[Wyville]

Yeah, when I read your decsription of what you wanted from your new headphones I thought of the HD650. I don't listen to classical music but I could imagine the HD650 to lack some sub bass and soundstage width. Personally I find the HD650 to borderline being too warm but its midrange reproduction is just sublime so I still enjoy them quite a bit.

It's my experience is that the HE400i is harder to drive than what one would think from reading about it while the opposite goes for the HD650 (once again in my experience, YMMV). I'd suggest a amplifier to get the best out of either though, that being said I've never heard any of them with the AK70......

Thanks! I will read up on the HD600 and HD650, and perhaps pop by the store where I bought my AK70. They also sell Sennheiser, as well as other headphones, so that might give me an opportunity to demo a few and discuss a suitable amp if needed.

 

[caenlenfromOCN]

If anyone is interested, I tried my Shure 1540 Alcantara earpads on my HE-400i, and wow they came alive, sub bass is more pronounced, soundstage seems a little increased (even though they are not angled like stock... which makes no sense to me lol) but yeah.... trying my HM5 leathers on them tomorrow, again non-angled, not sure how it will go. wish it was easier to change the pad, those little clips are annoying lol

rock out my friends, rock out!

 

[Mani ATH 87]

Thanks! How do the two compare? I understand the HD650 is a little warmer than the HD600 and I do like a warmer sound, probably because I am quite sensitive to sharp treble or a generally bright signature.

I wonder if anyone has tried to drive the HD600/650 with the AK70. I know it is powerful DAP, but 300 Ohms is also quite a lot.

I like the HE400i better then the HD650's, and far more then HD600's.

The HD650's were my daily use headphones for about 2 years before I swapped to the HE400i. I love both headphones, but the HE400i has a slightly more detailed treble and bass, while the 650's have a nicer mid range. I don't listen to a lot of music where I'd consider the mid range to be a deal breaker, so for me the HE400i wins out.

The HD600 is just a boring headphone to me. It lacks bass and feels flat across the mid range and treble. Some people like this flat/neutral sound and it works well with some genres, but they didn't sound nearly as good to me as either the 650 or 400i.

 

[Wyville]

I like the HE400i better then the HD650's, and far more then HD600's.

The HD650's were my daily use headphones for about 2 years before I swapped to the HE400i. I love both headphones, but the HE400i has a slightly more detailed treble and bass, while the 650's have a nicer mid range. I don't listen to a lot of music where I'd consider the mid range to be a deal breaker, so for me the HE400i wins out.

The HD600 is just a boring headphone to me. It lacks bass and feels flat across the mid range and treble. Some people like this flat/neutral sound and it works well with some genres, but they didn't sound nearly as good to me as either the 650 or 400i.

Thanks, I appreciate your thoughts!

I have been reading up on the options and do really like the sound of the HD650 because of their mid range. I listen to a lot of vocal music, so the mid range is important. The main downside of the HD650 is their need for an amp. I really do not want to bother getting into all that. Based on one of the reviews I read I think that my AK70 will drive the HE400i just fine and should result in a very musical pairing. So a few aspects to consider and I might even opt for the HE400S instead just to give it a try, as it will be my first set of headphones.

 

[DavidA]

Thanks, I appreciate your thoughts!

I have been reading up on the options and do really like the sound of the HD650 because of their mid range. I listen to a lot of vocal music, so the mid range is important. The main downside of the HD650 is their need for an amp. I really do not want to bother getting into all that. Based on one of the reviews I read I think that my AK70 will drive the HE400i just fine and should result in a very musical pairing. So a few aspects to consider and I might even opt for the HE400S instead just to give it a try, as it will be my first set of headphones.

I don't have a AK70 but have used my Fiio X3 & X3ii with my HE400i, HD650 and some other headphones, its going to depend on how loud you listen since every for every 3db louder you need double the power. Since I listen at 65-75dB with peaks up to 85dB almost any DAP will drive most headphones that I use to these levels quite easily but if you listen at higher levels then the need for an amp becomes more important or mandatory. The HD650 is one of the best for vocals and is on the warmer side which you said you are looking for but its not great for classical due to the limited sound stage and slightly rolled of highs which is where I feel details is lost on the HD650 while the HE400i has better details due to the slightly brighter nature of them over the HD650. A few other headphones that you might want to consider: HD700, easier to drive, wide sound stage and better bass than the HE400i and HD650 but can be sibilant to some; EL8-open, very easy to drive with good bass extension and a slightly warm signature but weight might be a concern; SRH-1840, highs like HE400i with mids like the HD650, easier to drive than both but does not do well with higher listening levels.

