[mikem1062]

I've used a Mojo (original), Burson Conductor 3 Ref, and Pendant SE. The VCs sound amazing through the Pendant; great through the Burson C3R, and . . . not great through the Mojo. If the music is simple, uncluttered / not complex - the Mojo can sound OK. Anything more intense or complex and (for me) it just doesn't work with the Mojo - little bass, little magic (a "veiled" sense, etc.). Much less expensive headphones sound much better to me with the Mojo. So before giving up on the VCs - I'd recommend trying a different (more powerful) amp. (I do enjoy the Mojo as a DAC; not as a DAC/amp with the VC)

No personal experience with the tinnitus you mention.

 

[yrstruly]

I've used a Mojo (original), Burson Conductor 3 Ref, and Pendant SE. The VCs sound amazing through the Pendant; great through the Burson C3R, and . . . not great through the Mojo. If the music is simple, uncluttered / not complex - the Mojo can sound OK. Anything more intense or complex and (for me) it just doesn't work with the Mojo - little bass, little magic (a "veiled" sense, etc.). Much less expensive headphones sound much better to me with the Mojo. So before giving up on the VCs - I'd recommend trying a different (more powerful) amp. (I do enjoy the Mojo as a DAC; not as a DAC/amp with the VC)

No personal experience with the tinnitus you mention.

Interesting - thanks. I did anticipate being called out on using only the Mojo 2 and don’t doubt it would sound better through a more powerful amp. I would say I’ve noticed a pretty substantial improvement between Mojo 1 and 2, and I think someone commented earlier in this thread with very positive impressions of running the VC through the Mojo 2. I do think it’s more a fatigue/tinnitus issue given how my ears are feeling both during after a listening session with the VC.

 

[erics75]

OK I'm somewhat late to the VC party - having a bit of a weird time with them potentially aggravating my tinnitus and would be keen to hear what you guys think. Excuse the essay...

I got a pair of the Sapele a few weeks ago. For context, I've had the Stellia for about 4-5 months and have loved those, but was curious to try and "bigger", more enveloping sound. Have been listening just through a Mojo 2 and Tidal for now, and have preferred using the Universe lambskin pads as I find those give the smoothest and most engaging sound profile of the stock pads. Initially, I was a bit disappointed with the sound - the VC struck me as almost low resolution and veiled compared to what I was used to and expecting for the price. After some perseverance and possible combo of brain and driver burn in (am at about 100 hours roughly now), they've started to sound much sweeter to my ears and the details easier to discern.

However, I'm getting the nagging feeling of ear fatigue in a way I don't normally get with dark/warm sounding closed sets. I've had tinnitus for well over a decade from too many gigs as a youngster, and tend to know which sound signatures to avoid so as not to aggravate it, and have also been using closed backs for a good while. It's almost like I'll be listening and something is getting in the way of me hearing the details clearly, like there's something making me perceive the sound as more veiled than it actually is. I'm wondering if it's something to do with the design of the cups, or how insanely well isolating these are, that is making the tinnitus more noticeable and seem louder against the music, if that makes sense.

Has anyone had any experience of this with ZMF closed backs? It's a bit of a bummer as for the first time in quite a while I feel like the tinnitus is getting in the way of the hobby for me Thoughts welcome!

I can't speak on the Mojo 2/VC combo specifically, but I can comment on the Mojo 2 with the Atrium and Atticus. I don't like the pairing much at all honestly. Tonally, the Mojo sounds fine. But IMO the power supply is not adequate for these big ZMFs. I think when pushed hard with big dynamic shifts in volume, the Mojo struggles. Notes start to blur together, and the overall dynamic range shrinks. Bass gets slower and less nuanced. Treble gets brittle and thin. When going to some of my more powerful amps run via a wall plug, that issue is nonexistent. This makes me think the battery powered Mojo just runs out of steam with high ohm headphones when pushed hard. When I swap the ZMFs for more efficient headphones like the the Focal Clear, DT 700, K371, SR325X, etc, they all maintain their dynamic range when pushed hard. The highest impedance of that bunch is the Clear at 80. IMO try the VC on another amp with a more robust power supply before passing judgment.

EDIT - And wanted to also add I'm not hating on the Mojo 2, I actually love it, and will be buying one once I'm back to work. I had my friend's Mojo 2 for about 4 months while he was working in Australia I REALLY like how the SR325X sounds on it, and how great it is to be able to move about untethered to outlets. But for ZMFs specifically, it's a hard pass for me.

