[gsferrari]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoRedwings19 R u selling your sr-60's I need some before christmas for my sisters present.

You are getting me thinking here

Spoiling me with the HP1...and with an MS2 sitting in Erie...the SR-60 is waaaay out of its league. However this is one of the headphones I purchased after really falling in love. Raul (rsaavedra) brought his pair to a HeadFi meet and it was hard seeing them go. Then matt (also a headfi member but out of the loop now) gave me his pair for a LONG time and then I decided I had to have a pair.

Check your PM

 

[GoRedwings19]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wmcmanus I'm glad you said this because it is something I should have said. I suspect you are right because what I didn't like about the Blockhead (great amp with other headphones) and RS-1 (great headphones from what many people say) is the way they worked (or, rather, didn't work) together. IMO the RS-1's need to be tamed in the upper frequencies, and the Blockhead is about as fast and furious as a solid state amp can possibly get, and thus serves to further emphasize (rather than deemphasize) the upper registers of the RS-1's. I'm sure I'd like the RS-1's a lot more with a less expensive, but better matched, tube amp. I'm thinking micro ZOTL or RKV, or (I'm sure) the EMP Anniv. I'm with you here too! The HP-2 tend to do better with quick solid state amps. I love them with the Sugden Headmaster but am ambivalent when I mate them with ZOTL or RKV because they've got all of the smoothness in the world (so they don't need tubes to tame them like the RS-1's do, IMO) but the HP-2's need quickness to give them punch. With most tube amps, the HP-2's tend to be "pleasant" to listen to but not alive enough to keep me interested. The same could be said (in an even more pronounced way) about the HD600's. Of course these are only my views based on my tastes, but this is what system matching is all about. And, come to think of it, I've never heard the HD600's sound better than they do with the Blockhead (a balanced pair of HD600's of course). This makes total sense to me because the HD600 tend to be a little sluggish (in my view and only in relation to other headphones, so no flames please), so the Blockhead's lightning speed and power brings out the quickness and weight that they lack with many other amps (particularly laid back tube amps such as the RKV which the HD600's are terrible with IMO). It's a shame you can't make it to a meet. Even if you could arrange a mini meet with an R10 owner, then you could bring your EMP Anniv. and do the comparisons yourself. There really is no substitute for what your ears tell you.

The strange thing is the senn 600's sound quite good with the emp anniv. No wait it sounds brill. I don't know why it just does. I can't explain it can you? Theoretically it should be like the hp=2 sound but it isn't.

 

[mbratrud]

GoRedwings19..you might find, as I did, that the Valhallas are not the best match with the R-10s. To me one significant difference between the R-10s and the HD650s using the Maestro was that the R-10s were voiced farther back in the hall. This voicing gave the R-10s the perspective of a larger and more coherent stage as well as giving the impression that the harmonic envelope had more space to unfold.

To me, part of the magic of the R-10s that I did not find in other headphones - and particularly the upper end Grados - was this ability to feel the harmoic envelope. The Grados are voiced, at least with all the amps I heard them with, very close. Harmonics need to open and decay correctly to sound "real".

Now the problem with the Valhallas was that they tend to move the voicing much closer - in a speaker based system, where you actually have space for harmonic bloom this is fine. But with the R-10s I did not care for this "projection" of voice that the Valhallas lent (even though I love the Vallhallas in the rest of my system).

I don't mean to ramble here but I will note that the Virtual Dynamics Master Series cable was preferable to the Valhallas IMHO for the R-10.

Further, I think I am in line with Dolifant about the upper end Grados. They are exciting and precussive. The have detail and in some cases musicality AND the have great attack and immediacy. But in the end I found them bothersome because they were voiced too close to the ear. You never really heard the harmonic develop and decay..I would point out that to many people, the harmoinc attack/expansion/decay are a coloration....but I believe a correct one. The R-10s also give the sense of fuller body than the HD650s or the Grados (again IMHO).

From what you are saying you will love the R-10s.....But I would not knee jerk into the Valhallas as they are expensive (and I say this as someone who uses Valhallas IC and speaker cables across the board in my 2 channel system). You might try different ICs you can borrow to find system synergy.

 

[Hirsch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wmcmanus The HP-2 tend to do better with quick solid state amps. I love them with the Sugden Headmaster but am ambivalent when I mate them with ZOTL or RKV because they've got all of the smoothness in the world (so they don't need tubes to tame them like the RS-1's do, IMO) but the HP-2's need quickness to give them punch. With most tube amps, the HP-2's tend to be "pleasant" to listen to but not alive enough to keep me interested.

The HP-1000/ZOTL combo is a great combo, but you need the right tubes in the ZOTL. It may be the best I've heard the HP-1000 ever sound. For that amp, I'd take the HP-1000 over the R10. EAR HP4 is another amp that does the HP-1000 extremely well (although I had better luck with the R10/EAR combo than with the R10/ZOTL). I'll take the HP-1000 with either of those over any solid state amp I've heard.

