[Hansotek]

I guess that is because Vertie's stereo separation is that good. A warm headphone probably still has all details there, but we just can't hear them clearly because volume on some frequency ranges is muted. I guess when stereo separation is good, we may still hear them a bit more. Just my 2 cents.



I agree with this, but disagree in another way. HD800 has slightly recessed vocals on midrange, so I used to crank it up to hear them more clearly. But it also raises volume on bass and upper frequencies at the same time, which hurt my ears after a short period of time. For this reason, I prefer to use EQ to balance volume across frequency spectrum.

By details, I meant both inner detail and ambient detail. You can increase perception of ambient detail to an extent by monkeying with the frequency response. True inner detail/resolution cannot be faked. All drivers will resolve to some level before breakup. That is not a byproduct of stereo separation.

I'm not sure what you were disagreeing with on the other post. It seems like what you said was only tangentially relevant to my point.

 

[Blase]

I mean, it comes off as a sort of laid back with jazz because of the warmer presentation. When you're talking about Diana Krall, for example, the presentation of the upper midrange is going to have everything to do with how you interpret whether the sound is forward or laid back. But the warmth also lets you crank it up a bit, and as I've said many times, it is more dynamic.... so if I've got it cranked up and I'm jamming metal, rock, hip-hop or EDM, it's going to be a lot more hard-hitting/impactful/exciting vs. Auteur.

It does sound bigger, exactly as you said, regardless of the coloration relative to the music being played because the stage is larger and the dynamics are bigger.

I shy away from using warm & laid back interchangeably, mostly because the Elear is the warmest headphone I've heard while maintaining its mach speed transients. Wouldn't surprise me if the Elear turned out warmer than the Verite, but wouldn't call it laid back due to that or its recessed midrange which is another characteristic they share (even though it looks like the Verite's mids don't fall off a cliff like the Elears).

I swear I'm not trying to be pedantic. I just think it's important to clarify stuff like this. I think under almost all circumstances the Auteur (with Auteur pads) would have the more laid back sound given how you've described the Verite. I'll compare them both once ZMFestivus is over.

 

[Hansotek]

I shy away from using warm & laid back interchangeably, mostly because the Elear is the warmest headphone I've heard while maintaining its mach speed transients. Wouldn't surprise me if the Elear turned out warmer than the Verite, but wouldn't call it laid back due to that or its recessed midrange which is another characteristic they share (even though it looks like the Verite's mids don't fall off a cliff like the Elears).

I swear I'm not trying to be pedantic. I just think it's important to clarify stuff like this. I think under almost all circumstances the Auteur (with Auteur pads) would have the more laid back sound given how you've described the Verite. I'll compare them both once ZMFestivus is over.

I mean, if we're getting all technical here, all transients are at least mach speed.

You're somewhat unfairly trying to assign A characteristic of the presentation of one certain kind of music as a defining characteristic of every aspect of the entire headphone. That's completely twisting what I'm saying.

 

[Blase]

I mean, if we're getting all technical here, all transients are at least mach speed.

You're somewhat unfairly trying to assign A characteristic of the presentation of one certain kind of music as a defining characteristic of every aspect of the entire headphone. That's completely twisting what I'm saying.

That comes down to how aggressive the Verite is billed. If things are swift, have an edge, is large & in your face, laid back isn't what comes to mind. Those things seem to be consistent across the board, so I don't think I'm twisting anything ‍

But I'm honestly not interested in talking in circles. I was just pointing out why it was odd, especially when compared to the more even & linear sound of the Auteur, for the Verite to be even more laid back given its tuning. Back to Oxnard I go

 

[gLer]

So many different interpretations of the same headphone! Sounds like Utopia had s*x with Atticus and Auteur and no-one is sure who the father is because baby Verite sometimes sounds more like one or the other depending on what music’s playing

All we know for sure is that HD800 is mad as hell, Eikon is still p*ssed it didn’t get a go with Utopia, and Aeolus is too busy admiring itself in the mirror to notice.

 

[Hansotek]

That comes down to how aggressive the Verite is billed. If things are swift, have an edge, is large & in your face, laid back isn't what comes to mind. Those things seem to be consistent across the board, so I don't think I'm twisting anything ‍

But I'm honestly not interested in talking in circles. I was just pointing out why it was odd, especially when compared to the more even & linear sound of the Auteur, for the Verite to be even more laid back given its tuning. Back to Oxnard I go

I think the problem is that you don't understand what "laid back" means in audiophile terminology. I recommend you visit this page: https://www.head-fi.org/articles/describing-sound-a-glossary.12328/

 

[Blase]

I think the problem is that you don't understand what "laid back" means in audiophile terminology. I recommend you visit this page: https://www.head-fi.org/articles/describing-sound-a-glossary.12328/

Or that the terminology isn't rigid & people use phrases differently. I'm not going to disregard the rest of the FR just because the mids are recessed (with the Elear again as an example.) If they're fast & in your face that's the antithesis of laid back. We'll just have to agree to disagree here. Finished Oxnard by the way. Skip it if you're an Anderson .Paak fan.

