☯️ Cavalli Audio's Liquid Carbon... a $599 Cavalli amp???
Aug 24, 2015 at 6:34 AM Post #3,061 of 5,932
HD598 is a very well rounded headphones. I have them and I loved them for their comfort and sound for what I payed for. Just don't listen to HD800 though. I just use the 598s SE and haven't tried making it balanced but I really like it's sound signature. I can't put my finger on its exact Sig but it's like a senn Sig that's more exciting? Will also try it se thru the LC.
I have a set of hd598's. Even though I have hd800 and lcd2f phones I listen to the 598's a lot. They are detailed, have good bass and do not sound like the othrs. They are 4 wire so I had Surf Cables make me a balanced cable for them. And while waiting for my LC I bought a Master 11 which the 598's sound great through.
 
Aug 24, 2015 at 7:31 AM Post #3,062 of 5,932
Gonna go off topic for a sec but I remember reading a post a couple pages back about the LC being a current mode amp, is it really? :O didn't remember reading about that but would be awesome if it were true! Itching to get the LC to run balanced with my LCD-X. No doubt it shall be sublime *__*



Yes, the Liquid Carbon uses current feed back topology instead of voltage feedback topology. One of the main reasons I was interested in this amp in the first place. :)



An opamp is a particular circuit topology that was defined many years decades ago. There were, in fact, tube opamps. There are a small handful of topologies that are defined as opamps with a given, more or less well understood behavior.

Every chip opamp contains many devices on the silicon which make up the opamp circuit. Different chips have different quantities and types of devices depending on the specifics of the design, such as speed, current output, input device types, etc.

Since an opamp is a defined circuit topology made out of a collection of components, it's possible to make an opamp from discrete components. Most opamps are voltage feedback types (so far as I know), but some are current feedback circuits. The Carbon uses our design for a current feedback opamp amplifier.

Most chip opamps have very high open loop gain, somewhere near 120db (1 million). To reduce this gain down to 1X for a headphone amp requires a huge amount of global feedback (i.e., 120db). For this reason, I believe, many chip opamps sound ok for audio amps, but not usually really really good.

The Carbon discrete opamps have much lower open loop gain and, hence, the amount of feedback required to achieve unity gain is not so high. Hence, MHO, a better sound.

Just FYI, so far as I know nearly every solid state power amplifier that has ever been sold for the last 5 decades has been a discrete voltage feedback opamp.

See here for a good article on this. Note section 1, The Generic Amplifier Configuration

http://www.douglas-self.com/ampins/dipa/dipa.htm
 
Aug 24, 2015 at 10:28 AM Post #3,063 of 5,932
Does anyone know if utilizing current feedback topology will increase the response this amp has to a quality power cable or power source? I usually wouldn't go to extremes with something in this price category, but this amp (which I've also pre-ordered) seems to be in a category of its own, considering the design aspects and such.
 
Aug 24, 2015 at 11:14 AM Post #3,064 of 5,932
Does anyone know if utilizing current feedback topology will increase the response this amp has to a quality power cable or power source? I usually wouldn't go to extremes with something in this price category, but this amp (which I've also pre-ordered) seems to be in a category of its own, considering the design aspects and such.

 
If someone wants to buy me an expensive power cable, I'll be happy to test and report back.  Assuming that won't happen, I don't think anyone will know the answer to this until they hit the streets and folks start testing it.  
 
Dr. Cavalli has tactfully chosen not to take a side on this issue other than to not provide a power cable with the unit so we can use the one of our choice.  
 
And just so you know, any real discussion on this outside of the sound science forum is a good way to get our posts removed.
 
Aug 24, 2015 at 1:36 PM Post #3,065 of 5,932
I actually do believe that the good doctor did reply to this topic.  I remember Alex talking many people's wallets off of the bridge in regards to power cords and power conditioners.  He instead encouraged that money instead be focused on getting headphones setup for balanced listening and buying quality interconnects.
 
I don't need the Doctor to chime in for me to know he's a believer in power cords.  Just look at the first meets where he introduced the Liquid Carbon.  Look at those photos and you'll see the LC being fed power with a fire hose.  But keep in mind, he works in a world where his prior entry level amp is $3000.  A $500 power cable doesn't seem outrageous when it's only 1/6 the price of the amp.
 
I think its nice that he's trying to temper the masses as to where and when to save a few bucks....
 