The EMP anniversary, or even the stock EMP which I've heard a lot more, is a very nice match for the R10. The Anniversary Edition has better detail and extension than the stock unit (based on a limited audition). Still, neither has the speed and impact of the higher-end Singlepower amps, IMO.

 

[gsferrari]

I second the HP1/2 and Berning MicroZOTL combo. I am sure rsaavedra also feels strongly this way because this is his dream setup

That Berning MicroZOTL is a fine amp when used appropriately. I would love to buy one but they are hard to find

 

[GoRedwings19]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbratrud GoRedwings19..you might find, as I did, that the Valhallas are not the best match with the R-10s. To me one significant difference between the R-10s and the HD650s using the Maestro was that the R-10s were voiced farther back in the hall. This voicing gave the R-10s the perspective of a larger and more coherent stage as well as giving the impression that the harmonic envelope had more space to unfold. To me, part of the magic of the R-10s that I did not find in other headphones - and particularly the upper end Grados - was this ability to feel the harmoic envelope. The Grados are voiced, at least with all the amps I heard them with, very close. Harmonics need to open and decay correctly to sound "real". Now the problem with the Valhallas was that they tend to move the voicing much closer - in a speaker based system, where you actually have space for harmonic bloom this is fine. But with the R-10s I did not care for this "projection" of voice that the Valhallas lent (even though I love the Vallhallas in the rest of my system). I don't mean to ramble here but I will note that the Virtual Dynamics Master Series cable was preferable to the Valhallas IMHO for the R-10. Further, I think I am in line with Dolifant about the upper end Grados. They are exciting and precussive. The have detail and in some cases musicality AND the have great attack and immediacy. But in the end I found them bothersome because they were voiced too close to the ear. You never really heard the harmonic develop and decay..I would point out that to many people, the harmoinc attack/expansion/decay are a coloration....but I believe a correct one. The R-10s also give the sense of fuller body than the HD650s or the Grados (again IMHO). From what you are saying you will love the R-10s.....But I would not knee jerk into the Valhallas as they are expensive (and I say this as someone who uses Valhallas IC and speaker cables across the board in my 2 channel system). You might try different ICs you can borrow to find system synergy.

Hi and thanks for the advice. The valhallas were sold to me by a friend who owns a hi fi shop. He gets 40% discount so that's all I paid for them. I am sure to take a good listen to the r-10's. I am one of those people who like "sit" near or on the soundstage. While most people would find this irritating and annoying, I don't. I love it. At this moment I am using the grado hp-2's with a grace amp. This gives the hp-2's a kick up the backside and now I face a huge dilemma. I want to simplify my headphone setup now. I need to lose some cans. I have already sold off the hd650's, next is the senn hd600's+cardas cable. Even though all the grado's are closely match I love them all to bits. While they may not be hi fi, they get my foot tapping. Hopefully with the arrival of the r-10's +ML combo, I am in for a treat. I was just asking questions as I was worried if I bought a similar sonic headphones like the senns hd600. I like the senns don't get me wrong but after a while I find because of its presentation I can't be bothered to listening to music. While the grado's keep my attention. Yeah sure at times the rs-1 catches me out but overall it's my fave grado. Although the hp-2 is seriously changing that opinion.

People have recommended the qualia to me. But I am not interested. There is nowhere in the UK to try thrm out and even if there was I probably wouldn't bother. I am more into musicality rather than outright detail and hi fi. Okay I am the first to admit to buy a ML combo just for headphone use is nuts but in my circumstances it works out great. Anyway if I remember correctly some certain headfier (who shall remain anonymous) recommended this combo for me to try out.......

And even if I didn't buy this combo I probably would of tried a wadia 861se. But I am seriously in this headfiers debt for showing me musicality+refinement from this combo. Anyway what improvements does the upgrade to 30.6 bring

I have the purcell upsampler I might try connecting the dac to it and see what happens for a laff.

 

[Jorg]

I know a guy in Novosibirsk that owns two R10's one is 1990 year production and the other is 2002 year production. He says that there is a large difference between them, especially in the bass department. He says that the 2002 year model is far superior to the 1990 year model.

Can't check by myself because it's pretty far from Moscow. But I hope you guys can do it at a meet.

 

[WulfmanJax]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jorg I know a guy in Novosibirsk that owns two R10's one is 1990 year production and the other is 2002 year production. He says that there is a large difference between them, especially in the bass department. He says that the 2002 year model is far superior to the 1990 year model.

When you consider that R10s are handmade it's quite obvious they all aren't going to be EXACTLY the same. It's the same way with handmade instruments (and even mass produced instruments in most cases). But with something like the R10s, that are so carefully crafted, i'm quite sure that some models will no doubt sound better than others.

