[ejong7]

 
I am sure there is an entire thread dedicated to USB cables. 
This  - frankly  - is getting a bit old.

Is it time to create a separate cable thread for the Carbon? We already did with the DACs. But then again this place will become bare so no. Don't leave.

 

[SuperU]

  @Pirakaphile, I personally think it is ignorance* that is bad for the pocketbook. The waveform responsible for '0' and '1' do not need to be perfect to ensure perfect reproduction. Think of it as square waves with a very sharp drop-off. That is the entire point of using a binary 'true-false' type system. Binary inherently means that there is only two options available, either 0 or 1. No room for a 0.9 or 1.1. I would be interested in reading a verified source suggesting that there is a discrepancy in the 'quality' of the 0 and 1 being transferred as I have not seen such an article. If the receiving circuit can identify the waveform, the reception of the signal will be, in the end analysis, perfect, regardless if the square waves look different (aka if the voltage difference is variable but still above the threshold). if the receiver misidentifies the digital data (aka digital data was lost), the loss is total and final. This means digital signals exhibit no functional degradation at all up to a certain threshold, but once the 'quality' falls beneath that threshold, there is no signal at all. this means that digital cables meeting the standard of compliance will either work or obviously not work with glaring flaws. There is no in-between. A USB compliant standard ensures that all certified USB cables meet specifications and conform to tested standards for performance. The only physical quality of the cable itself (other being defective) that can affect the performance of a USB cable would be length. for people who think about digital cables differently, their logic would then also apply to a multitude of other digital cables such as HDMI cables.
 

Spoiler: *It is relatively easy to speak scientifically without relating to real-life usage or actual science:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7uykB6wGG4

 
Sources:
http://www.howtogeek.com/112636/htg-explains-do-you-really-need-expensive-cables/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logic_level

Spoiler: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB#Connector_properties

The host includes 15 kΩ pull-down resistors on each data line. When no device is connected, this pulls both data lines low into the so-called "single-ended zero" state (SE0 in the USB documentation), and indicates a reset or disconnected connection.

A USB device pulls one of the data lines high with a 1.5 kΩ resistor. This overpowers one of the pull-down resistors in the host and leaves the data lines in an idle state called "J". For USB 1.x, the choice of data line indicates of what signal rates the device is capable; full-bandwidth devices pull D+ high, while low-bandwidth devices pull D− high. The "k" state is just the opposite polarity to the "j" state.

USB data is transmitted by toggling the data lines between the J state and the opposite K state. USB encodes data using the NRZI line coding; a 0 bit is transmitted by toggling the data lines from J to K or vice versa, while a 1 bit is transmitted by leaving the data lines as-is. To ensure a minimum density of signal transitions remains in the bitstream, USB uses bit stuffing; an extra 0 bit is inserted into the data stream after any appearance of six consecutive 1 bits. Seven consecutive received 1 bits is always an error. USB 3.0 has introduced additional data transmission encodings.

A USB packet begins with an 8-bit synchronization sequence '00000001'. That is, after the initial idle state J, the data lines toggle KJKJKJKK. The final 1 bit (repeated K state) marks the end of the sync pattern and the beginning of the USB frame. For high bandwidth USB, the packet begins with a 32-bit synchronization sequence.

A USB packet's end, called EOP (end-of-packet), is indicated by the transmitter driving 2 bit times of SE0 (D+ and D− both below max) and 1 bit time of J state. After this, the transmitter ceases to drive the D+/D− lines and the aforementioned pull up resistors hold it in the J (idle) state. Sometimes skew due to hubs can add as much as one bit time before the SE0 of the end of packet. This extra bit can also result in a "bit stuff violation" if the six bits before it in the CRC are '1's. This bit should be ignored by receiver.

A USB bus is reset using a prolonged (10 to 20 milliseconds) SE0 signal.

