[blip]

Amen BFD... Amen.

Okay... sleepy rant time:

Rap is like anything else, it is a feedback from those that consume it. A feedback that is ripped apart and processed by teams of marketers and advertising people with more skill in psychology than 99% of therapists out there. So it isn't just natural feedback but it is feedback tuned for a particular group a particular time... a particular deep need.

My suspicion is that the popularity of rap music has to do with the overall crisis of masculinity (combined with the under-appreciated crisis of feminity). These bad-boy archetypes speak to a set of old social archetypes of independence and violence. They are the Billy the Kids, the Blackbeards of our generation. Marketers know this so they tune and accentuate those aspects.

Yet, and here is the tricky part, these social archetypes must not be allowed to pursue their natural targets. In today's society the rebel's target would surely be the very infrastructure that is creating the image of the rebel itself. This cannot be allowed... So who are the people that are put up as paragons of this long lost masculinity? Rappers involved in meaningless squabbles that (esp. through their material-fetishism) become totally harmless to the existing system. Sublimation of desire is the key to modern society, IMHO.

Similarly, the degredation of women seems like a logically safe way of creating the oppositional duality which can be used to temporarily solve the crisis of masculinity. If women were not degraded, merely subjected as they have been for most of history, then they would become objects to be protected. Again this could threaten the dominate system. (modern infra-structure is based upon women as consumers and as workers.) So instead the duality is created by degredation.

The actual musicality of rap has little to do with anything. It is just a useful tool.

/rant

On a more direct note. There is a lot of good rap out there. In its purest form rap is simply poetry set to a set of beats. This gives some individuals a lot of lyrical flexibility. Similarly, musically rap can be governed by fewer rules than more conventional forms of music. This can lead to a lot of diversity and innovation in terms of production. (Note I say can, it rarely does).

Go out and pick-up a copy of Deltron 3030. It will change anyones mind who believes that all rap sounds the same or has the same themes.

Edit: Zoo: Was the title a reference to Sir-Mix-A-Lot? If so, clever... I just noticed it.

 

[titaniumx3]

I think people are getting to hung up with this issue. I take music for what it is, a source of pleasure for my ears. If I listen to a wu-tang album, I don't start dressing up like a rapper, pulling out my guns and samurai swords and then go on a killing spree, I just enjoy the music combined with some curious lyrics.

Frankly, I don't give a damn about what other people think about music, If I like something I'll listen to it, if someone recommends something, then I'll give it a try and see how it goes. Theres no music genre/style that is better then another, its all relative to the person that is listening to the music. I think the real problem here is the media and how it portrays music. Music is not reality, its not supposed to be and never will be. If the mainstream media stop brainwashing young people with that ideal, then maybe people will start to listen to music for what it is, the art of sound, not something that defines your character, or how cool you are. Its crap like this that destroys music, and gives genres like rap/hip-hop such a lame image.

Please, cut the crap and listen to music for what it really is, MUSIC!

 

[Riordan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by blip Okay... sleepy rant time: Rap is ... /rant

hey, blip... are you sure that was a RANT? sounded pretty composed, insightful, wise and knowledgable to me

 

[morphie]

It's funny how its those who have listened the less that diss the most... Dissing gangsta rap is one thing, but if you dont know the difference between a rap artist and a wannabe gangsta rapper, then know your place and keep quiet, because youre the one who is clueless imo

As for roadtonowhere, you can bet I probably listen to 90% of the rock/metal you also listen to, altho i do listen to an awful lot of hiphop/rap. But yea, I guess that makes us both oblivious to reality doesnt it

One last thing, I dont see how anyone can be discriminatory of rappers and drugs, taking into account Jimi Hendrix did concerts with an acid on each temple (just to name 1 of the very very very many rock artists and thats not exaggerated). Music industry = drugs, I think thats still to be understood by many...

 

[Rempert]

My friend at work, regarding "classic rock": "Man, how can you listen to this? Every song sound exactly the same."

My dad, regarding the Beatles: "Yellow Submarine was kind of a catchy tune, but their music screwed up a lot of people."

Rap generates the same type of criticisms, not surprisingly. It's half-truths. Rap music is often politically naive, and often socially irresponsible (not unlike rock, punk, metal, etc.). It's also an artform that is lyrically advanced way beyond anything else in the realm of music. And since it's so lyrically focused, that brings those other issues front and center. You can pretty much ignore the lyrics in a metal song and appreciate the instrumental skill, but in a rap track the lyrical rhymes and rhythm are the instrumental skill.

 

[number1sixerfan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadtonowhere08 You call labeling women bitches and hoes and men pimps positive? Now, I will say that not all rap is like this, but the stuff that makes it on the air is the stuff that influences the most people, would you not agree? I wholeheartedly support their right to produce this garbage, but geez, you'd think that people would look past this nonsense and see it for what it is: food for the ignorant-minded.

I just said that I understood that 'gangsta rap' isn't the most positive thing to do with your life, but I think we both agree that rapping is better than hustling on the streets and wasting other life. And yes it influences people, just like tv, grand theft auto, movies, and everyday life.

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadtonowhere08 I wholeheartedly support their right to produce this garbage, but geez, you'd think that people would look past this nonsense and see it for what it is: food for the ignorant-minded.