 

[Wmcmanus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hirsch The HP-1000/ZOTL combo is a great combo, but you need the right tubes in the ZOTL. It may be the best I've heard the HP-1000 ever sound. For that amp, I'd take the HP-1000 over the R10. EAR HP4 is another amp that does the HP-1000 extremely well (although I had better luck with the R10/EAR combo than with the R10/ZOTL). I'll take the HP-1000 with either of those over any solid state amp I've heard.

Hirsch, I remember reading your reviews and other detailed comments about the HP-1000/ZOTL combo, and also remember nodding along with you as I read, in full agreement. Maybe my memory of the HP-2/ZOTL combo is getting rusty because I haven't cranked up that rig in a long time. You also make a good point about tube rolling, which is something I never did with the ZOTL, so I've never heard it in it's full glory like you have. I'll have to give it another listen.

 

[GoRedwings19]

Thanks everyone. You have put my mind to rest specially Wmcmanus and Hirsch. I can't wait to get my hands on the r-10's.

At the moment I haven't tuberolled the emp anniv. I am just using stock tubes. I should go look for some tubes sometime.

 

[Wmcmanus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoRedwings19 Thanks everyone. You have put my mind to rest specially Wmcmanus and Hirsch. I can't wait to get my hands on the r-10's.

Ya, as I think about what Hirsch said about the HP-1000/ZOTL combo being excellent with the right tubes (to your preference) it made me shudder to think that I may have inadvertantly set up a "straw man" argument that the HP-2's generally work better for me with solid state amps rather than tube amps. No doubt, for different listeners, there may be certain headphones that, to their ears at least, mate better with solid state (or tube) amps, but I'd hate to leave you with such a broad, sweeping generalization about the HP-2's. Since they are such a neutral headphone, they may work well with just about any amp, depending on what flavor you desire. Sometimes as I write, I find myself stretching to make a point. In one of my above posts, it happened to be about system matching, and I should have stuck with the RS-1 example that I started with.

 

[Nik]

If there is a word that do not means nothing in our posts, this word is: BETTER. After rivers of words and posts, we do not understand that each of us have his own tastes? Yes! We kow this, but this is not so interesting (IMO), just to exchange opinions between headphones lovers. Good! But we are not ready yet to finally show a objective "headphone-paper" with the most agreed caracteristics-definition of each of the TOP cans we know so well?

This is the question: if a external interested buyer that do not know anythings about headphones, ask to us (not to me or Sovkiller or markl, or Wayne or Hirsch...) but TO US for a right description of the first 3 or 4 phones... do yo think we are able to do that kind of statment (headphones-paper)?

If not, I think that our posts and discussions are just (or still) in a hobbie level and not any more. This is not so good for the highest headphones forum in the planet !

Best!
Nicola

 

[Kurt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoRedwings19 The strange thing is the senn 600's sound quite good with the emp anniv. No wait it sounds brill.

Same here with HD650 and EMP. Odd. But in a very nice way. =o)

 

[mbratrud]

Nik...I don't know. I think we have uncovered a few characteristics about different headphones (or headphone and amplifier combinations) that might help a person if that person understood themselves and where his or her listening priorities might be.

For instance, I believe that - at least for certain charactersitics - you and I often look for different things when we listen. Yet,I know we are both looking for a very high level of sound quality. For this reason I have always found your posts to be interesting and elucidating despite the fact that we have chosen different pieces of equipment for ourselves.

I don't think we have to concur about what we find "best" - but I do think that we can agree about many things.

Without the help of Hirsch, for instance, I might have spent years muddling about with thousands of dollars worth of tubes and interconnects trying to find the right combination - God knows I did with my 2 channel system.

BUt once I saw that he and I shared similar goals in listening and he brought me to the R-10s the rest fell into place and I had my system gel much more rapidly than I ever have before - But this was thanks to HIS good ears and experience and MY understanding my own tastes and goals.

Oddly, my headphone experiences led me to selling off the Accuphase Transport and DAC seperates I had used (and loved) for so long in search of a new front end....I went through the new Levinson and Wadia gear, I tried the Purcel and your own Linn CD12 before I eventually settled on the Burmester. I never got a chance (until recently) to hear the Emmlabs and I think if I had I might have chosen bozebutton's front end too. I believe Tom is settling in with it nicely after years with the 360s.

Oddly, if it had been JUST headphone listening I would have perhaps stayed with the Levinson since the qualities I revere in the Burmester and Emmlabs gear show themselves better on 2 channel than on heahphones (of course, all in my own opinion).

 

[immtbiker]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jorg I know a guy in Novosibirsk that owns two R10's one is 1990 year production and the other is 2002 year production. He says that there is a large difference between them, especially in the bass department. He says that the 2002 year model is far superior to the 1990 year model. Can't check by myself because it's pretty far from Moscow. But I hope you guys can do it at a meet.

This is very interesting to me. I was told that the R-10 design never changed.

Although when using a special rain forest wood like Zelkovia, how much consistency can be achieved, compared to using man-made products?
But was the bass efficiency actually changed

?