Hifiman HE1000 Planar Dynamic Headphone
Jun 29, 2017 at 2:49 AM Post #9,391 of 14,670
Some have reported the HEK was driven fine from the Hugo1 and the Hugo2 has a little more juice on tap. Given that the HEK needs 0.297Vrms / 2.60mW to reach 90dB I don't see any reason why the Hugo2 wouldn't be able to drive them well. Especially since the HEK v2 is slightly more sensitive than the HEK. Power shouldn't be an issue at all, according to the numbers.

Synergy and preference will be a different conversation though.
 
Jun 29, 2017 at 6:07 AM Post #9,392 of 14,670
I believe the whole chain synergy from source to the cans effect the palate of any can. I have no doubt that Hugo 1 can power susvara he 1 whatever. The input quality will equal the output, better input better output and every can will sound better. I have just gone through this experiment with my new server player, one of the most important upgrades I have done.
So not any old dac or amp or source can make any can live up to its potential that's for sure.
 
Jul 14, 2017 at 10:11 AM Post #9,395 of 14,670
Good review of the Lazuli Reference cable.
The only down side is that I'm shortly to publish my Toxic Silver Widow review (as soon as I have enough quiet time), and I was going to use much the same descriptions as you've used :disappointed:. So now I'm going to have to think up some new descriptions. However, whilst the SW is firmly in your 3rd category, I do think there are one or two differences that may make the comparison more interesting.

I noted your disappointment of the stock V2 cable and its rubbery feel. I actually rather like this "substance-over-style" aspect. It delivers more than suggested by first impressions becuase it's very light, doesn't kink at all and some have said it sounds substantially better than the V1 version. Compare that to the stock "style-over-substance" Utopia cable, which looks more expensive becuase it's thick, heavy and inflexible, yet owners still report significant SQ improvements on switching to aftermarket cables.

Regarding the entry point into the HEK V2, In my case there is no lateral (side to side) movement, so a good tight(ish) fit and no danger of the cable slipping out as some V1 owners have reported, But there is a tiny movement along the plug length, which can exacerbate microphonics because it can click when tapping the cable near the entry point. But I don't hear that in normal use - only when tapping the cable. My SW plugs (which are substantially bigger and heavier) have exactly the same minor problem.
 
Jul 14, 2017 at 10:26 AM Post #9,396 of 14,670
A legitimate high end cable discussion must also include double helix cables, prion 4 pure occ silver type 6 litz, 18 awg i think. to note on the corporation side nordost valhalla series, but they don't make headphone cables at this level, usb and such....
 
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Jul 14, 2017 at 10:46 AM Post #9,397 of 14,670
The best deal for any amount of money is a 16-wire 3N silver solid core braided cable from gogocutepuppy@gmail.com (ELA Audio). It is 12 AWG and costs a mere $400. The sound is better than any copper cable regardless of price, and at 12 AWG it will surpass most OCC litz silver cables from DHC, etc. Perhaps the Prion4 will out perform it, but at 6x the cost.
 
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Jul 14, 2017 at 2:24 PM Post #9,398 of 14,670
A legitimate high end cable discussion must also include double helix cables, prion 4 pure occ silver type 6 litz, 18 awg i think. to note on the corporation side nordost valhalla series, but they don't make headphone cables at this level, usb and such....

I would have loved to have been able to try the Nordost cables. I currently use their Red Dawn power cable to my DAC and am very happy with it. Based on what i've read the double helix is a contender for sure.
 
Jul 14, 2017 at 4:33 PM Post #9,399 of 14,670
In my experience, OCC litz cables are ideal for IEM cables because of better ergonomics but provide no real advantage for headphone cables and interconnects. Good solid core copper or silver wires with proper insulation outperform OCC litz.
 
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Jul 14, 2017 at 8:15 PM Post #9,400 of 14,670
May I politely ask, what is the basis of this statement?. I have the V1 and have played wit a few cables. I am just curious how the conclusion was reached.
 
