[musickid]

FOR RELIC:

If i were only using the mojo and no other sound output devices as in your screenshot (here you have a variety of output devices set up as aggregate devices) can i use the normal output setting for the mojo ie no aggregate devices set up where here the clock source would read as default and greyed out and not mojo? so in this case i would be sure the asynchrous usb input of the mojo is master clock for timing etc? hope that makes sense. rob has told me that when usb is used fpga always controls timing.

 

[x RELIC x]

FOR RELIC:

If i were only using the mojo and no other sound output devices as in your screenshot (here you have a variety of output devices set up as aggregate devices) can i use the normal output setting for the mojo ie no aggregate devices set up where here the clock source would read as default and greyed out and not mojo? so in this case i would be sure the asynchrous usb input of the mojo is master clock for timing etc? hope that makes sense. rob has told me that when usb is used fpga always controls timing.

To be clear, the other options in the Midi app are simply the built in audio outputs on my Mac Pro, which is why the clock says default. They are not active when I select the Mojo for output.

Secondly, the USB will always be asynchronous from the selected output device, no matter what else is connected to the computer at the same time. When you select the device you want to output to then that is the device that will do the timing for the USB audio. In this case, it's the Mojo. Yes, Rob is correct and you can't defeat this.

 

[musickid]

Ok many thanks. i suppose my question is if mojo is selected as the output device and it still reads clock source default (and not clock source mojo as in your case) can i still be be assured the usb timing is done by mojo?

secondly if the answer is yes to the above why are there two options 1)clock source default, and 2)clock source mojo, if in both cases mojo is doing the timing for usb audio? been trying to get an answer to this for ages now. (clock source mojo only appears when setting it as an aggregate device otherwise for mojo it reads clock source default)

cheers MK.

 

[x RELIC x]

Ok many thanks. i suppose my question is if mojo is selected as the output device and it still reads clock source default (and not clock source mojo as in your case) can i still be be assured the usb timing is done by mojo?

secondly if the answer is yes to the above why are there two options 1)clock source default, and 2)clock source mojo, if in both cases mojo is doing the timing for usb audio? been trying to get an answer to this for ages now.

cheers MK.

It will never say anything other than Mojo for the clock when the Mojo is selected as the output device. It's just an informative display for the user. If it still says default then the Mojo is not selected as the output device or the Mojo isn't powered on, or something else is wrong in the computer settings.

 

[musickid]

hi again RELIC

yes you are totally right when mojo is selected as an output device the clock reads mojo. but that is only when you add it as a device by pressing the little plus sign and you get the the usb symbol next to mojo. if however you do not select it as an aggregate device and simply select mojo as the output (without pressing the little plus sign and adding it) mojo is still selected as output but the clock source reads default. do you know why this is?

 

[x RELIC x]

hi again RELIC

yes you are totally right when mojo is selected as an output device the clock reads mojo. but that is only when you add it as a device by pressing the little plus sign and you get the the usb symbol next to mojo. if however you do not select it as an aggregate device and simply select mojo as the output (without pressing the little plus sign and adding it) mojo is still selected as output but the clock source reads default. do you know why this is?

Nope. Do you hear anything from the Mojo when it reads default for the clock? I don't think you will, or it may change when you actually play music. I don't know.

For the record, I use Audirvana plus which optimizes the system for audio playback and bypasses Apple's core audio. With that software I set the output to the DAVE (I don't normally use the Mojo from my computer) and just enjoy the music. The Midi controller is an Apple app I don't normally use, but the process I listed earlier is what I used to do to select the audio output to an external DAC.

Edit: Do you mean when you just highlight the Mojo in the list that the clock still says default? Highlighting the device does not automatically select it to use as the output.

 

[musickid]

Nope. Do you hear anything from the Mojo when it reads default for the clock? I don't think you will.

For the record, I use Audirvana plus which optimizes the system for audio playback and bypasses Apple's core audio. With that software I set the output to the DAVE (I don't normally use the Mojo from my computer) and just enjoy the music. The Midi controller is an Apple app I don't normally use, but the process I listed earlier is what I used to do to select the audio output to an external DAC.

my experience is with a modi multibit dac. im getting ready for the arrival of my hugo 2. its the same settings on mac regardless of which dac you use. very simply there are two options regarding the clock reading. the first is clock source default. you get this when choosing your dac as an output device so very simple here. the second option is when you press the little plus symbol and add your dac as an aggregate device. here the clock source reads mojo or whatever the name of your dac is. aggregate devices are set up when you have multiple output devices. if the fpga controls the timing under all circumstances when using usb like rob correctly says 1)does it even make any difference what settings you use on mac and 2) would you be kind enough to have a look at audio midi set up and try and understand the difference between clock source default and clock sourcethe name of the dac) for eg mojo.? thanks again till now no one has been able to answer this for me. and yes with default it sounds the same as when the name of the dac shows

 

[x RELIC x]

its the same settings on mac regardless of which dac you use.

Yes, of course it works with any device you have connected, but we're talking about the Mojo here in the Mojo solutions thread.

Ok, first of all I don't use aggregate audio output as I don't need multiple input and output devices. However, I set up a simple aggregate and here are my results with the aggregate clock set to the Default Built-in Output for the clock for both the Mojo and the built in output. You can confirm the aggregate clock is set to the Default Built-in Output by the clock icon in the list, and it automatically selects drift correction for the Mojo when you do so. Any device selected in the aggregate that is not the Master clock device will have its drift correction turned on automatically.

