[nudd]

One thing that slightly bothers me is that there was no A6 or A8 when the kickstarter was announced. I woukd like to at least have the option to go from a U6 to an A6 too.

 

[ayao]

 
That's why to me the best compromise would be:
1) Offer a full refund
2) Offer an equivalent priced U series trade
3) Allow Ambient 12 backers who doesn't mind waiting to keep their pledges
 
Or
 
4) Allow U8 series backers a free upgrade to U12 which i know economically isn't a smart thing to do.

Another alternative is for them to lower the MSRP of the U10/12 (which would then lower the upgrade cost [they stuck with 40% off]), since the U12 is priced $700 higher than the U8. This would widen the price difference between the U12 and A12, but I don't think too many A-series owners would be too annoyed since they got to choose all the extra options (e.g. wood, artwork).
Or maybe they can stick with the original MSRP but give the U-series backers a bigger discount for upgrading, for the delays 

 

 

[KaminKevCrew]

One thing that slightly bothers me is that there was no A6 or A8 when the kickstarter was announced. I woukd like to at least have the option to go from a U6 to an A6 too.

Yeah. I'm pretty sure that's what I tried when I made up my mind on which set to order. The U6 is very, very good sounding though, and with the double flanges that 1964 brought to the meet, I think that they were also some of the best fitting universals I've ever tried... Unfortunately, they would still fall out, so I still needed a custom...

 

[hrq12345]

Are you guys sure that U12 will be the universal model of A12? I asked a local 1964 dealer and he said they may not sound same.

 

[moses1258]

Just got my A12's in.  Will try and post some pictures later.
 
Any word on when the adjustable Adel modules will be available?
 
The A12's are just detail monsters.  Great mid's so I'm understanding lyrics that I really did not catch for 10 years or more!
 
My niggle might be that they have a touch more bass then I'd like.  I'm hoping with the adjustable module I can dial down the bass a bit.  I'm listening to Mother Love Bone out of my Iphone and "Stargazer" sounds incredible.  I consider most Apple products straight out of the heaphone jack to be a bit "thin".  Not so with the 12's.  Sounds very muscular...drums and bass are presented big and full.

 

[eldss]

I just don't get the notion that some people wanted the top of the line since the beginning of the campaign and that's why they went with the U8. Had there been a U12 they would have backed it. It doesn't make sense and it's just an excuse to wanting a free upgrade themselves. Why didn't they backed the A12 and got the universal version as several backers did? People really say it would be reasonable to get the free upgrade now. Wonder if they imagine that businesses are there to give free upgrades to new techs all the time. They exist to make profits and survive in a competitive environment. Not only are 1964's prices more accessible than the competition, they gave deep discounts and people still expect free stuff now.

 

[ayao]

Are you guys sure that U12 will be the universal model of A12? I asked a local 1964 dealer and he said they may not sound same.

If you look at the comments section in the July 11 update, you can see one of the creator's replies indicating that the U12 will have the same specs as the A12. Going by this, I think we can assume that they have the same drivers. It's not certain whether or not they'll sound exactly the same though (since no one has heard both).

 

[Ike1985]

  Yeah. I'm pretty sure that's what I tried when I made up my mind on which set to order. The U6 is very, very good sounding though, and with the double flanges that 1964 brought to the meet, I think that they were also some of the best fitting universals I've ever tried... Unfortunately, they would still fall out, so I still needed a custom...

 
Exactly my feeling as well, I listen to a lot of metal so the words are often hard to understand, but now I can clearly understand way more words than I ever heard before.  Amazed.  I have an A12 BTW.

 

[Cagin]

I admit I'm a bit baffled as to how some users like Ike got the A12 by placing order way after KS campaign ended while they are still persons waiting for their pledged U or ambient series. Is there a momentary shortage in the U series component?
Also, what was the price of the A12 for those that placed an order recently? Was it still $1600 late bird price?

 

[ericp10]

  I guess no one will ever be happy.  I guess I just see it as a fairness issue.  I wouldn't have had a problem if they upgraded them to the u8 which was the natural choice.  But when they choose such a high price point to upgrade people too it really bothered me.  I felt the natural thing would be to charge people a small upgrade fee rather than one at a giant price point (almost twice what they paid).  If it was even 200 bucks I wouldn't have a problem, it's just 400 is almost twice the cost that we paid for something they get a free upgrade too.
 
