[Ham Sandwich]

   
I would disagree with that reasoning.  I think it's likely that a lot of folks are waiting to see the final unit, see some reviews, etc. before pulling the trigger.  I suspect that after the first run hits the streets, there will be a spike in demand for a second run.

 
It does take some faith to commit to buying an amp at this price or above without having heard it first.  I have the faith in Cavalli's ears and design principles.  But I also understand why many others would choose to stay on the fence till they can hear it, even if that means paying more.
 
I do hope it goes to a second run and continues to be available.  If I like it I want to be able to recommend it to others and have it available for them to actually be able to buy.

 

[aqsw]

  I agree with Stillhart. There are many who will not purchase a product that's unproven in the wild. Cavalli has a couple of prototypes out there but no production versions exist. But personally I think now would not be the time to go by that logic since we may not ever see a second run. And if we do see a second run Alex has said he may need to raise the prices to offset the additional production costs

I totally agree with this.
 
Cavalli is a fantastic company, but like any company, they do not want to see idle hands. I believe that people are waiting for the revues.
When they hear them and the first 500 are sold, then will have have to pay the premium if they still want them. (I'm guessing $899.00) for the next 500.
 
The next one is the Cavalli Crack. No audiophile can resist!!

 

[Barry S]

The pre-sale has been wildly successful for a $600 prototype amp that very few people have heard yet. If the amp is successful, I'm sure there will be future production runs--Cavalli is a business. My guess is the price won't go up much, if at all. It makes sense to have products at the $600-$700 price point that bring in a steady stream of revenue.

 

[aqsw]

The pre-sale has been wildly successful for a $600 prototype amp that very few people have heard yet. If the amp is successful, I'm sure there will be future production runs--Cavalli is a business. My guess is the price won't go up much, if at all. It makes sense to have products at the $600-$700 price point that bring in a steady stream of revenue.

So I guessing you are not in yet?!

Start saving that extra 300 right now.

 

[Dannek]

  The pre-sale has been wildly successful for a $600 prototype amp that very few people have heard yet. If the amp is successful, I'm sure there will be future production runs--Cavalli is a business. My guess is the price won't go up much, if at all. It makes sense to have products at the $600-$700 price point that bring in a steady stream of revenue.

All we have to go on at this point is the information that Alex Cavalli posted in the thread announcing the start of the pre-sale of the Liquid Carbon.
 
As quoted..- "If there are future runs, we will probably have to adjust price to better reflect cost.  It's possible that this could be in the range of $799, although this decision is reserved for later. Right now the focus will be on getting this run out on time. 

".
 
So nothing is set in stone, but either way it is really nice that Alex Cavalli is offering members of Head-Fi a special price on the first run of this amp.  I've read many posts in the CanJam thread and the Spring Hill meet thread from experienced Head-Fi members detailing how nice the pre production Liquid Carbon sounds in various configurations. Judging by the reviews of his other offerings, I felt comfortable ordering the Liquid Carbon as my first amp in this price range.  Time will tell...

 

[Barry S]

So I guessing you are not in yet?!

Start saving that extra 300 right now.

Your guesses are only 50% wrong now. :rolleyes:

The free market is remarkably good at valuing products. If confidence is high that the price will be 800-900 within a few months, the limited stock should sell quickly. If I was confident, I'd buy 20 units now and resell them once the price goes up. Let's say, the price only goes up $200. If I sold them for $700, I'd be making $100 each and the future buyer would be getting a $100 discount. Who wouldn't be happy on either side of that deal? So far, I don't see that level of confidence.

I believe the Liquid Carbon has the potential to become the most profitable Cavalli amp, but it has to be priced right. From the early video, I think the target was $500 and a bit of a cushion was built in by pricing them at $600. The enclosure is being kept simple, so that goes a long way in controlling the product cost. If future batches don't rise at all in price, some of you will be disappointed and that's understandable. Part of the encouragement to buy is the idea of a limited product an/or rising price.

So there's already some pressure to raise the price, but I don't think it has to be too much to still make the "500" feel like they got in on the ground floor. It wouldn't surprise me to see a modest increase of $50-$100. Much more and I think it starts to seriously cut into the sales volume.

 

[Serenitty]

Your guesses are only 50% wrong now.

The free market is remarkably good at valuing products. If confidence is high that the price will be 800-900 within a few months, the limited stock should sell quickly. If I was confident, I'd buy 20 units now and resell them once the price goes up. Let's say, the price only goes up $200. If I sold them for $700, I'd be making $100 each and the future buyer would be getting a $100 discount. Who wouldn't be happy on either side of that deal? So far, I don't see that level of confidence.

I believe the Liquid Carbon has the potential to become the most profitable Cavalli amp, but it has to be priced right. From the early video, I think the target was $500 and a bit of a cushion was built in by pricing them at $600. The enclosure is being kept simple, so that goes a long way in controlling the product cost. If future batches don't rise at all in price, some of you will be disappointed and that's understandable. Part of the encouragement to buy is the idea of a limited product an/or rising price.

So there's already some pressure to raise the price, but I don't think it has to be too much to still make the "500" feel like they got in on the ground floor. It wouldn't surprise me to see a modest increase of $50-$100. Much more and I think it starts to seriously cut into the sales volume.

Sales volume in the future will likely be the key though.  Now we've got a big slug of orders all at once and Cavalli can order the components in bulk, likely driving the prices down a lot, especially on the enclosure.  If orders in the future trickle in, then component purchases will be much smaller, which will drive the price up.

