[musiclvr]

Just realized that I have a CEntrance HiFiM8, which is a DAC/amp with selectable output impedance (1, 2 and 10 ohms) and balanced, single-ended, and optical outputs.  I drove it with digital input from the Lightening connector of the iPhone 5.

I tried the Grado GS2000e in both single-ended and balanced mode, comparing sounds on both the test music that I use to evaluate soundstage and positional resolution, on orchestral work where a wide angle and variety of instruments are present, and on some smaller-ensemble music where I heard some surprising depth of sources, e.g., drum set with sound having dimension toward/from the listener.

In all cases, I could not distinguish any difference between single ended and balanced.  I could not form a preference because I could not hear any difference.

In the past, when I got a balanced cable for my Sennheiser HD800, I had heard a difference between single ended and balanced, both in tonal quality and in instrument position, on my Sennheiser HDVD 800 DAC/amp.  So I sort of know what to listen for, but here, I heard no difference.

Were you able to use the HDVD 800 DAC/Amp or just the HiFiM8? I too own the HiFiM8 and if I am correct; it has a xlr output that is not actually truly balanced. It just has the xlr connection.

 

[musiclvr]

I have found that you will hear a sound difference when changing the impedance but not the connection with the HiFiM8 and my GS2Ke Bal.

 

[Allanmarcus]

 

  @ruthieandjohn 
 
Seems like the GS2Ke has pulled away nicely from the others…I'm getting the itch now!
Thanks for your comparisons and I'm looking forward to the GS1Ke SE vs balanced.

Just realized that I have a CEntrance HiFiM8, which is a DAC/amp with selectable output impedance (1, 2 and 10 ohms) and balanced, single-ended, and optical outputs.  I drove it with digital input from the Lightening connector of the iPhone 5.
 
I tried the Grado GS2000e in both single-ended and balanced mode, comparing sounds on both the test music that I use to evaluate soundstage and positional resolution, on orchestral work where a wide angle and variety of instruments are present, and on some smaller-ensemble music where I heard some surprising depth of sources, e.g., drum set with sound having dimension toward/from the listener.
 
In all cases, I could not distinguish any difference between single ended and balanced.  I could not form a preference because I could not hear any difference.
 
In the past, when I got a balanced cable for my Sennheiser HD800, I had heard a difference between single ended and balanced, both in tonal quality and in instrument position, on my Sennheiser HDVD 800 DAC/amp.  So I sort of know what to listen for, but here, I heard no difference.

No difference between single ended and balanced is consistent with, you know, physics, assume the amp is putting out the same single to both. You may hear a difference with the HD800 due to impedance differences between the amp's output between SE and balanced. Balanced output might be more even across the FR with respect to impedance. In that case it the amp and headphone synergy, not the transport protocol.
 
The grado's are possibly efficient enough across the spectrum to not be affected by impedance variations across the FR spectrum. 
 
Maybe. 

 

[ruthieandjohn]

Were you able to use the HDVD 800 DAC/Amp or just the HiFiM8? I too own the HiFiM8 and if I am correct; it has a xlr output that is not actually truly balanced. It just has the xlr connection.

Oh, did not know that about the HiFiM8 XLR. I will try on my Sennheiser DAC/amp too, then. Thanks!

 

[joseph69]

Were you able to use the HDVD 800 DAC/Amp or just the HiFiM8? I too own the HiFiM8 and if I am correct; it has a xlr output that is not actually truly balanced. It just has the xlr connection.

This was going to be my next question.

 

[ruthieandjohn]

Were you able to use the HDVD 800 DAC/Amp or just the HiFiM8? I too own the HiFiM8 and if I am correct; it has a xlr output that is not actually truly balanced. It just has the xlr connection.

CEntrance literature indicates that the XLR connection is balanced on the HiFiM8, and they also have a two-XLR, 3 pin connection version for each channel.  So I think it is fully balanced.
 
However, I will try on one of my other amps.

 

[wormsdriver]

i was an early adopter of the Hifi-m8 and I also recall that most people couldn't hear a difference between the single ended and balanced output on the Hifi-M8 as @musiclvr said.
 
@joseph69, since I know you really like the GH-1 w/G cush, I would HIGHLY recommend the Gs2000e as a step up from it. The Gs2ke is an excellent headphone in my opinion and I feel like I personally would choose it over the PS1ke.

 

[joseph69]

  i was an early adopter of the Hifi-m8 and I also recall that most people couldn't hear a difference between the single ended and balanced output on the Hifi-M8 as @musiclvr said.
 
@joseph69, since I know you really like the GH-1 w/G cush, I would HIGHLY recommend the Gs2000e as a step up from it. The Gs2ke is an excellent headphone in my opinion and I feel like I personally would choose it over the PS1ke.

It has been suggested to me many times, so in the further I'm definitely going to borrow it from TCC loaner program and give it a listen. The problem is I have 6 pairs of HP's (too many) and I know I'm going to buy the GS2Ke once I hear it!

 

[ruthieandjohn]

I just increased my comparison of single-ended vs. balanced driving of the GS2000e from the CEntrance HiFiM8 to also include the Sennheiser HDVD800 DAC/amp, optimized for the Sennheiser HD 800 headphones, and the HiFiMAN EF-6 amp, optimized for the HFiMAN HE-6 headphones.
 