I'm not normally one to jump on the bandwagon with getting upset.  I just feel a little cheated is all.  I'm sure you can understand that at least.

 
 
I don't understand why you feel cheated. There were different price points based on when people jumped aboard the kickstarter program. In addition, I don't think the U-12 even existed at the time (unless I've overlooked something on the initial page). So the top-of-the-line in a universal fit earphone was the Ambient 12 (based on the descriptions of the products). That IEM is no more at this point. Now the company is offering a U-12 as its replacement. I think it's fair. You are comparing listed retail prices to listed prices at the beginning of the kickstarter campaign. Lots could have changed over that period of time in cost development, etc. to actually bring these products into development. So what could have been the projected MSRP then doesn't mean that's what it is now. I think you're mixing apples and oranges. This is a fair concession for those who aren't getting what they initially ordered with the kickstarter program. You are getting what you ordered, so I don't understand your issue.

 

[Ike1985]

I admit I'm a bit baffled as to how some users like Ike got the A12 by placing order way after KS campaign ended while they are still persons waiting for their pledged U or ambient series. Is there a momentary shortage in the U series component?
Also, what was the price of the A12 for those that placed an order recently? Was it still $1600 late bird price?

 
They are different products and likely had different components, I would say you are on-target with your shortage prediction.  I wish i got mine for $1600, =P.

 

[music-meister]

I'm a U8 Backer, so I've been following everything pretty closely (and commenting on the kickstarter under a separate name there).
 
If I understand it correctly, the history of the current situation is:
 
1964 is sued by JH Audio, slowing down production of Ambient/Control models.
1964 sends out update to U-series backers in Late June, indicating a Late July shipping time frame, and emails links for orders to be finalized.
Then 1964 sends out update to Ambient/Control backers in early July, discussing their solution to get Ambient/Control backers something sooner rather than later.
The solution = Ambient/Control backers would be "upgraded" to a U-series model for free. Personally, I thought this was an excellent solution for 1964...except:
 
1964 offers Ambient 12 Backers a U12 model - with different components. Ambient 12 was a cheaper 6 bass driver 6 mid/high combo drivers, and the upgrade is for a Universal 12 4 bass / 4 mid / 4 high driver model. Graphs and charts now released by 1964 show that the U12 essentially has the same sound signature as the Custom A12. In terms of a deal, Ambient backers just hit the jackpot. A now $1600 retail IEM for $500 is a great deal.
 
U Series backers (myself included) asked for the possibility to upgrade to a U10 or U12, even for a fee. (Yes, some scream bloody murder that they should get a "free" upgrade, too. But that's just not realistic from a business perspective.)
1964 Offers U Series backers the option to upgrade to a U10 or U12 for a fee ($419 for U8 Backers), which to some is more significant than anticipated. ($959 total pledge)
1964 also states that all U Series models are delayed (again) and have a new timeframe of late August for shipping, and early-mid September to be received.
 
I think if it weren't for the additional delay (we received 3 updates indicating late-July everything would be shipped), U-series backers wouldn't be as frustrated as they currently are.
 
Given the circumstances...
Should U Series backers receive a free upgrade? No. I don't believe so.
Should U Series backers receive something additional (an extra cable, another accessory, or even the potential of a cheaper upgrade) for the additional delay? Maybe. I would see this helping customer satisfaction long term.
 
Personally, I was quite confident that a $540 U8 model would be AT LEAST as good as a comparable $500 universal IEM, if not BETTER. But to drop nearly a grand into a U12 that's new technology and relatively untested in this industry...that's a pretty big stretch. I don't think 1964 should just hand them out willy-nilly, but I would think if they really want to sell the U12 and make a profit in the long-term, they would want to get them into people's hands to review them, and kickstarter backers would be the target crowd to begin spreading the word on how good they really are. Unfortunately for 1964, some Ambient backers don't want them, and the Universal backers that do want them don't want to pay as much being asked. Sure, that's the backers problem...but at the same time, it doesn't really help 1964 in the long run.
 
All in all, I agree that people shouldn't complain without offering solutions. But the solutions being presented aren't helping the overall customer satisfaction rating at this time. And I really do want to see 1964 succeed in this kickstarter, and continue to succeed in this industry.
 
