[Gabola]

I just put an order on the TOR Audio Roger to pair with my Aeolus hoping to get into the tube scene. I thought the wait for a ZMF headphone was long (2-3 months). The TOR is going to be 6 months!!

 

[Pharmaboy]

Hey!

So i have finally decided to buy the Aeolus after being able to demo them and the Auteur. I have a budget of 1000€ ( About 1000 USD) for an Amp & Dac. I have a pair of Philips X2 and Mrspeakers Mad Dogs (Alpha pads). I would really like a combo that would work with all 3 headphones and i have been looking at the Bifrost and Lyr 3. But that combo is out of my budget on its own without the shipping and import costs (25% added). Does anyone know a good european combo? I have been looking at the Feliks Echo (OTL) but i don't think it will play nice with orthodynamic or low impedence headphones. I have also been thinking about buying the Asgard 3 + Modius and then get an OTL amp separately.

Preliminary Comment: I tested a borrowed Aeolus & my own blackwood Aeolus on a number of SS amps in my system (9 or 10 over past 2 years). The Aeolus sounds pretty fine on all of them, though it does scale higher w/bigger, stronger SS amps like the V281. I say this because some fear they need a pricey OTL tube amp to hear anything good out of their new Aeolus, and that's just not the case...

3 possibilities w/in your budget:

1 - Audio GD R2 11: An inexpensive combo that happens to contain the least expensive NOS DAC around. It comes in at ~50% of your budget for a true NOS DAC + a strong/neutral-sounding* single-ended amp that would have zero trouble with any of the intended headphones:

http://www.audio-gd.com/R2R/R2R11/R2R11EN.htm

There's a thread here for this one; many praise this NOS' sound. To summarize some points of controversy re this combo:

• It's Chinese-manufactured (some don't like that)
• It does not do well at all w/DSD files, though that may have changed. Also no MQA (some hate it for both things)
• And it doesn't measure particularly well (we have AudioScienceReview to thank for that). Some hate this combo for that: though in truth, no NOS DAC measures to the pristine/extreme extent that delta-sigma DACs do, thus proving once again that great measurements do not necessarily equal great sound

Your best place to get this unit would be Magni Hifi in the the Netherlands. I bought both my Audio GD DACs from them....Jos was extremely helpful:
https://magnahifi.com/

2 - JDS Element: This one is even less expensive. I've never heard one, but some really like this sound.
https://jdslabs.com/product/element-ii/

3 - xDuoo TA-30: A bit more $$ but still inexpensive. I had the TA-20 recently (smaller tube hybrid model) & was pretty impressed with the TA-20, finding it to be sonic over-achiever. So if it were me, I'd look at this one:
https://www.headfonia.com/xduoo-ta-30-review/


*At one time I owned an older AGD combo unit, the 15.32, with a Wolfson DAC & single-ended headphone amp, very likely the same amp section in the R2 11. I didn't care for that DAC much, but the amplifier was powerful & neutral-sounding, real down-the-middle SS.

 

[MacMan31]

So I am looking at a used set of Aeolus as an "upgrade" to my HD6XX. Someone is offering me a set for 1400 Canadian. Would these be considered like a "super HD650"?

 

[jnak00]

So I am looking at a used set of Aeolus as an "upgrade" to my HD6XX. Someone is offering me a set for 1400 Canadian. Would these be considered like a "super HD650"?

Yes, many have called them that.

 

[MacMan31]

Yes, many have called them that.

But are they worth that price? I've heard that any warranty is not transferrable so a used set would have no warranty. Also someone on Reddit has suggested the Focal Clear as a good upgrade for the HD6XX.

 

[Callius]

Preliminary Comment: I tested a borrowed Aeolus & my own blackwood Aeolus on a number of SS amps in my system (9 or 10 over past 2 years). The Aeolus sounds pretty fine on all of them, though it does scale higher w/bigger, stronger SS amps like the V281. I say this because some fear they need a pricey OTL tube amp to hear anything good out of their new Aeolus, and that's just not the case...

