. For the past year, I have been in a pretty intense love affair with the 12AU7, and having a blast. However, as the tube rolling addiction goes, I decided to see if the grass was greener on the other side, and got some adapters to roll some of my top tier 6SN7's. Well it turns out, this time it actually was greener on the other side. This is my current tube roll and one I will not be changing any time soon. The Tung Sol 6SN7GT VT231 BGRP, is the real deal. Everything about this tube is perfect, when paired with a Bendix 6080WB, my Atticus and Gumby. The 6SN7 is a killer tube, no doubt.

 

[Ranger Ron]

Hey fellow tube rollers! I am back to the 6SN7's and loving it. For the past year, I have been in a pretty intense love affair with the 12AU7, and having a blast. However, as the tube rolling addiction goes, I decided to see if the grass was greener on the other side, and got some adapters to roll some of my top tier 6SN7's. Well it turns out, this time it actually was greener on the other side. This is my current tube roll and one I will not be changing any time soon. The Tung Sol 6SN7GT VT231 BGRP, is the real deal. Everything about this tube is perfect, when paired with a Bendix 6080WB, my Atticus and Gumby. The 6SN7 is a killer tube, no doubt.

Yeah, you just cannot go wrong with that tungsol, it just FEELS right!

 

[Wes S]

Yeah, you just cannot go wrong with that tungsol, it just FEELS right!

Very true! I have some other top tier 6SN7's that I was meaning to roll, but I just can't bring myself to take the Tung Sol out of the amp, it just sounds so perfect.

I put a cover over the white adapter, and now it looks as good as it sounds. Long live the 6SN7!

 

[whirlwind]

Very true! I have some other top tier 6SN7's that I was meaning to roll, but I just can't bring myself to take the Tung Sol out of the amp, it just sounds so perfect.

I put a cover over the white adapter, and now it looks as good as it sounds. Long live the 6SN7!

Love both of those tubes and headphone cable you are using.
I am a sucker for clean looking set-ups and yours is just that.

 

[Ranger Ron]

Very true! I have some other top tier 6SN7's that I was meaning to roll, but I just can't bring myself to take the Tung Sol out of the amp, it just sounds so perfect.

I put a cover over the white adapter, and now it looks as good as it sounds. Long live the 6SN7!

Indeed! Looks very

Very true! I have some other top tier 6SN7's that I was meaning to roll, but I just can't bring myself to take the Tung Sol out of the amp, it just sounds so perfect.

I put a cover over the white adapter, and now it looks as good as it sounds. Long live the 6SN7!

Indeed. Very nice choice of color too. Looks great against the black. I had a BGRP in the other night, just really starting to get into a late night session, and then the white noise hit hard in the right channel. Whomp whomp. Not the way I like to end my nights. Now I'm just trying to accept the sound of a short bottle 6sn7w.

 

[Wes S]

Love both of those tubes and headphone cable you are using.
I am a sucker for clean looking set-ups and yours is just that.

Thanks man! We definitely seem to have similar taste and preferences.