[Ike1985]

That will almost certainly never happen. Other companies don't want it. That's not saying anything bad about it, just that it's not something other companies want because they have their own ideas about how to go forward. Talk to the heads of ciem companies. You'll get a polite but definite no, at least, that's what I've gotten.

But we may we 1964 going forward with adel in the future, we'll have to see.

I do not see any ciem companies doing anything unique or ground breaking as far as tech goes. It has become a race to see how many drivers can be crammed into a shell. The only differences are driver quantity, aesthetics and sound sig. I do believe Ambrose is on to something with this tech. I have no doubt that we will see other manufacturers trying similar tech themselves if not eventually licsencing Adel. I'm certain if there were no patents to stifle Innovation, they'd all be rolling out their own versions right now and we'd see some improvements as the different ideas are implemented. I don't see any amazing new tech other than Adel in this market, 3d printing is starting to be used more as well as 3d scanning for impressions, but that's not functionally different than any current ciem.

 

[AudioBear]

It's probably a bit off topic and I know nothing about patents anyway, but I am not so sure patents are or are not stifling innovation.   As you point out, the whole market is about stuffing more transducers in a shell (maybe made by 3D printing)--and producing pricier and pricier CIEMs.  That is not much in the way of innovation but it could be argued that patented innovations stimulate other manufacturers to try to come up with a different but equally compelling innovation rather than stifle innovation.  The patent stifles copy-cats not innovators.
 
This having been said, JH Audio has filed a patent infringement suit against 1964Ears on something related to their multiple driver patents.

 

[Smurfs2010]

Originally Posted by AudioBear /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
 
The patent stifles copy-cats not innovators.
 
 

 
I am sure we can debate this all day long but I believe both are true.  It prevents copy-cats and stifles innovation.

 

[Uncle E1]

  It's probably a bit off topic and I know nothing about patents anyway, but I am not so sure patents are or are not stifling innovation.   As you point out, the whole market is about stuffing more transducers in a shell (maybe made by 3D printing)--and producing pricier and pricier CIEMs.  That is not much in the way of innovation but it could be argued that patented innovations stimulate other manufacturers to try to come up with a different but equally compelling innovation rather than stifle innovation.  The patent stifles copy-cats not innovators.
 
This having been said, JH Audio has filed a patent infringement suit against 1964Ears on something related to their multiple driver patents.

 
Looking at the filed documents, may be the reason why 1964 Ears withdrew the popular V6 model.

 

[Ike1985]

It's probably a bit off topic and I know nothing about patents anyway, but I am not so sure patents are or are not stifling innovation.   As you point out, the whole market is about stuffing more transducers in a shell (maybe made by 3D printing)--and producing pricier and pricier CIEMs.  That is not much in the way of innovation but it could be argued that patented innovations stimulate other manufacturers to try to come up with a different but equally compelling innovation rather than stifle innovation.  The patent stifles copy-cats not innovators.

This having been said, JH Audio has filed a patent infringement suit against 1964Ears on something related to their multiple driver patents.

Patents waste time and money unnecessarily and cause markets to misallocate resources to litigation instead of innovation. It is an established fact now, the data is out there. They stifle innovation.

 

[Ike1985]

Looking at the filed documents, may be the reason why 1964 Ears withdrew the popular V6 model.

The jh patent was a ludicrous attempt by Jh to use the state to harm their competitor instead of providing a better product or service than 1964 ears, Jh used the state and its enforcers to threaten 1964 ears and deprive the community of an excellent product. Jj basically tried to patent the idea of drivers in an acrylic shell, an absurd proposition. Innovators have plenty of protection from the market with regard to their inventions-the first mover advantage and the prestige of being the creator of a new product is he natural advantage innovators enjoy. To use the guns of the state to prevent others from competing against you is unnatural un-free market and anti capitalist behavior. If 1964 would have continued to produce their v6 against the patent, eventually men with guns would have shown up to make sure they stop. This is has nothing to do with free markets, people should be allowed to produce whatever they want as producing a product harms no one-even copy catting. All of this can be dealt with trough time stamping, yelp and the Internet. the market can handle all this quite easily.