So rap is for the ignorant minded? No, it's definitely not for you. And that's ok. Rap is for those who came from the same surroundings. People from these environments often use rap to vent. I don't think they(rappers) intend for you to understand what they've been through, but if you do then its for you too. I'm not saying that it's ok for some of the rappers to do what they do, but to just say rap is garbage is simply wrong.

 

[viator122]

I think most of us can agree that there is plenty of rap/hip-hop out there that is not MTV-driven and has real artistic value, like the Roots, Black Eyed Peas, etc. If you're going to look at the sorry state of MTV-driven rap, well, you should have a look at the rock/"alternative" they're playing on MTV and ClearChannel these days. It's a crisis of popular music in general, not just rap.

However, I do think that a lot of the rap/hip-hop you hear on the radio these days is negative, violent and promotes social irresponsibility. Some would say, "Oh but they come from broken homes, they're ex-gang members and they're doing something positive now." BS. Yeah it's great that you're not killing people anymore, but because you come from a broken home the rules of society don't apply anymore? Nonsense.

 

[number1sixerfan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by viator122 "Oh but they come from broken homes, they're ex-gang members and they're doing something positive now." BS. Yeah it's great that you're not killing people anymore, but because you come from a broken home the rules of society don't apply anymore? Nonsense.

Who said that the rules don't apply anymore? I simply said that not everything with negative meaning is garbage. Is the world 100% positive? No, and if you think so then your not living in the real world. Is it sad that some of the crap that happens, happens? Yes, but nonetheless it happens. I'm sorry, but a lot of people claim rap as influential trash, and sit down and watch tv shows like jackass, etc. That's BS.

btw, this isn't an attack at you viator122, im just speakeing in general.

 

[viator122]

No offense taken.

You're right, not everything with negativity is garbage. The world can be a harsh place where people go through really tough things and events you and I might think horrible become everyday events and somewhat normalized. I think, though, that there's a difference between using your upbringing in your music and glorifying prostitution, drug abuse, violence, etc. There's a lot of rap that does not do this. Some rap, however, really sends a poor message IMO and I think that's tough to deny.

 

[EyeAmEye]

Rap as an entire genre is the bottom of the barrel. Pure and simple, it allows, more than any other musical styling, the least talented individuals to become stars. Which is rather unfortunate for the small percentage of rap/hip-hop artists who have lyrical and musical talent, because they are the ones forced to the bottom of the pile as the trash gets pushed, fed, and recycled.

I am at work and only a few minutes ago heard someone blasting their car radio. It was some awful rap song that sampled "O Fortuna". Worst use of one of the most famous songs in history. They should ban hip-hop from sampling classic songs, they just ruin them.

 

[jpr703]

I once heard someone say that Rap is to Music like Ebonics is to Language.

 

[morphie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by EyeAmEye Rap as an entire genre is the bottom of the barrel. Pure and simple, it allows, more than any other musical styling, the least talented individuals to become stars. Which is rather unfortunate for the small percentage of rap/hip-hop artists who have lyrical and musical talent, because they are the ones forced to the bottom of the pile as the trash gets pushed, fed, and recycled. I am at work and only a few minutes ago heard someone blasting their car radio. It was some awful rap song that sampled "O Fortuna". Worst use of one of the most famous songs in history. They should ban hip-hop from sampling classic songs, they just ruin them.

Least talented individuals? Do you even know the hours of work these guys put in their mixes and lyrics? Thats seriously one of the dumbest post ive seen on these forums. Wether you like the music or not is your opinion, but to say that rappers are not talented while being clueless as to how hard they work, is just preposterous. You need to be more open minded.

 

[number1sixerfan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by viator122 No offense taken. You're right, not everything with negativity is garbage. The world can be a harsh place where people go through really tough things and events you and I might think horrible become everyday events and somewhat normalized. I think, though, that there's a difference between using your upbringing in your music and glorifying prostitution, drug abuse, violence, etc. There's a lot of rap that does not do this. Some rap, however, really sends a poor message IMO and I think that's tough to deny.

And i agree that at times, rap music can be overly negative.

 

[roadtonowhere08]

Quote:

Originally Posted by number1sixerfan I just said that I understood that 'gangsta rap' isn't the most positive thing to do with your life, but I think we both agree that rapping is better than hustling on the streets and wasting other life. And yes it influences people, just like tv, grand theft auto, movies, and everyday life. So rap is for the ignorant minded? No, it's definitely not for you. And that's ok. Rap is for those who came from the same surroundings. People from these environments often use rap to vent. I don't think they(rappers) intend for you to understand what they've been through, but if you do then its for you too. I'm not saying that it's ok for some of the rappers to do what they do, but to just say rap is garbage is simply wrong.

I was referring to the stuff on the airwaves, as it was an extension of what was said before in the post. LOL, the last thread about this pretty much went the same way as this one. I will say that anyone who likes rap has the right to listen to it all day long, just as anyone who likes death metal, violent movies, and GTA. Some people take it a little too seriously (just look at the way some people mimic the style of rap and pop stars). I will never understand the appeal of rap (beleive me, I have heard plenty of it at work), and I'm sure some will never understand the appeal of other genres of music. For that I say, to each their own.

 

[morphie]

hey i like rap death metal violent movies and GTA... I do also understand the appeal of every genre of music. The rest i dont call music. xD