Jul 15, 2017 at 8:57 AM Post #9,401 of 14,670
I believe the whole chain synergy from source to the cans effect the palate of any can. I have no doubt that Hugo 1 can power susvara he 1 whatever. The input quality will equal the output, better input better output and every can will sound better. I have just gone through this experiment with my new server player, one of the most important upgrades I have done.
So not any old dac or amp or source can make any can live up to its potential that's for sure.
For seemingly power hungry TOTL headphones such as the Hifiman 1000 V2 that may need more than the CHORD Hugo 2 can supply for larger sound stage, dynamics, improved bass impact/slam, I have come across several reasonably priced amps that others have reported good synergy with the HEK V2 in this regard including the MicroZOTL2 tube amp, the Violectric HPA V281, the Trilogy 931 (special order from England), the very inexpensive Schiit Jotunheim, and finally the Wells Audio Milo. Has anyone heard any of these with the HEK V2 and also with the Focal Utopias?? At the moment I am mostly considering the Vioelectric vs Milo.
 
Jul 15, 2017 at 12:38 PM Post #9,402 of 14,670
I've been using the MicroZOTL2 with HEK for a long while, first with v1, now with HEK v2. It drives it well, great sounding. (I recently had it modded by Mojo Audio, and got Mojo's Illuminati LPS, but I'm still evaluating the changes think I need to update my dac and other upstream stuff, Oy!). I haven't used the other amps mentioned, I do have a Liquid Carbon v1. The LC has more power than the ZOTL. The ZOTL sounds much better to my ears. Thus, power is not the only factor in getting the best sound out of the HEK. (I'm not the only fan of the HEK/Zotl combo)
My $0.02.
 
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Jul 15, 2017 at 1:39 PM Post #9,403 of 14,670
May I politely ask, what is the basis of this statement?. I have the V1 and have played wit a few cables. I am just curious how the conclusion was reached.


Here is my story. It’s probably more than you want to know, but I hope to give you the full basis for my earlier comments.

My first custom cable was an 8-wire copper OCC litz cable for my Shure SE846. It was a huge upgrade from the stock cable and made my listening experience immensely enjoyable. My second cable was a ‘top of the line’ 16-wire copper OCC litz cable ($1250) for my HE1000. Just as with the IEM cable, the headphone cable was a huge upgrade to the Hifiman stock cable and showed me the potential of the HE1000 was far greater than I had realized.

My third custom cable was a 4-wire gold and silver OCC litz cable with 1% gold for my newly acquired Noble K10 CIEMs. I mistakenly followed the bad advice of the cable maker in buying his ‘most popular’ cable. It was an improvement over the stock cable, but it also sounded rather lifeless. I believed that the K10’s were performing well below their potential. I was rather perturbed at the cable maker for wasting my money, so I looked elsewhere for a replacement. I became interested in trying a silver cable, in particular, an 8-wire silver OCC litz cable sold by DHC. Although I was apprehensive about spending $850 on a CIEM cable, I took the plunge. From the moment I first listened to that cable, I was sold on silver cables.

I was not prepared to spend $2000 to $3000 on a DHC silver headphone cable, so I decided to follow the advice of @Maxx134 and buy a 16-wire, 12 AWG solid core silver cable from ELA Audio as a ‘proof of concept’ for a silver headphone cable. I was willing to throw away the $400 in the event that the cable was not to my satisfaction. In addition to concerns about cable sound and quality, I was also worried that it would stiff and difficult to use. To my great surprise, the $400 silver cable easily surpassed my ‘top of the line’ 16-wire copper OCC litz cable ($1250) in both sound quality and ergonomics. [The copper cable is currently receiving new connectors and will be for sale in the next few weeks. It will be in ‘like new’ condition with the new connectors. PM me if you are interested.]

I was so excited about a cable that used only ‘run-of-the-mill’ 3N silver that I approached ELA Audio about making me a completely custom cable using my personal choice of wire and plugs/connectors. After some back and forth discussion, she agreed to do it. I spent a lot of time researching silver wire, and eventually, I stumbled upon VH Audio.

