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ZMF Verite

Discussion in 'High-end Audio Forum' started by heliosphann, Oct 3, 2018.
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  1. Hansotek
    By details, I meant both inner detail and ambient detail. You can increase perception of ambient detail to an extent by monkeying with the frequency response. True inner detail/resolution cannot be faked. All drivers will resolve to some level before breakup. That is not a byproduct of stereo separation.

    I'm not sure what you were disagreeing with on the other post. It seems like what you said was only tangentially relevant to my point.
     
    ProfFalkin likes this.
  2. Blase
    I shy away from using warm & laid back interchangeably, mostly because the Elear is the warmest headphone I've heard while maintaining its mach speed transients. Wouldn't surprise me if the Elear turned out warmer than the Verite, but wouldn't call it laid back due to that or its recessed midrange which is another characteristic they share (even though it looks like the Verite's mids don't fall off a cliff like the Elears).

    I swear I'm not trying to be pedantic. I just think it's important to clarify stuff like this. I think under almost all circumstances the Auteur (with Auteur pads) would have the more laid back sound given how you've described the Verite. I'll compare them both once ZMFestivus is over.
     
  3. Hansotek
    I mean, if we're getting all technical here, all transients are at least mach speed.

    You're somewhat unfairly trying to assign A characteristic of the presentation of one certain kind of music as a defining characteristic of every aspect of the entire headphone. That's completely twisting what I'm saying.
     
    Spandy87 and ProfFalkin like this.
  4. Blase
    That comes down to how aggressive the Verite is billed. If things are swift, have an edge, is large & in your face, laid back isn't what comes to mind. Those things seem to be consistent across the board, so I don't think I'm twisting anything ‍♂️

    But I'm honestly not interested in talking in circles. I was just pointing out why it was odd, especially when compared to the more even & linear sound of the Auteur, for the Verite to be even more laid back given its tuning. Back to Oxnard I go :L3000:
     
  5. gLer
    So many different interpretations of the same headphone! Sounds like Utopia had s*x with Atticus and Auteur and no-one is sure who the father is because baby Verite sometimes sounds more like one or the other depending on what music’s playing :p

    All we know for sure is that HD800 is mad as hell, Eikon is still p*ssed it didn’t get a go with Utopia, and Aeolus is too busy admiring itself in the mirror to notice.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2018
    Sniperpr5, davisman and FunctionalDoc like this.
  6. Hansotek
    I think the problem is that you don't understand what "laid back" means in audiophile terminology. I recommend you visit this page: https://www.head-fi.org/articles/describing-sound-a-glossary.12328/
     
  7. Blase
    Or that the terminology isn't rigid & people use phrases differently. I'm not going to disregard the rest of the FR just because the mids are recessed (with the Elear again as an example.) If they're fast & in your face that's the antithesis of laid back. We'll just have to agree to disagree here. Finished Oxnard by the way. Skip it if you're an Anderson .Paak fan.
     
  8. Hansotek
    Hahaha! From what I can tell, it seems we're all hearing the same thing, but it's really difficult to explain. It's kinda more like the Sony MDR-Z1R had a baby with the Focal Utopia but it has that nice, organic ZMF tone and a bigger stage than any of them.

    I can't wait for people to misinterpret this comment, lol.
     
    heliosphann, felix3650 and gLer like this.
  9. gLer
    So a Sony slept with a Focal and had a ZMF!? Yeah right, try explaining that to Zach!

    Can we at least agree that it’s not a neutral headphone? Just so we know to prepare for the purists and their pitchforks telling us the Verite is a second-class citizen not worth the cost because it doesn’t conform to one or other FR target.

    Maybe Zach should have called it Snow (first name John).
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2018
    Redmetal1897 likes this.
  10. CoFire
    I thought @Blase was spot on with his inquiry as I am also perplexed. Yes, I've read the audiophile terminology and understand is a good "non exact" reference point. I think it's a great reference.

    I think when you say the Verite is more laid back than the Autuer, that causes confusion. Given the Be coated driver construction and most the impressions thus far, sharper attack, quicker transients, great dynamics, this seems contrary to laid back compared to the Autuer.

    Laid-back - Recessed, distant-sounding, having exaggerated depth, usually because of a dished midrange. Compare "Forward".

    Is the Verite more laid back than the Autuer?
     
    Blase likes this.
  11. Hansotek
    I'm not trying to insult you or anything here, but I think if you read those terms, you're going to get what I'm talking about. Here, I'll save you the trouble of going to the page:

    Laid-back - Recessed, distant-sounding, having exaggerated depth, usually because of a dished midrange. Compare "Forward".

    Forward(ness) - Similar to an aggressive sound, a sense of image being projected in front of the speakers and of music being forced upon the listener. Compare "Laid-back".

    It seemed you were having trouble with what I was saying, so hopefully that helps. Laid-back presentation of vocals is not the same as a mellow sounding headphone. I'm talking relative to neutral here, just to clarify. Not trying to be a pain here, just trying to help you understand what I'm saying.
     
  12. Blase
    Glad I wasn't the only one. @Hansotek the Elear has one of the most recessed upper midranges I've ever heard. Would you consider that headphone "laid back" too?
     
  13. Hansotek
    Yes. If we're calling Auteur "flat", Verite has more volume through the midbass and the lower mids and less volume above 1kHz or so.
     
  14. Hansotek
    Yes. Laid back describes the upper midrange. Elear is laid back in its presentation. That doesn't mean that it's "mellow sounding". I did not define these terms, I'm just using the agreed-upon audio terminology.
     
    BunnyNamedCraig and Spandy87 like this.
  15. gLer
    I must admit that while I follow your logic that’s the first time I’ve heard the Elear being described as laid back. By the same agreed definitions, the Elear can give a sense of music being forced upon the listener. So can it be that a headphone (like the Elear and maybe Verite) is both laid back and forward at the same time (which would explain your brain struggling to make sense of it)?
     
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