Unlike the CEntrance, where I heard NO difference between the single-ended and balanced outputs, I DID hear a difference between single-ended and balanced with both the HDVD800 and the EF-6.
 
The most immediate observation with either amp is that the balanced was louder.  This is consistent with my understanding of a balanced amp, which includes two amp chains one for positive and one for equal and opposite negative excursions of the signal. -- twice as many amps, more sound.  On the CEntrance, the loudness of the GS2000e was the same in single-ended or in balanced.
 
Listening more carefully, I found a slight improvement in soundstage with the balanced for both the HDVD800 and the EF-6.  In a pleasant way, it was as if the room suddenly became just a bit larger, more spherical, and a bit more reverberant with balanced as compared with single mode.  I also found that the treble detail was a bit better for the balanced, especially on the Sennheiser.
 
This suggests that:
 

• There is a (small but noticable) advantage to the GS2000e running in balanced mode from a true balanced amp;
• The CEntrance HiFiM8 provides a balanced impedance output, but seems not to provide two separate amp paths internally as do the Sennheiser HDVD800 and HiFiMAN EF-6.

 

[joseph69]

  I just increased my comparison of single-ended vs. balanced driving of the GS2000e from the CEntrance HiFiM8 to also include the Sennheiser HDVD800 DAC/amp, optimized for the Sennheiser HD 800 headphones, and the HiFiMAN EF-6 amp, optimized for the HFiMAN HE-6 headphones.
 
Unlike the CEntrance, where I heard NO difference between the single-ended and balanced outputs, I DID hear a difference between single-ended and balanced with both the HDVD800 and the EF-6.
 
The most immediate observation with either amp is that the balanced was louder.  This is consistent with my understanding of a balanced amp, which includes two amp chains one for positive and one for equal and opposite negative excursions of the signal. -- twice as many amps, more sound.  On the CEntrance, the loudness of the GS2000e was the same in single-ended or in balanced.
 
Listening more carefully, I found a slight improvement in soundstage with the balanced for both the HDVD800 and the EF-6.  In a pleasant way, it was as if the room suddenly became just a bit larger, more spherical, and a bit more reverberant with balanced as compared with single mode.  I also found that the treble detail was a bit better for the balanced, especially on the Sennheiser.
 
This suggests that:
 

• There is a (small but noticable) advantage to the GS2000e running in balanced mode from a true balanced amp;
• The CEntrance HiFiM8 provides a balanced impedance output, but seems not to provide two separate amp paths internally as do the Sennheiser HDVD800 and HiFiMAN EF-6.

Nice find.
Those "small but noticeable" advantages/differences are well worth it to my ears, especially if you already have an amp/DAC that is truly capable of running balanced, so why not use them to their fullest potential?

 

[ruthieandjohn]

Post material moved here.

 

[joseph69]

You're killing me! I can't read your comparisons anymore because I'm about to place an order for the GS2Ke!
Very impressive scores on your comparison chart. 

 

[wormsdriver]

 
i was an early adopter of the Hifi-m8 and I also recall that most people couldn't hear a difference between the single ended and balanced output on the Hifi-M8 as @musiclvr
 said.

@joseph69
, since I know you really like the GH-1 w/G cush, I would HIGHLY recommend the Gs2000e as a step up from it. The Gs2ke is an excellent headphone in my opinion and I feel like I personally would choose it over the PS1ke.

It has been suggested to me many times, so in the further I'm definitely going to borrow it from TCC loaner program and give it a listen. The problem is I have 6 pairs of HP's (too many) and I know I'm going to buy the GS2Ke once I hear it!

Not a bad problem to have my friend!

 

[pbui44]

I just increased my comparison of single-ended vs. balanced driving of the GS2000e from the CEntrance HiFiM8 to also include the Sennheiser HDVD800 DAC/amp, optimized for the Sennheiser HD 800 headphones, and the HiFiMAN EF-6 amp, optimized for the HFiMAN HE-6 headphones.

Unlike the CEntrance, where I heard NO difference between the single-ended and balanced outputs, I DID hear a difference between single-ended and balanced with both the HDVD800 and the EF-6.

The most immediate observation with either amp is that the balanced was louder.  This is consistent with my understanding of a balanced amp, which includes two amp chains one for positive and one for equal and opposite negative excursions of the signal. -- twice as many amps, more sound.  On the CEntrance, the loudness of the GS2000e was the same in single-ended or in balanced.

Listening more carefully, I found a slight improvement in soundstage with the balanced for both the HDVD800 and the EF-6.  In a pleasant way, it was as if the room suddenly became just a bit larger, more spherical, and a bit more reverberant with balanced as compared with single mode.  I also found that the treble detail was a bit better for the balanced, especially on the Sennheiser.

This suggests that:

1. There is a (small but noticable) advantage to the GS2000e running in balanced mode from a true balanced amp;
2. The CEntrance HiFiM8 provides a balanced impedance output, but seems not to provide two separate amp paths internally as do the Sennheiser HDVD800 and HiFiMAN EF-6.

Now that you know there is some difference between SE and Fully-Balanced on the GS2000e, make the flagship comparison chart with 4 columns: GS2000e with HDVD800, GS2000e with EF-6, HD800 with HDVD800, and HE-6 with EF-6. If you want, add 2 columns: HD800 with EF-6 and HE-6 with HDVD800.

 

[joseph69]

Not a bad problem to have my friend!

Just too many for me, although it is definitely not a bad problem to have.