As you can see in the pictures below, even when the aggregate clock is set to Default Built-in Output for the Mojo it still displays it is using the Mojo's clock for the Mojo. You can't get around the Mojo asynchronous DAC timing. It overrides what you set in the aggregate. Frankly I'd not worry about it. Again, if you're getting sound then you are getting the timing from the Mojo, or it wouldn't lock to the source.





In the third image I still have the option for the clock set to Default Built-in Output, but clearly the system is reporting using Mojo's clock for the Mojo. When listening through the Mojo there is absolutely no change when I flip between default and Mojo in the aggregate clock setting. No click, no pause, no difference in sound.

One last test setting the Built-in Output as the master clock in the aggregate and outputting audio from the Built-in Output, and the system still reports using the Mojo clock for the Mojo's output. The evidence is conclusive.

 

[musickid]

Thanks RELIC. To conclude here. in the case where no aggregate devices are set up at all you would simply pick mojo as the output device from the left hand menu and here the clock source would read default and NOT mojo. in this case can i also ensure the mojo asynchrous usb clock is acting as master? you can see from my screenshot no aggregate devices are set up and only one device is selected at a time here the built in output. here any dac you select as output from the left hand options would read clock source default. thanks again. ie no matter which dac is selected as output clock source default always shows and is greyed out as seen in the snapshot. you can imagine instead of built in output which is highlighted it would be mojo instead. i don't currently have a dac as i'm awaiting my hugo 2 or i would have used it as an example here. ultimately i want to ensure the dac usb is master for timing.

 

[x RELIC x]

Thanks RELIC. To conclude here. in the case where no aggregate devices are set up at all you would simply pick mojo as the output device from the left hand menu and here the clock source would read default and NOT mojo. in this case can i also ensure the mojo asynchrous usb clock is acting as master? you can see from my screenshot no aggregate devices are set up and only one device is selected at a time here the built in output. here any dac you select as output from the left hand options would read clock source default. thanks again. ie no matter which dac is selected as output clock source default always shows and is greyed out as seen in the snapshot.

Not in my experience with the Midi utility. If I have the Mojo selected as the output then it shows the Mojo as the clock for the Mojo. There is no option otherwise without setting up an aggregate, and even with the aggregate it shows the Mojo as the clock for the Mojo. I've already shown what this looks like in my earlier post.

I'm sorry, but I don't understand the confusion here because the Midi Utility is showing me the correct clock being used. If you plug in an asynchronous USB DAC then it shows the clock is from the DAC.

Once again...

 

[musickid]

hopefully this will conclude here but i have a perfect example from the net also here. here the chord dac is selected as the output device from the left hand menu. no aggregate devices are set up at all in audio midi set up as you can see. only in aggregate devices do you see the name of your dac next to clock source. here you can clearly see the clock source default is greyed out so it can't be changed. in this case can i still ensure the chord dac asynchrous usb is acting as master? thats what i've been getting at all along? (from the left hand side you can only select one device at a time unlike the multiple devices for which aggregate devices set up are for. just to restate aggregate devices are set up by clicking the little plus sign) thanks for help RELIC. oh and any dac selected in this screen will show clock source default. note too the lack of the usb symbol which only shows when an aggregate device is added or you make your dac an aggregate device.

 

[x RELIC x]

Well, if you note in my previous screen shot this is not the case for me at all. My display shows the USB symbol and the Mojo as the master clock, with no aggregate devices set up.

In that last picture you show it looks like the Chord device is not being used to output the audio. Notice the speaker icon is beside the built-in output, not the Chord device, therefore the external Chord DAC is not selected for audio output in that screenshot. The header is just showing the name of the mouse selection (for editing the parameters of that selection), but the output is set to the built-in output, and therefore using the default clock in the computer. You need to right click the selection and choose 'use this device for sound output' or else the default clock will be displayed, AFAIK. I'm on the iPad now and the Mac is off so I can't double check.

I know what you're saying, I just don't have the same behaviour and therefore can't really help further.

Also, I'm on El Capitan so I'm not sure if that screen grab is from a different OSX version with different behaviour, or if there is something else going on. My settings are largely default on my Mac computers. Or maybe that Chord device (no clue what it is) is actually an old isynchronous device that required the timing from the source. If using an asynchronous USB input DAC the timing will come from the DAC, as Rob said to you.

 

[musickid]

many thanks for your help RELIC that's great. you stated the computer "clock" reads as default that's what i was trying to find out. just select the dac as output device and job done. however if the fpga controls timing under all circumstances with usb surely the settings have no effect and are overriden???umm

 

[miketlse]

If it wasn't for you two discussing clock settings, or the discussion about the perception of bass transients on the Blu 2 thread, there would be little happening on the Chord threads.
All that huge momentum has disappeared.
Let's hope that in another 3 weeks, things will liven up.

 

[musickid]

exactly mike. im trying to do my homework now and brush up on any outstanding gaps in my knowledge in eager anticipation of collecting my hugo 2. on the hugo 2 thread there is an equally interesting discussion between myself tony and hooster on volume settings in tidal, and how that relates to mac volume settings in order to achieve bit perfect playback.