From the VH Audio site:

VH Audio's UniCrystal™ OCC (Ohno Continuous Cast) Silver wire is meticulously drawn through special dies, dead soft annealed in an inert nitrogen atmosphere, and follows special handling protocols to minimize any surface marring, before the insulation process begins. Our unique AirLok™ insulation is a proprietary form of foamed/cellular Fluoropolymer that achieves a dielectric constant of less than 1.45! By comparison, the dielectric constant of solid fluoropolymers, such as DuPont™PTFE, FEP, and PFA (referred to as Teflon®, when licensed from DuPont) is 2.1. A perfect vacuum is 1.0.

I asked how the lower dielectric constant manifests itself in terms of sound quality, and here was the reply:

“It’s faster, and more neutral. The lower the dielectric constant, the less dielectric involvement to color the sound. Also, the dissipation factor of the dielectric means the dielectric is less prone to ‘soak up’ signal, and re-release the energy.”

I noticed that VH Audio sells interconnects using that same wire. Furthermore, they offer a 60-day trial period with a 100% refund if not satisfied. Since my interconnects were an 8-wire version of the aforementioned CIEM cable (4 gold and 4 silver wires + 1% gold per cable), I decided to take the risk-free opportunity to try the VH Audio Pulsar Ag interconnect cables, which consist of ONE 24 AWG solid core silver wire. If the cable sounded good, I would plan to buy the same wire for my custom headphone cable.

I only listened to a few bars of Led Zeppelin in 96/24 before I was completely blown away by the VH Audio interconnects. They are in a completely different league than the litz interconnects. A key point: the VH Audio silver easily surpasses the sound of the DHC silver in every way imaginable.

I believe that cables should do nothing more than reveal the character of the system components to the fullest extent possible. They should be neutral and transparent without changing the sonic signature. When I read reviews of OCC litz cables on Head-Fi and elsewhere, I often find criticisms that they alter the character of the sound. In many cases, reviewers’ favorite cables are simply those that have the fewest unwanted side effects.

I also believe in simplicity. Litz cables have to get not only the metal right, but also the configuration of the bundles, the wires within the bundles, and the insulation in the various parts of the cable. Solid core cables only have to worry about the metal and the insulation around each core. With fewer variables, it is easier to ensure that good metal is utilized to the fullest extent possible. I believe that many of the problems users have reported with litz cables are related to the inability of the manufacturers to get all of the variables right.

Even if the litz cable gets everything right, which is going to sound better: an 18 AWG cable or a 12 AWG cable? A 12 AWG cable carries A LOT more signal than an 18 AWG cable.

Oh, and did I mention that the 12 AWG solid core cable is much less expensive?
 
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Jul 15, 2017 at 1:46 PM Post #9,404 of 14,670
Never heard the Violectric but I absolutely love my Milo. I'm always itching to try new things and curious about how the sound can be improved... I don't have this itch any longer with the Milo. It drives my HE1000 v2 with ease And finesse. It pushes just every ounce of ability out of the cans.
 
Jul 15, 2017 at 2:05 PM Post #9,405 of 14,670
Here is my story. It’s probably more than you want to know, but I hope to give you the full basis for my earlier comments.

My first custom cable was an 8-wire copper OCC litz cable for my Shure SE846. It was a huge upgrade from the stock cable and made my listening experience immensely enjoyable. My second cable was a ‘top of the line’ 16-wire copper OCC litz cable ($1250) for my HE1000. Just as with the IEM cable, the headphone cable was a huge upgrade to the Hifiman stock cable and showed me the potential of the HE1000 was far greater than I had realized.

My third custom cable was a 4-wire gold and silver OCC litz cable with 1% gold for my newly acquired Noble K10 CIEMs. I mistakenly followed the bad advice of the cable maker in buying his ‘most popular’ cable. It was an improvement over the stock cable, but it also sounded rather lifeless. I believed that the K10’s were performing well below their potential. I was rather perturbed at the cable maker for wasting my money, so I looked elsewhere for a replacement. I became interested in trying a silver cable, in particular, an 8-wire silver OCC litz cable sold by DHC. Although I was apprehensive about spending $850 on a CIEM cable, I took the plunge. From the moment I first listened to that cable, I was sold on silver cables.