 

[ButtUglyJeff]

Your guesses are only 50% wrong now.

The free market is remarkably good at valuing products. If confidence is high that the price will be 800-900 within a few months, the limited stock should sell quickly. If I was confident, I'd buy 20 units now and resell them once the price goes up. Let's say, the price only goes up $200. If I sold them for $700, I'd be making $100 each and the future buyer would be getting a $100 discount. Who wouldn't be happy on either side of that deal? So far, I don't see that level of confidence.

I believe the Liquid Carbon has the potential to become the most profitable Cavalli amp, but it has to be priced right. From the early video, I think the target was $500 and a bit of a cushion was built in by pricing them at $600. The enclosure is being kept simple, so that goes a long way in controlling the product cost. If future batches don't rise at all in price, some of you will be disappointed and that's understandable. Part of the encouragement to buy is the idea of a limited product an/or rising price.

So there's already some pressure to raise the price, but I don't think it has to be too much to still make the "500" feel like they got in on the ground floor. It wouldn't surprise me to see a modest increase of $50-$100. Much more and I think it starts to seriously cut into the sales volume.

 
If Alex thought there was that potential, he would have limited purchase quantities to one ore two.  He said he wasn't going to do that, when the limit was suggested in this thread....
 
Your $100 prediction seems spot on to me too.

 

[doctorjazz]

As you get closer and/or over that $1000 price mark, I think you change from a unit that has general audiophile appeal (there's an oxymoron if I ever heard one), to a real boutique item, much more limited in appeal or sales. I think $500 cutoff or so keeps you in impulse range, $500-1,000 in the "I'll go for it but it hurts" range, with a drop in sales, and more than $1000 is true obsessive territory (and, of course, then there it the $2k, 3K stratosphere range, but that really must be limited, especially if it's for headphone only gear). My totally unscientific, unresearched, totally unsubstantiated impressions, of course.

 

[YtseJamer]

  Well darko, when you're right you're right, the LCD-3F is sonically a nice update from the LCD-3C. Very nice bass and the mids are nicely open and detailed. Right now I'm ranking the headphones on the Ether as follows
Ether/LCD-3F (in a dog fight)
LCD-X

 
Hello DigitalFreak,
 
I have a couple of questions for you :
 

• What do you think of the synergy between the LCD-X and the Liquid Carbon ?
• What are the main differences between the LCD-X and the Ether with the Liquid Carbon ?

 
Thanks in advance!

 

[runeight]

Hey gents, I do get regular emails asking if the Carbon has balanced out when driven SE at the RCA jacks. I know we've discussed this a few times in the thread, but for anyone coming in late, the Carbon has a phase splitter at the RCA inputs which drives the amp in full balanced mode through to the headphones.

 

[Poimandres]

Dr Cavalli,
Is there any chance you would add a balanced kobiconn input for the LC?

 

[runeight]

Well, there's is really no room left on the back for another jack and with two XLR connectors it is always possible to make an adaptor. I also need to give you a little more information about using this type of connector and I'll try to get to that tomorrow.

 

[Poimandres]

Thank you.

 

[DigitalFreak]

   
Hello DigitalFreak,
 
I have a couple of questions for you :
 

• What do you think of the synergy between the LCD-X and the Liquid Carbon ?
• What are the main differences between the LCD-X and the Ether with the Liquid Carbon ?

 
Thanks in advance!

Hi Darko, synergy wise, the Carbon has owned all my other amps with the X and the Ether.
The X is a slightly more warmer and bassier headphone when compared to the Ether. I like the Xs bass more then the Ethers with Trance and Techno (its a fun sounding bass) but the Ether has by far the better mids. Also the Ethers highs seems to sound a bit more neutral while the Xs sound a slight step more energetic. What I've noticed is that tonality on both headphones is improved with the Carbon, more so with the Ether then the X, as well as being cleaner, think crisper note presentation. Also, the Carbon controls the Xs bass by far better then say any of my Garage1217 amps or my Play It By Ear. With the PIBE amp,and my other amps for that matter, I found there was a little to much mid bass bloom which resulted in leeching into the lower mids. With the Carbon there was no leeching when compared against the other amps. Darko, my honest opinion is you'll like what you hear. The X shines very nicely with the Carbon and I highly recommend you get a balanced cable for it if you don't have one already. I'm not one for cable propaganda but I have to admit all the headphones I've paired to the Carbon with a balanced cable does sound better. Its not a night and day difference mind you but it is better. That's my honest opinion, if you decide to try the Carbon hopefully you'll argee with my observations.
 
Just for everyones information, as of the end if this week I will be packing up all the headphones as well as the Carbon and sending them back to Cavalli Audio. Its going to be a long wait for me once this little amp is gone. In the meantime I'm going to concentrate on building a new desktop rig around the Liquid Carbon. Maybe I shouldn't be saying this because the deal isn't finalized yet but I think I may have scored myself a new DAC. If things work out within the next few weeks I should be the proud owner of a new Chord 2Cute DAC. I'm pretty excited about the idea because thus far everyone who has heard the Carbon with a Chord DAC has praised the pairing. I've also made another decision, in a few months I intend to buy an Ether and use it as my reference benchmark headphone for review. I was sceptical of the hype I had read involving the pairing of the Carbon and the Ether. After a week of listening I've become a believer.