[Koss02]

CEL dont worry he completely skipped my reply where I pointed out he was arguing with the wrong poster, and then backed up my claims by explaining I have worked with literally dozens of different monitors.  
This is your typical "defend my purchase" kind of arguing, as he is quoting reviews from online sites that you cannot guarantee have not been paid reviews.  I never trust any review, even from long established sites such as computer audiophile or sound on sound as you have no idea if the reviewer is getting kickbacks or the site is getting sponsorship or has advertising deals.  Also some of the comments made in the reviews are almost amusing, the reviewer can hear frequencies even the manufacturer doesn't claim. 
On top of that I never tell people what to buy, just what to try, and what sort of thing to consider when shopping, so maybe I am biased

Please don't mischaracterize my opinion that the Inclines are the best 2.0 speakers on the market with "defending my purchase".

As I stated before, the Inclines are the best 2.0 speakers on the market. This thread asked for recommendations, I provided mine

 

[cel4145]

CEL dont worry he completely skipped my reply where I pointed out he was arguing with the wrong poster, and then backed up my claims by explaining I have worked with literally dozens of different monitors.  
This is your typical "defend my purchase" kind of arguing, as he is quoting reviews from online sites that you cannot guarantee have not been paid reviews.  I never trust any review, even from long established sites such as computer audiophile or sound on sound as you have no idea if the reviewer is getting kickbacks or the site is getting sponsorship or has advertising deals.  Also some of the comments made in the reviews are almost amusing, the reviewer can hear frequencies even the manufacturer doesn't claim. 

Yep. Some people are here just to hype, and are not interested in actually discussing and trying to figure out what some of the best speakers are. As I said repeatedly, I don't doubt that the DT Inclines probably sound very good. But the "best on the market" type rhetoric is typically used to feel good about one's purchase. Not to mention that it completely ignores individual subjective tastes. I have no doubt we could take what are generally considered the top speakers in this $500 class, put 100 people in a room testing them, and we'd have trouble getting a clear winner from a very large majority.

Plus, when talking about the DT Inclines, it's notable that all the Incline fans in this thread completely ignored my point that those speakers are going to be rather finicky about placement and setup because of the bipolar design. For many setups, a direct radiating nearfield monitor will work much better. Any recommendation of the Inclines should caution people on that, just like recommendations of the DT bi-polar floorstanding speaker series.

On top of that I never tell people what to buy, just what to try, and what sort of thing to consider when shopping, so maybe I am biased

I respect that opinion. I don't personally think it's a problem if people say that they liked something the best or that a speaker is popularly reviewed and would be a good buy. But insistence on "best on the market?" That's just naive.

BTW: Prior to hearing the JBL LSR305s, the KRK Rokit 6 were my favorite studio monitor that one can buy and hear locally. I think it's good to recommend the Rokit series because they are often easy to demo at Guitar Centers here in the US.

 

[cel4145]

You drew a parallel between the bass radiator your bluetooth speaker has and the one listed on the Def. Tech lnclines. Then claimed the existence of one doesn't result in frequency reproduction below 100hz, implying the existence of a bass radiator on the Inclines does not result in reproduction below 100hz. (Can you follow your own logic?)

Straw man argument. That's no implication that the DTs can't reproduce below 100hz; just that the presence of a passive radiator doesn't guarantee very low bass extension.

This is tiring. Welcome to my ignore list

 

[Tablix]

The KRK's have their downside also, as they are not really suitable for mixing/mastering as they are pretty warm and can result in thin and bass-light recordings when transferring to more Hi-Fi speakers.  I use them as a comparison when working on my ADAM's, and tbh I prefer them for casual listening as they dont give any fatigue even with 5+hours of listening.
 
I respect you have an opinion Koss, but you also need to consider you are forming your opinion from a narrow field, considering you mention only 2 or 3 other speakers.   Best in market means they surpass everything else, on every level.... thats just not the case.  If you had said "best I have heard" you would get no animosity or people trying to debunk your claims.

 

[cel4145]

The KRK's have their downside also, as they are not really suitable for mixing/mastering as they are pretty warm and can result in thin and bass-light recordings when transferring to more Hi-Fi speakers.  I use them as a comparison when working on my ADAM's, and tbh I prefer them for casual listening as they dont give any fatigue even with 5+hours of listening.