 

[Wyville]

I don't have a AK70 but have used my Fiio X3 & X3ii with my HE400i, HD650 and some other headphones, its going to depend on how loud you listen since every for every 3db louder you need double the power. Since I listen at 65-75dB with peaks up to 85dB almost any DAP will drive most headphones that I use to these levels quite easily but if you listen at higher levels then the need for an amp becomes more important or mandatory. The HD650 is one of the best for vocals and is on the warmer side which you said you are looking for but its not great for classical due to the limited sound stage and slightly rolled of highs which is where I feel details is lost on the HD650 while the HE400i has better details due to the slightly brighter nature of them over the HD650. A few other headphones that you might want to consider: HD700, easier to drive, wide sound stage and better bass than the HE400i and HD650 but can be sibilant to some; EL8-open, very easy to drive with good bass extension and a slightly warm signature but weight might be a concern; SRH-1840, highs like HE400i with mids like the HD650, easier to drive than both but does not do well with higher listening levels.

Thanks! I just heard back from Hifiman and they suggested that the AK70 easily drives the HE400i, but pairs really well with the HE400S. So that is an interesting option.

I don't listen at high volume levels, so that is not a worry, but I wonder if at lower volume levels the HD650 might still not be driven to their full potential. I remember reading somewhere that an amp is not just about the volume level. Only having used IEMs amps have never been much of an issue for me, so I have no idea.

I have considered the other options you mention, but I am not sure I want to push up my budget for my first set of headphones. I know that if I start doing that, I will probably end up with the LCD-2.

 

[DavidA]

Thanks! I just heard back from Hifiman and they suggested that the AK70 easily drives the HE400i, but pairs really well with the HE400S. So that is an interesting option.

I don't listen at high volume levels, so that is not a worry, but I wonder if at lower volume levels the HD650 might still not be driven to their full potential. I remember reading somewhere that an amp is not just about the volume level. Only having used IEMs amps have never been much of an issue for me, so I have no idea.

I have considered the other options you mention, but I am not sure I want to push up my budget for my first set of headphones. I know that if I start doing that, I will probably end up with the LCD-2.

You're right that its not only the volume level but at the 50-65dB level I can't tell the difference between the X3ii and BH Crack on the HD650 due to the lack of dynamics and outside sound starting to have an effect on what I'm actually hearing through the headphones, its pretty much the same with the HE400i but instead of the BH Crack I used a Lyr2. I have an LCD-2 also but the weight of them limits them to short listening sessions and while they do sound good I think my EL8 is better and also some custom Ypsilon and Nhoord builds are even better.

 

[CoFire]

You're right that its not only the volume level but at the 50-65dB level I can't tell the difference between the X3ii and BH Crack on the HD650 due to the lack of dynamics and outside sound starting to have an effect on what I'm actually hearing through the headphones, its pretty much the same with the HE400i but instead of the BH Crack I used a Lyr2. I have an LCD-2 also but the weight of them limits them to short listening sessions and while they do sound good I think my EL8 is better and also some custom Ypsilon and Nhoord builds are even better.

DavidA, can you compare your LCD2 to the 400i. FR, soundstage, speed, bass impact and decay, extension on both ends, PRAT?

 

[DavidA]

DavidA, can you compare your LCD2 to the 400i. FR, soundstage, speed, bass impact and decay, extension on both ends, PRAT?

FR: LCD-2f goes lower, better detailed bass, has more smoothness and weight in the sound, HE400i is brighter, has more air and better positional clues. both have good extension but the LCD-2f goes a little lower, highs about the same but the LCD-2f is not as bright so it seem like its not as extended but with some tracks its there, just not as forward as the HE400i

Sound stage: pretty close to the same width but LCD-2f has a touch more depth to me

Speed: pretty close but I'd give a slight edge to the HE400i

Impact/Decay: better on my LCD-2f

FYI: my HE400i is the older one with the back plate, has the grill mod and sorbothane in the cups, my LCD-2f is an original Fazor from 2014.

Used Teac UD-301 as the DAC, headphone output of UD301 and Lyr2 (Siemens CCa tubes) as amps.