I was not prepared to spend $2000 to $3000 on a DHC silver headphone cable, so I decided to follow the advice of @Maxx134 and buy a 16-wire, 12 AWG solid core silver cable from ELA Audio as a ‘proof of concept’ for a silver headphone cable. I was willing to throw away the $400 in the event that the cable was not to my satisfaction. In addition to concerns about cable sound and quality, I was also worried that it would stiff and difficult to use. To my great surprise, the $400 silver cable easily surpassed my ‘top of the line’ 16-wire copper OCC litz cable ($1250) in both sound quality and ergonomics. [The copper cable is currently receiving new connectors and will be for sale in the next few weeks. It will be in ‘like new’ condition with the new connectors. PM me if you are interested.]

I was so excited about a cable that used only ‘run-of-the-mill’ 3N silver that I approached ELA Audio about making me a completely custom cable using my personal choice of wire and plugs/connectors. After some back and forth discussion, she agreed to do it. I spent a lot of time researching silver wire, and eventually, I stumbled upon VH Audio.

From the VH Audio site:

VH Audio's UniCrystal™ OCC (Ohno Continuous Cast) Silver wire is meticulously drawn through special dies, dead soft annealed in an inert nitrogen atmosphere, and follows special handling protocols to minimize any surface marring, before the insulation process begins. Our unique AirLok™ insulation is a proprietary form of foamed/cellular Fluoropolymer that achieves a dielectric constant of less than 1.45! By comparison, the dielectric constant of solid fluoropolymers, such as DuPont™PTFE, FEP, and PFA (referred to as Teflon®, when licensed from DuPont) is 2.1. A perfect vacuum is 1.0.

I asked how the lower dielectric constant manifests itself in terms of sound quality, and here was the reply:

“It’s faster, and more neutral. The lower the dielectric constant, the less dielectric involvement to color the sound. Also, the dissipation factor of the dielectric means the dielectric is less prone to ‘soak up’ signal, and re-release the energy.”

I noticed that VH Audio sells interconnects using that same wire. Furthermore, they offer a 60-day trial period with a 100% refund if not satisfied. Since my interconnects were an 8-wire version of the aforementioned CIEM cable (4 gold and 4 silver wires + 1% gold per cable), I decided to take the risk-free opportunity to try the VH Audio interconnects, which consist of ONE 24 AWG solid core silver wire. If the cable sounded good, I would plan to buy the same wire for my custom headphone cable.

I only listened to a few bars of Led Zeppelin in 96/24 before I was completely blown away by the VH Audio interconnects. They are in a completely different league than the litz interconnects. A key point: the VH Audio silver easily surpasses the sound of the DHC silver in every way imaginable.

I believe that cables should do nothing more than reveal the character of the system components to the fullest extent possible. They should be neutral and transparent without changing the sonic signature. When I read reviews of OCC litz cables on Head-Fi and elsewhere, I often find criticisms that they alter the character of the sound. In many cases, reviewers’ favorite cables are simply those that have the fewest unwanted side effects.

I also believe in simplicity. Litz cables have to get not only the metal right, but also the configuration of the bundles, the wires within the bundles, and the insulation in the various parts of the cable. Solid core cables only have to worry about the metal and the insulation around each core. With fewer variables, it is easier to ensure that good metal is utilized to the fullest extent possible. I believe that many of the problems users have reported with litz cables are related to the inability of the manufacturers to get all of the variables right.

Even if the litz cable gets everything right, which is going to sound better: an 18 AWG cable or a 12 AWG cable? A 12 AWG cable carries A LOT more signal than an 18 AWG cable.

Oh, and did I mention that the 12 AWG solid core cable is much less expensive?


Quite a comprehensive answer. Thank you.

I am not sure I could handle 12 guage wire hanging off of my headphones though. I do like the ideas you presented.
 

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