USB 2.0 devices use a special protocol during reset, called "chirping", to negotiate the high bandwidth mode with the host/hub. A device that is HS capable first connects as an FS device (D+ pulled high), but upon receiving a USB RESET (both D+ and D− driven LOW by host for 10 to 20 ms) it pulls the D− line high, known as chirp K. This indicates to the host that the device is high bandwidth. If the host/hub is also HS capable, it chirps (returns alternating J and K states on D− and D+ lines) letting the device know that the hub operates at high bandwidth. The device has to receive at least three sets of KJ chirps before it changes to high bandwidth terminations and begins high bandwidth signaling. Because USB 3.0 uses wiring separate and additional to that used by USB 2.0 and USB 1.x, such bandwidth negotiation is not required.

Clock tolerance is 480.00 Mbit/s ±500 ppm, 12.000 Mbit/s ±2500 ppm, 1.50 Mbit/s ±15000 ppm.

Though high bandwidth devices are commonly referred to as "USB 2.0" and advertised as "up to 480 Mbit/s", not all USB 2.0 devices are high bandwidth. The USB-IF certifies devices and provides licenses to use special marketing logos for either "basic bandwidth" (low and full) or high bandwidth after passing a compliance test and paying a licensing fee. All devices are tested according to the latest specification, so recently compliant low bandwidth devices are also 2.0 devices.

USB 3 uses tinned copper stranded AWG-28 cables with 90±7 Ω impedance for its high-speed differential pairs and linear feedback shift registerand 8b/10b encoding sent with a voltage of 1 V nominal with a 100 mV receiver threshold; the receiver uses equalization.^{[size=11.1999998092651px][127]} SSC clock and300 ppm precision is used. Packet headers are protected with CRC-16, while data payload is protected with CRC-32.^{[size=11.1999998092651px][128][/size]} Power up to 3.6 W may be used. One unit load in superspeed mode is equal to 150 mA.^{[size=11.1999998092651px][128][/size]}[/size]

​

Example of a Negative Acknowledge packet transmitted by USB 1.1 full-speed device when there is no more data to read. It consists of the following fields: clock synchronization byte, type of packet and end of packet. Data packets would have more information between the type of packet and end of packet.

 

http://www.edn.com/design/consumer/4376143/1/Fundamentals-of-USB-Audio
http://www.audioholics.com/audio-video-cables/top-ten-signs-an-audio-cable-vendor-is-selling-you-snake-oil
http://www.audioholics.com/audio-video-cables/truth-about-expensive-hdmi-cables
http://www3.eng.cam.ac.uk/DesignOffice/mdp/electric_web/Digital/DIGI_14.html
 
regardless of how I feel about the subject, I recommend simply doing your own research or trying it for yourself rather than relying on other people's opinions (including my own) without reading up on background sources. not looking to start a debate or argument. (though if someone wants to privately discuss, feel free to PM me).
 
edit: ymmv, feel free to disagree (though preferably with an independent source)

+100

 

[Stillhart]

 
I am sure there is an entire thread dedicated to USB cables. 
This  - frankly  - is getting a bit old.

 
Agreed, my apologies for letting myself get drawn into the discussion.

 

[Poimandres]

In the end it is all about what makes us feel better, is it not? I tried really hard to make myself believe that I perceived a difference between my Ultraviolet usb cable and the cable that came with my device.

I'll let you know if I can hear any differences in a quality power cable versus the one that comes with my pc power supply.