As noted above, if the U12 is going to be a long-term sale item, I would think 1964 would want to get them into the hands of musicians and others interested in high-end IEM's in order to get some more positive press. I don't think they should hand them out for free. Not at all. But if they want the U12 to be a viable product for the next few years, they would want to get some positive reviews out there as quickly as possible. And the Kickstarter crowd would be the initial target audience. And at present, 1964 has failed to interest that audience.

 

[Smurfs2010]

  I'm a U8 Backer, so I've been following everything pretty closely (and commenting on the kickstarter under a separate name there).
 
If I understand it correctly, the history of the current situation is:
 
1964 is sued by JH Audio, slowing down production of Ambient/Control models.
1964 sends out update to U-series backers in Late June, indicating a Late July shipping time frame, and emails links for orders to be finalized.
Then 1964 sends out update to Ambient/Control backers in early July, discussing their solution to get Ambient/Control backers something sooner rather than later.
The solution = Ambient/Control backers would be "upgraded" to a U-series model for free. Personally, I thought this was an excellent solution for 1964...except:
 
1964 offers Ambient 12 Backers a U12 model - with different components. Ambient 12 was a cheaper 6 bass driver 6 mid/high combo drivers, and the upgrade is for a Universal 12 4 bass / 4 mid / 4 high driver model. Graphs and charts now released by 1964 show that the U12 essentially has the same sound signature as the Custom A12. In terms of a deal, Ambient backers just hit the jackpot. A now $1600 retail IEM for $500 is a great deal.
 
U Series backers (myself included) asked for the possibility to upgrade to a U10 or U12, even for a fee. (Yes, some scream bloody murder that they should get a "free" upgrade, too. But that's just not realistic from a business perspective.)
1964 Offers U Series backers the option to upgrade to a U10 or U12 for a fee ($419 for U8 Backers), which to some is more significant than anticipated. ($959 total pledge)
1964 also states that all U Series models are delayed (again) and have a new timeframe of late August for shipping, and early-mid September to be received.
 
I think if it weren't for the additional delay (we received 3 updates indicating late-July everything would be shipped), U-series backers wouldn't be as frustrated as they currently are.
 
Given the circumstances...
Should U Series backers receive a free upgrade? No. I don't believe so.
Should U Series backers receive something additional (an extra cable, another accessory, or even the potential of a cheaper upgrade) for the additional delay? Maybe. I would see this helping customer satisfaction long term.
 
Personally, I was quite confident that a $540 U8 model would be AT LEAST as good as a comparable $500 universal IEM, if not BETTER. But to drop nearly a grand into a U12 that's new technology and relatively untested in this industry...that's a pretty big stretch. I don't think 1964 should just hand them out willy-nilly, but I would think if they really want to sell the U12 and make a profit in the long-term, they would want to get them into people's hands to review them, and kickstarter backers would be the target crowd to begin spreading the word on how good they really are. Unfortunately for 1964, some Ambient backers don't want them, and the Universal backers that do want them don't want to pay as much being asked. Sure, that's the backers problem...but at the same time, it doesn't really help 1964 in the long run.
 
All in all, I agree that people shouldn't complain without offering solutions. But the solutions being presented aren't helping the overall customer satisfaction rating at this time. And I really do want to see 1964 succeed in this kickstarter, and continue to succeed in this industry.
 
As noted above, if the U12 is going to be a long-term sale item, I would think 1964 would want to get them into the hands of musicians and others interested in high-end IEM's in order to get some more positive press. I don't think they should hand them out for free. Not at all. But if they want the U12 to be a viable product for the next few years, they would want to get some positive reviews out there as quickly as possible. And the Kickstarter crowd would be the initial target audience. And at present, 1964 has failed to interest that audience.

 
Very well said and I agree with you on everything.  I have also backed the U8 and am a little disappointed with delays but I, for some reason, want to see 1964 succeed.  They make a great product at a great price - thoroughly enjoying my V8.

 

[eldss]

Very well said and I agree with you on everything.  I have also backed the U8 and am a little disappointed with delays but I, for some reason, want to see 1964 succeed.  They make a great product at a great price - thoroughly enjoying my V8.

Finally two constructive comments from U8 backers. Only thing I want to point out is that even at the retail price, the U12 still appears to be a much better deal than other comparable IEMS from other manufacturers.

 

[digitalzed]

So it's now been well over 24 hours since the announcement on Kickstarter about being able to upgrade and still the page isn't live.