 

[9bphillips]

OK I'm somewhat late to the VC party - having a bit of a weird time with them potentially aggravating my tinnitus and would be keen to hear what you guys think. Excuse the essay...

I got a pair of the Sapele a few weeks ago. For context, I've had the Stellia for about 4-5 months and have loved those, but was curious to try and "bigger", more enveloping sound. Have been listening just through a Mojo 2 and Tidal for now, and have preferred using the Universe lambskin pads as I find those give the smoothest and most engaging sound profile of the stock pads. Initially, I was a bit disappointed with the sound - the VC struck me as almost low resolution and veiled compared to what I was used to and expecting for the price. After some perseverance and possible combo of brain and driver burn in (am at about 100 hours roughly now), they've started to sound much sweeter to my ears and the details easier to discern.

However, I'm getting the nagging feling of ear fatigue in a way I don't normally get with dark/warm sounding closed sets. I've had tinnitus for well over a decade from too many gigs as a youngster, and tend to know which sound signatures to avoid so as not to aggravate it, and have also een using closed backs for a good while. It's almost like I'll be listening and something is getting in the way of me hearing the details clearly, like there's something making me perceive the sound as more veiled than it actually is. I'm wondering if it's something to do with the design of the cups, or how insanely well isolating these are, that is making the tinnitus more noticeable and seem louder against the music, if that makes sense.

Has anyone had any experience of this with ZMF closed backs? It's a bit of a bummer as for the first time in quite a while I feel like the tinnitus is getting in the way of the hobby for me Thoughts welcome!

I haven't ever had that happen. What all pads have you tried? I have tried the VC with a portable device which is my dx300 and didn't like it. Put it on my wa22 tube amp and WOW! It also sounded great on my Burson Soloist 3xp and Soloist GT when I had them. If you are getting fatigue maybe try a suede pad. My preferred pads for the VC are the auteur lambskin and auteur hybrid.

 

[folkguy]

@yrstruly I'm surprised the Stellia with its sheer upper mids and treble emphasis didn't trigger the tinnitus more in a way. I had both headphones at one point and preferred the longer decay and superior timbre on the VC for acoustic instruments, Stellia was quicker with the details brought more forward, with VC those details were more in the background.

That said what it could be is, VC's upper mids are more recessed into a lil treble peak somewhere between 5k-6k, plus it has longer decay which I "believe" is also less dampened than Stellia inside the cups, possibly aggravating that part of the FR in a closed back causing the peak to stand out. Stellia has some sort of absorption material inside, maybe not too dissimilar to DCA Stealth? I'm guessing that helps mitigate peaks somewhat but I'm totally just spitballing here.

I have tinnitus as well and noticed closed backs and IEM's trigger it more than any open back do. Best I can do to try and explain what might be going on, VC was also extremely isolating, more than Stellia in my experience.

 

[yrstruly]

I can't speak on the Mojo 2/VC combo specifically, but I can comment on the Mojo 2 with the Atrium and Atticus. I don't like the pairing much at all honestly. Tonally, the Mojo sounds fine. But IMO the power supply is not adequate for these big ZMFs. I think when pushed hard with big dynamic shifts in volume, the Mojo struggles. Notes start to blur together, and the overall dynamic range shrinks. Bass gets slower and less nuanced. Treble gets brittle and thin. When going to some of my more powerful amps run via a wall plug, that issue is nonexistent. This makes me think the battery powered Mojo just runs out of steam with high ohm headphones when pushed hard. When I swap the ZMFs for more efficient headphones like the the Focal Clear, DT 700, K371, SR325X, etc, they all maintain their dynamic range when pushed hard. The highest impedance of that bunch is the Clear at 80. IMO try the VC on another amp with a more robust power supply before passing judgment.

EDIT - And wanted to also add I'm not hating on the Mojo 2, I actually love it, and will be buying one once I'm back to work. I had my friend's Mojo 2 for about 4 months while he was working in Australia I REALLY like how the SR325X sounds on it, and how great it is to be able to move about untethered to outlets. But for ZMFs specifically, it's a hard pass for me.

This is helpful to know, thanks. This does make sense and I'll try to get hold of a better amp to test out before I bail on these. I guess I just wanted to rule out anything else being the issue here w/r/t the tinnitus issue. Cheers again

 

[Pharmaboy]

Interesting - thanks. I did anticipate being called on using only the Mojo 2 and don’t doubt it would sound better through a more powerful amp. I would say I’ve noticed a pretty substantial improvement between Mojo 1 and 2, and I think someone commented earlier in this thread with very positive impressions of running the VC through the Mojo 2. I do think it’s more a fatigue/tinnitus issue given how my ears are feeling both during after a listening session with the VC.