 

[Hansotek]

So many different interpretations of the same headphone! Sounds like Utopia had s*x with Atticus and Auteur and no-one is sure who the father is because baby Verite sometimes sounds more like one or the other depending on what music’s playing

All we know for sure is that HD800 is mad as hell, Eikon is still p*ssed it didn’t get a go with Utopia, and Aeolus is too busy admiring itself in the mirror to notice.

Hahaha! From what I can tell, it seems we're all hearing the same thing, but it's really difficult to explain. It's kinda more like the Sony MDR-Z1R had a baby with the Focal Utopia but it has that nice, organic ZMF tone and a bigger stage than any of them.

I can't wait for people to misinterpret this comment, lol.

 

[gLer]

Hahaha! From what I can tell, it seems we're all hearing the same thing, but it's really difficult to explain. It's kinda more like the Sony MDR-Z1R had a baby with the Focal Utopia but it has that nice, organic ZMF tone and a bigger stage than any of them.

I can't wait for people to misinterpret this comment, lol.

So a Sony slept with a Focal and had a ZMF!? Yeah right, try explaining that to Zach!

Can we at least agree that it’s not a neutral headphone? Just so we know to prepare for the purists and their pitchforks telling us the Verite is a second-class citizen not worth the cost because it doesn’t conform to one or other FR target.

Maybe Zach should have called it Snow (first name John).

 

[CoFire]

So, I enjoyed Verite quite a bit with your playlist. Especially Francis Lockwood and Christian McBride. It's kinda going to come down to whether or not you like the signature and want to hear that stuff straight neutral or with a nice layer of warmth on it. If you like a more neutral-ish sound, all of this stuff is absolutely spot on with Auteur. If you want a little warmer, more laid back sound and a bit more bass emphasis, Verite is good for that. Verite also gives you a good bit of extra stage size and inner detail as well.

I thought @Blase was spot on with his inquiry as I am also perplexed. Yes, I've read the audiophile terminology and understand is a good "non exact" reference point. I think it's a great reference.

I think when you say the Verite is more laid back than the Autuer, that causes confusion. Given the Be coated driver construction and most the impressions thus far, sharper attack, quicker transients, great dynamics, this seems contrary to laid back compared to the Autuer.

Laid-back - Recessed, distant-sounding, having exaggerated depth, usually because of a dished midrange. Compare "Forward".

Is the Verite more laid back than the Autuer?

 

[Hansotek]

Or that the terminology isn't rigid & people use phrases differently. I'm not going to disregard the rest of the FR just because the mids are recessed (with the Elear again as an example.) If they're fast & in your face that's the antithesis of laid back. We'll just have to agree to disagree here. Finished Oxnard by the way. Skip it if you're an Anderson .Paak fan.

I'm not trying to insult you or anything here, but I think if you read those terms, you're going to get what I'm talking about. Here, I'll save you the trouble of going to the page:

Laid-back - Recessed, distant-sounding, having exaggerated depth, usually because of a dished midrange. Compare "Forward".

Forward(ness) - Similar to an aggressive sound, a sense of image being projected in front of the speakers and of music being forced upon the listener. Compare "Laid-back".

It seemed you were having trouble with what I was saying, so hopefully that helps. Laid-back presentation of vocals is not the same as a mellow sounding headphone. I'm talking relative to neutral here, just to clarify. Not trying to be a pain here, just trying to help you understand what I'm saying.

 

[Blase]

Glad I wasn't the only one. @Hansotek the Elear has one of the most recessed upper midranges I've ever heard. Would you consider that headphone "laid back" too?

 

[Hansotek]

I thought @Blase was spot on with his inquiry as I am also perplexed. Yes, I've read the audiophile terminology and understand is a good "non exact" reference point. I think it's a great reference.

I think when you say the Verite is more laid back than the Autuer, that causes confusion. Given the Be coated driver construction and most the impressions thus far, sharper attack, quicker transients, great dynamics, this seems contrary to laid back compared to the Autuer.

Laid-back - Recessed, distant-sounding, having exaggerated depth, usually because of a dished midrange. Compare "Forward".

Is the Verite more laid back than the Autuer?

Yes. If we're calling Auteur "flat", Verite has more volume through the midbass and the lower mids and less volume above 1kHz or so.

 

[Hansotek]

Glad I wasn't the only one. @Hansotek the Elear has one of the most recessed upper midranges I've ever heard. Would you consider that headphone "laid back" too?

Yes. Laid back describes the upper midrange. Elear is laid back in its presentation. That doesn't mean that it's "mellow sounding". I did not define these terms, I'm just using the agreed-upon audio terminology.

 

[gLer]

Yes. Laid back describes the upper midrange. Elear is laid back in its presentation. That doesn't mean that it's "mellow sounding". I did not define these terms, I'm just using the agreed-upon audio terminology.

I must admit that while I follow your logic that’s the first time I’ve heard the Elear being described as laid back. By the same agreed definitions, the Elear can give a sense of music being forced upon the listener. So can it be that a headphone (like the Elear and maybe Verite) is both laid back and forward at the same time (which would explain your brain struggling to make sense of it)?