 

[money4me247]

I am sure there is an entire thread dedicated to USB cables. 
This  - frankly  - is getting a bit old.

there are multiple entire threads dedicated on USB cables, and yes, I agree cable debates are indeed quite old. that is why I was reluctant to response to the original post as I do not want this thread to turn into a cable debate. I just do not believe that the specific posting really matches with the current understanding of how usb works, so I just wanted to provide some background information for those who are interested. I am open to critical feedback as well if you found an error within my post. I think that is the best way for the community to learn and grow. (feel free to PM me privately anytime)
 
I do want to state again that I have no desire to engage in any debate on whether an individual hears a difference with different cables or not. I realize my personal experiences with cables is a personal subjective experience, and that others may have different experiences. If you hear a difference with your cables, I believe you and if you like your cables, I am totally cool and respect your opinions. I hope that my own personal experiences not hearing a difference is cool and respected as well. The posting was simply to clear up an factual explanation error for the benefit of everyone (including cable enthusiasts). It was NOT meant to prove or disprove whether an individual hears a difference in cables! I also am not trying to take this thread off-topic from Dr. C's new amplifier. 
 
There will be a lot of people posting a lot of very different personal experiences with different cables and components paired with Liquid Carbon, and I look forward to reading all of it. cheers!

 

[Insidious Meme]

I am sure there is an entire thread dedicated to USB cables. 
This  - frankly  - is getting a bit old.

You can come back in say.. 3 months when the first ones are delivered.

 

[joeexp]

You can come back in say.. 3 months when the first ones are delivered.

I hope the good Dr.  keeps to his time schedule.  
My order # is early 400. 
 
3 months and counting.

 

[doctorjazz]

It's it still 3 months? Seems like years have passed since the order!

 

[Barry S]

It's it still 3 months? Seems like years have passed since the order!

I'm not sure I'd count on any date until we get an update from Alex Cavalli. He mentioned that 200 units was the minimum he needed to go forward with the LC, but it's not clear if he's placed the parts orders or is waiting to hit a magic number of orders. Then there are the usual issues with ramping up production.

 

[bugula]

  My power cord arrived yesterday.  I didn't want to pay big bucks for one, so I chose an ebay seller:
 

 
Now I can stare at it for 3 months or so.....lol
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/221681366463?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

nice choice.
 
i've become fond of ELA for my mains, interconnects, headphone cables, and now IEM cables.

 

[zaintachik]

nice choice.
 
i've become fond of ELA for my mains, interconnects, headphone cables, and now IEM cables.

 


How's the performance, if you dont mind me asking. They do look extremely good value. Initially for my balanced cable i was thinking of Moon Audio but they're just crazy expensive. I doubt my ears can discern any difference.

 

[bugula]

 

  nice choice.

 
i've become fond of ELA for my mains, interconnects, headphone cables, and now IEM cables.

 


How's the performance, if you dont mind me asking. They do look extremely good value. Initially for my balanced cable i was thinking of Moon Audio but they're just crazy expensive. I doubt my ears can discern any difference.

honestly i'm not a cable guy - i can hear differences in some headphone cables but that's about it so i didn't want to break the bank but wanted something that was sturdier than what i'd find at amazon. so i'm incredibly thrilled with what i've bought and i'll continue to buy but other than "they don't make my stuff sound like poo," i can't give you a better sonic review.

 

[GavThomson]

hi,
 
Does anyone know how the LC compares to some of the other more 'transportable' amps like the bcl or graham slee solo or even the hugos amp section?  I bought this because i was mulling the LAu and it seemed like a little less overkill but now i'm thinking there is already a good marketplace for amps in this region!?  I know it's not been released yet so reviews are few and far between and we are all in hype mode but a few comparisons on similar scale and price amps would be good.
 
cheers 

 

[jjacq]

I was wondering if any of you guys can give me some input. Would you buy a Schiit Mjolnir or this...? I will be using an LCD-X which works good with a Mjolnir and probably with this too.

 

[Stillhart]

  I was wondering if any of you guys can give me some input. Would you buy a Schiit Mjolnir or this...? I will be using an LCD-X which works good with a Mjolnir and probably with this too.

 
This is maybe not the best place for an unbiased answer.  Obviously I'd buy the LC, and I have. The LCD-X is relatively easy to drive and they both have plenty of power for the task.  Schiit has a reputation for making gear that sounds good for the money; Cavalli has a reputation for making gear that sounds good.