Aug 24, 2015 at 5:40 PM Post #3,066 of 5,932
Alright, some new facts for folks to chew on:
 
I finally have a second DAC that has both SE and Balanced outputs.  The first was my vintage Theta Basic II and now I have the Schiit Gungnir Multibit (GMB or Gumby).  When I tested the Theta through both the SE and Balanced inputs on the LC, I heard no difference.  This led me to believe that the phase splitter was pretty bad ass.
 
Last night I tested the Gumby in the same way and, lo and behold, there was a clear difference.  The mids are noticeably thinner and the soundstage is slightly smaller when using it via SE.  The overall volume stays the same -- for instance the bass sounds exactly the same but everything else thins out. 
 
"Oh no," you may be thinking, "I thought you said SE DAC's were fine and now they're not!"  No worries, there's good news there.  
 
I've said it many times and I will continue to say it: a well-implemented SE DAC can sound better than a poorly implemented balanced DAC.  I've been doing a lot of testing between the DAC-19 (SE) and the GMB (Balanced).  I'll be posting more impressions in a few days (waiting for a new cable to come in), but the reason this is taking so long is because they're so close in sound.  The SE DAC-19 is very competitive with the balanced GMB and sounds better than the SE GMB.  This would seem to back up my assertion above.
 
The moral of the story:  phase splitter isn't as almighty as I made it out to be, but it's still good.  IMO, making sure your DAC is well implemented should be a higher priority than making sure it's balanced.
 
EDIT - For great justice!
 
Aug 24, 2015 at 6:16 PM Post #3,067 of 5,932
You didn't specify which setting sounded thin on the GUMBY, but I'm assuming it was the SE...
Nice impressions...you're a hard worker!
 
Aug 24, 2015 at 6:18 PM Post #3,068 of 5,932
You didn't specify which setting sounded thin on the GUMBY, but I'm assuming it was the SE...
Nice impressions...you're a hard worker!

 
You're right, sorry!  Edited that in there.
 
And thanks, tho I don't know how much I'd call it "work".  :-D
 
Aug 24, 2015 at 6:19 PM Post #3,069 of 5,932
    "The SE DAC-19 is very competitive with the balanced GMB and sounds better than the SE GMB."  

That line right there got my impatience to read your review spiking wildly into the red zone!  You, sir, can throw a mean tease
bigsmile_face.gif

 
 

 
Aug 24, 2015 at 6:26 PM Post #3,070 of 5,932
  That line right there got my impatience to read your review spiking wildly into the red zone!  You, sir, can throw a mean tease
bigsmile_face.gif

 
 
 

 
Aww, Sensei @warrenpchi would be so proud of me right now!  
biggrin.gif

 
Aug 24, 2015 at 6:30 PM Post #3,071 of 5,932
@Stillhart
 
Just read your preview. Great read. It's making me believe that this amp is going to be perfect for my Fostex TH600. I've been trying to decide whether to sell that or the JVC HP-DX1000, and if it pairs with the Fostex as well as it seems (rolled off highs = perfect for it), I might have to try the DX1000. Agh! Gotta let one go since I bought the Liquid Carbon.
 
Aug 24, 2015 at 6:31 PM Post #3,072 of 5,932
  @Stillhart
 
Just read your preview. Great read. It's making me believe that this amp is going to be perfect for my Fostex TH600. I've been trying to decide whether to sell that or the JVC HP-DX1000, and if it pairs with the Fostex as well as it seems (rolled off highs = perfect for it), I might have to try the DX1000. Agh! Gotta let one go since I bought the Liquid Carbon.

 
For the record, I don't think the highs are rolled off anymore.  I think the other amp I was using was unusually bright.  It just seemed that way in comparison.  
 
Maybe I should update my preview a bit...
 
Aug 24, 2015 at 6:56 PM Post #3,073 of 5,932
 
The moral of the story:  phase splitter isn't as almighty as I made it out to be, but it's still good.  IMO, making sure your DAC is well implemented should be a higher priority than making sure it's balanced.


 
Man this DAC thing is getting complicated. Just when I think balancing is the key, other factors step in to decide which DACs are better (kinda like choosing headphones). I'm already broke thanks to trying different headphones. I'll be homeless trying to A/B that many DACs!
 
No thanks to Alex and the LC and now Stillhart clarifying stuff. Imagine where we'd be right now if the LC never existed.
 
Aug 24, 2015 at 6:59 PM Post #3,074 of 5,932

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