That makes sense. I don't do mixing and mastering, so I liked them for pleasure listening.

 

[RonaldDumsfeld]

New product alert!! Take a look at the specs for the Eve SC203.
 
http://www.eve-audio.com/index.php?page=SC203
 
KMR have them for £345 the set. That's about $525 or E450 at current exchange rates.
 
Small desktop speakers with quality written all over them. They are genuine actives (4 amps, one for each driver) but operate in a master/slave fashion. Seems odd at first but it has a real advantage for home users. You don't need a separate analogue volume control. Not only that you can connect them directly via optical S/PDIF or USB. So you might not even need an audio interface either! They don;t look so expensive now do they? Sub out too....
 
60Hz min and 95dB max ain't gonna turn your desk into a nightclub but it's pretty decent for nearfield listening and they don't take up much space and don't need you to spend extra on wedge to get the best listening angle.
 
I haven't heard them yet but I do have a pair of SC204 and a TS107 which I;m delighted with so far.
 
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar14/articles/eve-sc204-ts107.htm

 

[radosuaf]

They don;t look so expensive now do they?

No, for 3" woofers they DO seem to be expensive .

 

[Tablix]

I suspect they are designed to work in conjunction with a sub, which would further add to the cost, 60hz is hardly any bass at all. Normally I would look at something going as low as 45hz range before I think about not using a sub, even then its not thumping bass. From EVE's own tech speak "

And for optimal connectivity, the SC203 houses three inputs – analog RCA, digital optical and USB – which will allow you to conveniently connect a wide range of sources. Furthermore, a volume controlled subwoofer output lets you connect an additional subwoofer (TS107 und TS108) to the master speaker and create a powerful 2.1 system. A DIP switch located at the speaker's back panel allows you to select the SC203's to work as "satellites" from 80Hz and upwards, or as a full range units.

" If you already own a sub perhaps they could be worth a look if space is an issue.  Sadly I have not had the chance to play around with any EVE speakers.
 
Another thing that puts me off is the mesh covers for the drivers, while I am sure they took distortion into consideration its something I never like.

 

[enkidu]

Plus, when talking about the DT Inclines, it's notable that all the Incline fans in this thread completely ignored my point that those speakers are going to be rather finicky about placement and setup because of the bipolar design. For many setups, a direct radiating nearfield monitor will work much better. Any recommendation of the Inclines should caution people on that, just like recommendations of the DT bi-polar floorstanding speaker series.
I respect that opinion. I don't personally think it's a problem if people say that they liked something the best or that a speaker is popularly reviewed and would be a good buy. But insistence on "best on the market?" That's just naive.

Agree on all points. Didn't answer the question about setup because I don't know much about it and you guys were getting so, uhm, animated that I figured that more fat didn't need throwing in the fire.

To answer the question:
 
Imaging in my system with the Inclines set back about 17" and 30" apart, toed in to point directly at me works really well. Moving around between the speakers doesn't seem to change the coloration that much, but then again, I'm not blessed with golden ears. Did take delivery of a ProSub800 this week and will be setting up with some sound-test software (first time!) to see how the current setup reproduces vs with the sub etc. etc. Will post measurements after the weekend of putzing around.

 

[JML]

Most of these speakers are subject to placement issues, not just the Inclines.  Any of the active pro monitors with a rear port (or similarly configured passive audiophile speakers that can be used for near field listening) probably cannot be placed close to a wall.  Even if you reduce or shelve the bass output from the speakers' control settings, there are likely to be problems.  So if your desk is near a wall, front ports are likely to be much better sounding.  The B&W MM-1 was awful near a wall, frankly.
 
And let's not forget the thread title: under $500.  Once you go from a 2.0 setup to a 2.1 the price will likely climb.