 

[gikigill]

The jh patent was a ludicrous attempt by Jh to use the state to harm their competitor instead of providing a better product or service than 1964 ears, Jh used the state and its enforcers to threaten 1964 ears and deprive the community of an excellent product. Jj basically tried to patent the idea of drivers in an acrylic shell, an absurd proposition. Innovators have plenty of protection from the market with regard to their inventions-the first mover advantage and the prestige of being the creator of a new product is he natural advantage innovators enjoy. To use the guns of the state to prevent others from competing against you is unnatural un-free market and anti capitalist behavior. If 1964 would have continued to produce their v6 against the patent, eventually men with guns would have shown up to make sure they stop. This is has nothing to do with free markets, people should be allowed to produce whatever they want as producing a product harms no one-even copy catting. All of this can be dealt with trough time stamping, yelp and the Internet. the market can handle all this quite easily.

 
JH Audio was stiffed badly by UE when it wanted to launch an active crossover amp for the JH3A combo.
 
Guess who founded UE? Jerry himself.
 
For a little more context:
 
 
 
"Here is the latest update on the JH3A… 
 
Due to a 6 year-pending patent application that was filed during Jerry's ownership of Ultimate Ears and finally granted this past January, we have changed the format of the 3A Amplifier.  This has cost the project an intense amount of time and for that we apologize.  
 
Please see below for the changes that have been made: 
 

1. We have removed the active crossover from the amp and put it back into the earpiece.  This change allows the earpieces to be used without being married to the amp.  We have had many customers request this flexibility and we are happy to be able to offer it.
   1. (An 8-Pin to 3.5 mm male mini adapter is required.  With the adaptor, the JH16 may be used as a normal passive crossover earpiece and can be plugged into any source a typical JH16 would. There is no impact to the audio quality for either application.  We will offer the adaptor, with the price being determined next week.)   
   1. The 3A still has 3 internal amps (low, mid and high) driving the passive crossover components in the earpiece.  This allows us to EQ and delay each amp for the particular component in order to correct EQ and phase.
2.  The 3A can run in either 2 amp mode (mids and highs) or 3 amp mode (lows, mids and highs) by switching between the B/M switch.
   1. In 2-way mode, the low end response is perfectly flat. In 3-way mode the bass response is +3db to +14db depending on the bass amp volume control setting.
3. Amp stage is totally silent
4. The analog input has been increased so the gain is closer to gain of the the digital input.

 ​

We feel the changes that had to be made have improved the JH3A and we think that you as the consumer you will be pleased with its improved versatility. We appreciate everyone that has held on while this product has been in the development stage and we apologize for the long delay in this reaching you, the early believers in the project. The design of the JH3A is complete and it is an amazing product.  We will be showing the completed JH3A this week at RMAF and look forward to everyones feedback.  JH3A amps will start to ship the week after RMAF as soon as Jerry returns to the lab. 
 
Thank you,
 
JHAudio"
 
 
Still wondering why Jerry Harvey wants to make sure he doesn't get ripped off again?

 

[gikigill]

Some more info:
 
"Ultimate Ears contracted Westone, a Colorado Springs manufacturer of custom-fit earpieces, to create the shell casings for the musicians' commissions.Westone also began assembling the monitors.
 
Profits jumped in 1998 when Harvey introduced the fifth-generation model the UE-5. By 2000, Ultimate Ears was becoming a fixture among rock artists, and Harvey's pieces were used by the Rolling Stones, Faith Hill, Enrique Iglesias, and the Red Hot Chili Peppers. Near the end of 2001 Ultimate Ears had added some 200 artists including Cirque du Soleil, the Late Show with David Letterman, and various megachurches.
 
In 2001, however, the relationship with Ultimate Ears and Westone began to fall apart. While on tour Harvey heard from sources that Westone was claiming ownership to his custom designs, as well as trying to set up a separate European distribution. An attorney informed Mindy that Westone owned all the trademarks and patents associated with Ultimate Ears, and that Harvey had no patent protection. Harvey decided to retake control of the business. However, while he had designed the interior circuitry of the monitors, he didn't know how to make the acrylic shells. Westone also had all the rock star ear impressions."
 