 

[peter123]

You're right that its not only the volume level but at the 50-65dB level I can't tell the difference between the X3ii and BH Crack on the HD650 due to the lack of dynamics and outside sound starting to have an effect on what I'm actually hearing through the headphones, its pretty much the same with the HE400i but instead of the BH Crack I used a Lyr2. I have an LCD-2 also but the weight of them limits them to short listening sessions and while they do sound good I think my EL8 is better and also some custom Ypsilon and Nhoord builds are even better.

How would you say that the EL8 open compares to the HE400i and HD650, different enough to own all three?

 

[DavidA]

How would you say that the EL8 open compares to the HE400i and HD650, different enough to own all three?

This is a hard question to answer since the sound signature of the EL8 has changed a bit from the first batch to the current and the same can be said for the HE400i but the differences are not as great between the older back plate and new one without the back plate. For me with what I have they are quite different that it was easy to keep all 3. With that said, my HE400i and HD650 get little use these days since building some custom headphones using the Ypsilon and Nhoord drivers while the EL8 still gets a good amount of use mainly because its lighter than the LCD-2f and very easy to drive, just like the Ypsilon and Nhoord builds.

 

[peter123]

This is a hard question to answer since the sound signature of the EL8 has changed a bit from the first batch to the current and the same can be said for the HE400i but the differences are not as great between the older back plate and new one without the back plate. For me with what I have they are quite different that it was easy to keep all 3. With that said, my HE400i and HD650 get little use these days since building some custom headphones using the Ypsilon and Nhoord drivers while the EL8 still gets a good amount of use mainly because its lighter than the LCD-2f and very easy to drive, just like the Ypsilon and Nhoord builds.

Thanks! I had a good listen to the HE-6 and HE560 a week ago and really really liked the HE-6. Maybe I'm better of saving up for a pair of those since they're definitely an upgrade to every other headphones I own (or even heard).

 

[DavidA]

Thanks! I had a good listen to the HE-6 and HE560 a week ago and really really liked the HE-6. Maybe I'm better of saving up for a pair of those since they're definitely an upgrade to every other headphones I own (or even heard).

The HE-6 is really good, only thing is it need a good amp to pair with it, speaker taps are probably the best way to drive them which is how they sounded best to me. Also, the weight and headband was not the most comfortable so using a Lohb strap or designing a custom cushion might be needed.

 

[peter123]

The HE-6 is really good, only thing is it need a good amp to pair with it, speaker taps are probably the best way to drive them which is how they sounded best to me. Also, the weight and headband was not the most comfortable so using a Lohb strap or designing a custom cushion might be needed.

Yeah, the comfort is my only concern. I didn't find them uncomfortable but neither where they close to the HE560 in comfort, but better sounding imo.

I was listening to both on the Violectric V281 and it worked very well. I'm going to bring the Ember II back there and listen to them again. I'm sure both the Burson V2+ and Nuforce HA-200 has enough power for them but I'm not sure about how they'll pair with them. Both setups are too heavy to bring somewhere though so the Ember is the only of my own amplifiers I'll be able to test them with.....

 

[CoFire]

FR: LCD-2f goes lower, better detailed bass, has more smoothness and weight in the sound, HE400i is brighter, has more air and better positional clues. both have good extension but the LCD-2f goes a little lower, highs about the same but the LCD-2f is not as bright so it seem like its not as extended but with some tracks its there, just not as forward as the HE400i

Sound stage: pretty close to the same width but LCD-2f has a touch more depth to me

Speed: pretty close but I'd give a slight edge to the HE400i

Impact/Decay: better on my LCD-2f

FYI: my HE400i is the older one with the back plate, has the grill mod and sorbothane in the cups, my LCD-2f is an original Fazor from 2014.

Used Teac UD-301 as the DAC, headphone output of UD301 and Lyr2 (Siemens CCa tubes) as amps.

Thanks for the response. I have the 400i without the back plate (and with 2.5 mm connectors) and compared to two other 400i I've heard side by side, I feel mine sounds best based on low end response. Highs were very similar and speed indistinguishable and all sampling was thru an m9XX dac/amp. My impression is that the grill mod becomes much less critical to open up the 400i if they don't have that backplate. I get the feeling sometimes that I'd prefer the non fazor LCD2 based on your response and what little I've read about their comparison to the fazor version. Any experience listening to those?