Sad to say, I have plenty of experience not just with tinnitus (that really messes with this hobby), but also migraine. I had the VC on loan for a couple weeks w/the VO, when it first launched. I've come to a few conclusions about my situation. Some of them may pertain to you:

1. Some of the fatigue/tinnitus issue you speak of could be due to bright/edgy tonality of audio gear. At least for me, it comes on more quickly if I listen to relatively bright things, whether headphones or electronics
2. Obviously some headphones are brighter than others. The VC is not an especially bright headphone, but it is very incisive and dynamic, which sometimes lead to the same discomfort, at least for me
   • For me an electronic culprit is delta-sigma DACs. These tend to give me low-level sonic annoyance and aggravation. When I switched over the R2R and NOS DACs, that issue went away
3. Excessive volume is also an obvious culprit. Some of us listen to music at rather high volumes. It sounds great & feels good, at least for awhile. With tinnitus, simply moderating the volume somewhat can get you more listening time
4. I found I can listen longer & w/less discomfort to open-back headphones than closed-backs. The former generally have a more relazed, open vibe than closed backs (I know this doesn't help you with the VC)
5. I also found I can listen longer & with less discomfort to planar headphones vs dynamics. I suspect that has to do the low distortion and rather different note propagation mechanism of planars.

Beyond those details, the #1 piece of advice I can give is to pay attention to your subtle feelings of discomfort. Once that starts, take off the headphones and do it again another. I've never managed to "listen through" my discomfort to the point where it vanishes and everything is OK.

 

[yrstruly]

I haven't ever had that happen. What all pads have you tried? I have tried the VC with a portable device which is my dx300 and didn't like it. Put it on my wa22 tube amp and WOW! It also sounded great on my Burson Soloist 3xp and Soloist GT when I had them. If you are getting fatigue maybe try a suede pad. My preferred pads for the VC are the auteur lambskin and auteur hybrid.

Have only tried the Auteur & Universe lambskin pads which came with the Sapele! True it could be a pad issue too. So many variables haha...

 

[folkguy]

Also yes can confirm, plugged it into a Mojo 2 when I had VC and loved it for the DAC quality but when I plugged VC into an old vintage speaker amp with different albeit worse DAC that was actually when it sounded its best, warmer, deeper bass, bigger stage, softer transients (less treble peak) and better dynamics as previous poster noted.

 

[yrstruly]

@yrstruly I'm surprised the Stellia with its sheer upper mids and treble emphasis didn't trigger the tinnitus more in a way. I had both headphones at one point and preferred the longer decay and superior timbre on the VC for acoustic instruments, Stellia was quicker with the details brought more forward, with VC those details were more in the background.

That said what it could be is, VC's upper mids are more recessed into a lil treble peak somewhere between 5k-6k, plus it has longer decay which I "believe" is also less dampened than Stellia inside the cups, possibly aggravating that part of the FR in a closed back causing the peak to stand out. Stellia has some sort of absorption material inside, maybe not too dissimilar to DCA Stealth? I'm guessing that helps mitigate peaks somewhat but I'm totally just spitballing here.

I have tinnitus as well and noticed closed backs and IEM's trigger it more than any open back do. Best I can do to try and explain what might be going on, VC was also extremely isolating, more than Stellia in my experience.

Agreed I would have assumed the Stellia would be more fatiguing given the upper mid focus as you say, but it ends up not being the case.

I don't think I find the higher region on the VC particularly painful or troublesome, instead I feel like with the VC the tinnitus/fatigue might be caused by "pressure" which might be down to how much they isolate - was wondering if the famed reverb effect the VC have is playing into things too.

 

[kumar402]

OK I'm somewhat late to the VC party - having a bit of a weird time with them potentially aggravating my tinnitus and would be keen to hear what you guys think. Excuse the essay...

I got a pair of the Sapele a few weeks ago. For context, I've had the Stellia for about 4-5 months and have loved those, but was curious to try and "bigger", more enveloping sound. Have been listening just through a Mojo 2 and Tidal for now, and have preferred using the Universe lambskin pads as I find those give the smoothest and most engaging sound profile of the stock pads. Initially, I was a bit disappointed with the sound - the VC struck me as almost low resolution and veiled compared to what I was used to and expecting for the price. After some perseverance and possible combo of brain and driver burn in (am at about 100 hours roughly now), they've started to sound much sweeter to my ears and the details easier to discern.