 
Jerry Harvey probably has forgotten more about customs than what UE and Westone know.
 
A very good reason I have never bought or will ever buy anything from them.

 

[Ike1985]

JH Audio was stiffed badly by UE when it wanted to launch an active crossover amp for the JH3A combo.

Guess who founded UE? Jerry himself.

For a little more context:



"Here is the latest update on the JH3A… 
 
Due to a 6 year-pending patent application that was filed during Jerry's ownership of Ultimate Ears and finally granted this past January, we have changed the format of the 3A Amplifier.  This has cost the project an intense amount of time and for that we apologize.  
 
Please see below for the changes that have been made: 
 

• We have removed the active crossover from the amp and put it back into the earpiece.  This change allows the earpieces to be used without being married to the amp.  We have had many customers request this flexibility and we are happy to be able to offer it.
  • (An 8-Pin to 3.5 mm male mini adapter is required.  With the adaptor, the JH16 may be used as a normal passive crossover earpiece and can be plugged into any source a typical JH16 would. There is no impact to the audio quality for either application.  We will offer the adaptor, with the price being determined next week.)   
  • The 3A still has 3 internal amps (low, mid and high) driving the passive crossover components in the earpiece.  This allows us to EQ and delay each amp for the particular component in order to correct EQ and phase.
•  The 3A can run in either 2 amp mode (mids and highs) or 3 amp mode (lows, mids and highs) by switching between the B/M switch.
  • In 2-way mode, the low end response is perfectly flat. In 3-way mode the bass response is +3db to +14db depending on the bass amp volume control setting.
• Amp stage is totally silent
• The analog input has been increased so the gain is closer to gain of the the digital input.

 ​

We feel the changes that had to be made have improved the JH3A and we think that you as the consumer you will be pleased with its improved versatility. We appreciate everyone that has held on while this product has been in the development stage and we apologize for the long delay in this reaching you, the early believers in the project. The design of the JH3A is complete and it is an amazing product.  We will be showing the completed JH3A this week at RMAF and look forward to everyones feedback.  JH3A amps will start to ship the week after RMAF as soon as Jerry returns to the lab. 
 
Thank you,
 
JHAudio"
 
 
Still wondering why Jerry Harvey wants to make sure he doesn't get ripped off again?

So patents even stifle their filers, lols.

 

[Deviltooth]

So patents even stifle their filers, lols.

The winners are the lawyers.  That's a shame because there's no such thing as a moral or honest lawyer.  If you want to meet people who are inherently corrupt and manipulative look to lawyers and politicians.

 

[gikigill]

You got it wrong, Jerry isn't interested in being ripped off his work again, hence the patent.

Once bitten, twice shy.

 

[Ike1985]

There is a critical shortage of a12 adel pics online, post some up guys! it'll make my wait easier. =P

 

[Ike1985]

I had to have my impressions done 3 times, totaling probably $200 when you factor in time and gas money, food expenses for the trip, etc.  I cannot stress enough to make sure you find an audiologist who has done CIEMs before, present them with the 1964 impressions sheet and MAKE SURE they read it.  After speaking with my first audiologist after his second attempt which was rejected by 1964 ears, i discovered he just "looked at" the sheet but didn't read it.  I would highly suggest calling the audiologist, asking to speak with the actual person who does the impressions and discuss what you need and if they can do it for you.  Otherwie you may get there and be asking someone with no experience with CIEMs to do it perfectly.  I eventually found a good audiologist-thanks to 1964 ears recommendations.  Good luck everybody.

 

[vitaliy belo]

That will almost certainly never happen. Other companies don't want it. That's not saying anything bad about it, just that it's not something other companies want because they have their own ideas about how to go forward. Talk to the heads of ciem companies. You'll get a polite but definite no, at least, that's what I've gotten.

You're right. Result of too much self pride.....IMHO

 

[vitaliy belo]

Looking at the filed documents, may be the reason why 1964 Ears withdrew the popular V6 model.

Sorry, its just a coincidance. V6 was pulled because of low sales