 

[cel4145]

Agree on all points. Didn't answer the question about setup because I don't know much about it and you guys were getting so, uhm, animated that I figured that more fat didn't need throwing in the fire. To answer the question:

Imaging in my system with the Inclines set back about 17" and 30" apart, toed in to point directly at me works really well. Moving around between the speakers doesn't seem to change the coloration that much, but then again, I'm not blessed with golden ears. Did take delivery of a ProSub800 this week and will be setting up with some sound-test software (first time!) to see how the current setup reproduces vs with the sub etc. etc. Will post measurements after the weekend of putzing around.

Did Def Tech provide instructions on optimal setup? I know that the biploar floorstanding speakers have to be placed out a good bit from the wall, and they need space around them in order for the bipolar design to do its magic with the expanded soundfield.

I'm sure that ProSub will be a nice addition

 

[cel4145]

Most of these speakers are subject to placement issues, not just the Inclines.  Any of the active pro monitors with a rear port (or similarly configured passive audiophile speakers that can be used for near field listening) probably cannot be placed close to a wall.  Even if you reduce or shelve the bass output from the speakers' control settings, there are likely to be problems.  So if your desk is near a wall, front ports are likely to be much better sounding.  The B&W MM-1 was awful near a wall, frankly.

The Inclines will be more finicky than most other speakers because of the rear firing full range driver.

 

[enkidu]

Got around to doing measurements. Be gentle 'cause it's my first time doing this. I downloaded and figured out, sort of, how to run REW, http://roomeqwizard.com, set up my Apogee One as a mic and did a few measurements of the Inclines through my M2U/M2u stack. Here's a graph of the response. I suspect that the Apogee One's built-in mic is poorly suited to 1k and above frequencies, which is why the graph goes all poopy above there. Using a 20-20k Hz sweep, with four passes (much to the annoyance of the SO as I figured out how to run the damn thing) this is the resultant graph. Disregarding the crap above 1k since I think the mic is more at fault here, the response from 60-1k is pretty flat. The base response doesn't really start until around 50 Hz which confirms my impressions while listening to it, although it definitely does produce sound above 45Hz or so. Any talk of 30Hz or even 40Hz is crazy talk in my opinion. But my ears tell me via the sine wave generator that 45Hz definitely does produce a sound and above 50Hz it gets pretty robust with 60Hz and above being pretty normal volume.
 

 

[sia rezaei]

  Got around to doing measurements. Be gentle 'cause it's my first time doing this. I downloaded and figured out, sort of, how to run REW, http://roomeqwizard.com, set up my Apogee One as a mic and did a few measurements of the Inclines through my M2U/M2u stack. Here's a graph of the response. I suspect that the Apogee One's built-in mic is poorly suited to 1k and above frequencies, which is why the graph goes all poopy above there. Using a 20-20k Hz sweep, with four passes (much to the annoyance of the SO as I figured out how to run the damn thing) this is the resultant graph. Disregarding the crap above 1k since I think the mic is more at fault here, the response from 60-1k is pretty flat. The base response doesn't really start until around 50 Hz which confirms my impressions while listening to it, although it definitely does produce sound above 45Hz or so. Any talk of 30Hz or even 40Hz is crazy talk in my opinion. But my ears tell me via the sine wave generator that 45Hz definitely does produce a sound and above 50Hz it gets pretty robust with 60Hz and above being pretty normal volume.
 

 
Interesting measurement. How was everything placed? Distance of the speaker and microphone to reflective surfaces (walls, floor, ceiling)? Distance of speaker to microphone?
Also did you measure one speaker or both were making sound at the same time?

 

[enkidu]

   
Interesting measurement. How was everything placed? Distance of the speaker and microphone to reflective surfaces (walls, floor, ceiling)? Distance of speaker to microphone?
Also did you measure one speaker or both were making sound at the same time?

Thanks! Both speakers were driven since I don't know how to configure REW to only drive one at a time, the microphone was level in height with the middle of the speakers at the edge of the desk; the speakers are set back 14" and 30" apart, toed in to point directly at the mic. Room is very large being in one corner of a loft with 2 story high ceilings and an open living + dining + working area. Desk is set against window but there's a good 18" of distance between them and the back of the speakers.
 
BTW, just ordered a calibrated mic from parts-express so I'll be redoing the measurements with it when it comes. I'll be comparing the last run and also against the setup with a ProSub800 underneath. The ProSub makes a huge difference with the low end as is to be expected.