However, I'm getting the nagging feeling of ear fatigue in a way I don't normally get with dark/warm sounding closed sets. I've had tinnitus for well over a decade from too many gigs as a youngster, and tend to know which sound signatures to avoid so as not to aggravate it, and have also been using closed backs for a good while. It's almost like I'll be listening and something is getting in the way of me hearing the details clearly, like there's something making me perceive the sound as more veiled than it actually is. I'm wondering if it's something to do with the design of the cups, or how insanely well isolating these are, that is making the tinnitus more noticeable and seem louder against the music, if that makes sense.

Has anyone had any experience of this with ZMF closed backs? It's a bit of a bummer as for the first time in quite a while I feel like the tinnitus is getting in the way of the hobby for me Thoughts welcome!

No experience with Mojo 2 but I would use VC with high output impedence amp.
Also check for Universe Suede pads as they may offer relaxed presentation and will not be as intense as Lambskin.

 

[robo24]

I don't think of the VC as veiled or necessarily warm but I do seem to notice my tinnitus more with closed backs. They actually seem brighter to me than the VO & Atrium, perhaps that treble peak mentioned, which I think might be part of the tinnitus issue for me. Agree with the others to move on from the Mojo. Initially I liked even the Hugo 2 & TT2 with the ZMFs including the VC, but after using tubes far more I couldn't go back to them. The output impedence on the Chord DAC/Amps is just way too low to be a good match. They're still great just as DACs though. I'd also play with different pad options. Some say they even change up to 300 hours of burn in so I wouldn't give up until you're there and have tried those other suggestions.

 

[gonintendo]

You could try some suede or hybrid pads, which should blunt the dynamics a bit. I also find my VCs to be far less fatiguing on the high Z tap of my tube amp, doubly so with a good nos dac (but that’s a big commitment to make to a headphone you’re not meshing with already, if you don’t have other sets that would benefit)
Could the pressure also be from too much clamp? You can bend the headband a bit to relieve some clamp

 

[yrstruly]

Sad to say, I have plenty of experience not just with tinnitus (that really messes with this hobby), but also migraine. I had the VC on loan for a couple weeks w/the VO, when it first launched. I've come to a few conclusions about my situation. Some of them may pertain to you:

1. Some of the fatigue/tinnitus issue you speak of could be due to bright/edgy tonality of audio gear. At least for me, it comes on more quickly if I listen to relatively bright things, whether headphones or electronics
2. Obviously some headphones are brighter than others. The VC is not an especially bright headphone, but it is very incisive and dynamic, which sometimes lead to the same discomfort, at least for me
   • For me an electronic culprit is delta-sigma DACs. These tend to give me low-level sonic annoyance and aggravation. When I switched over the R2R and NOS DACs, that issue went away
3. Excessive volume is also an obvious culprit. Some of us listen to music at rather high volumes. It sound great & feels good, at least for awhile. With tinnitus, simply moderating the volume somewhat can get you more listening time
4. I found I can listen longer & w/less discomfort to open-back headphones than closed-backs. The former generally have a more relazed, open vibe than closed backs (I know this doesn't help you with the VC)
5. I also found I can listen longer & with less discomfort to planar headphones vs dynamics. I suspect that has to do the low distortion and rather different note propagation mechanism of planars.

Beyond those details, the #1 piece of advice I can give is to pay attention to your subtle feelings of discomfort. Once that starts, take off the headphones and do it again another. I've never managed to "listen through" my discomfort to the point where it vanishes and everything is OK.

Ah yes I did see some of your previous posts on this - thanks for chiming in mate and great post. Number 3 is a very valid point - I might be cranking the volume up more than I usually would due to the more relaxed aspects of the sound signature (noting the VC is also pretty punchy/dynamic at times!).

It could also be the case I need to move onto open-backs more. I certainly find my Focal Clear OG an easier listen than the VC right now.

Also agreed about not trying to push through the discomfort. You just know when something doesn't feel right!

 

[yrstruly]

You could try some suede or hybrid pads, which should blunt the dynamics a bit. I also find my VCs to be far less fatiguing on the high Z tap of my tube amp, doubly so with a good nos dac (but that’s a big commitment to make to a headphone you’re not meshing with already, if you don’t have other sets that would benefit)
Could the pressure also be from too much clamp? You can bend the headband a bit to relieve some clamp

Noted on the pads. With the Universe lambskin your ears are pretty darn close to the drivers right...

And yeah that's the dilemma on the amp haha - do I fork out even more on something that I'm already this unsure about. I'm probably an idiot for expecting the Mojo 2 to suffice for now. But here we are.

Gonna have another listening sesh now and see if it's a clamp issue.