3 possibilities w/in your budget:

1 - Audio GD R2 11: An inexpensive combo that happens to contain the least expensive NOS DAC around. It comes in at ~50% of your budget for a true NOS DAC + a strong/neutral-sounding* single-ended amp that would have zero trouble with any of the intended headphones:

http://www.audio-gd.com/R2R/R2R11/R2R11EN.htm

There's a thread here for this one; many praise this NOS' sound. To summarize some points of controversy re this combo:

• It's Chinese-manufactured (some don't like that)
• It does not do well at all w/DSD files, though that may have changed. Also no MQA (some hate it for both things)
• And it doesn't measure particularly well (we have AudioScienceReview to thank for that). Some hate this combo for that: though in truth, no NOS DAC measures to the pristine/extreme extent that delta-sigma DACs do, thus proving once again that great measurements do not necessarily equal great sound

Your best place to get this unit would be Magni Hifi in the the Netherlands. I bought both my Audio GD DACs from them....Jos was extremely helpful:
https://magnahifi.com/

2 - JDS Element: This one is even less expensive. I've never heard one, but some really like this sound.
https://jdslabs.com/product/element-ii/

3 - xDuoo TA-30: A bit more $$ but still inexpensive. I had the TA-20 recently (smaller tube hybrid model) & was pretty impressed with the TA-20, finding it to be sonic over-achiever. So if it were me, I'd look at this one:
https://www.headfonia.com/xduoo-ta-30-review/


*At one time I owned an older AGD combo unit, the 15.32, with a Wolfson DAC & single-ended headphone amp, very likely the same amp section in the R2 11. I didn't care for that DAC much, but the amplifier was powerful & neutral-sounding, real down-the-middle SS.

Thank you for such an elaborate response!
I have looked at the amps you recommended and i am thinking about the XDUOO TA tube amplifiers. Is it better to have an standalone tube/hybrid amp and then add an dac which would be TA-20 + SMSL SU-8? Or is it better to have an amp/dac such as the TA-30? im thinking it might be better having the dac separate so i can upgrade the amp further on?

 

[Marlowe]

So I am looking at a used set of Aeolus as an "upgrade" to my HD6XX. Someone is offering me a set for 1400 Canadian. Would these be considered like a "super HD650"?

At the risk of being a fool (since I do not know the tax/custom/shipping situation when ordering US goods in Canada), I am just wondering why you would consider a used, warrantless Aeolus when a new one with a lifetime warrant is only $90 US more, according to a quick conversion. Outside of obviating the wait, of course (mine was about seven weeks late last spring). FWIW, ZMF does not charge state sales tax in the US and shipping was only about twenty bucks; I realize this may not be the case for Canadian orders. (I also realize that this may just reflect my personal aversion to buying used.)

As for your question, I am not the best person to answer since I am relatively new to the hobby, am not good at describing sound or comparisons, and have old (67) ears. I can say that to me the Aeolus just whips the 6XX and leaves it for dead in almost every way. While the 6XX does have a marvelous midrange and vocals, bass is a little lacking despite overall warm sound and I have trouble getting past the fact that this full size, completely open headphone has a soundstage narrower than a good IEM. The Aeolus pretty much matches the 6XX mids, has far better and more impactful bass, and has great separation and, at least to me, a fairly wide soundstage (it pretty much matches my Focal Elex and is not that much narrower than the famously wide Sennheiser HD 700). And while the 6XX is well built, it is utterly plasticky and feels cheap (this may not have been the case fifteen years ago, but it sure is today). The Aeolus ..., well, it does not, LOL. (Nor do I think you'd get a series of personal emails about correcting a minor problem with the yoke connection from Sennheiser execs as I did from ZMF chief Zach, who responded to my first email the same day during the Christmas season.)

 

[jnak00]

But are they worth that price? I've heard that any warranty is not transferrable so a used set would have no warranty. Also someone on Reddit has suggested the Focal Clear as a good upgrade for the HD6XX.

That's an impossible question since "worth" will vary from person to person. $1400 is a lot of coin. It's not much less than new, but saves you the weeks or months long wait. ZMF stuff does seem to hold its value though, so you could probably flip them for a similar price if you don't like them.

For me personally, I have been very happy with my Aeolus and think they were worth every penny.

 

[YtseJamer]

At the risk of being a fool (since I do not know the tax/custom/shipping situation when ordering US goods in Canada), I am just wondering why you would consider a used, warrantless Aeolus when a new one with a lifetime warrant is only $90 US more, according to a quick conversion. Outside of obviating the wait, of course (mine was about seven weeks late last spring). FWIW, ZMF does not charge state sales tax in the US and shipping was only about twenty bucks; I realize this may not be the case for Canadian orders. (I also realize that this may just reflect my personal aversion to buying used.)

$1400 CAD is a fair price for a used pair. It's going to cost him $1750 CAD if he's ordering a new pair from ZMF.

 

[MacMan31]

At the risk of being a fool (since I do not know the tax/custom/shipping situation when ordering US goods in Canada), I am just wondering why you would consider a used, warrantless Aeolus when a new one with a lifetime warrant is only $90 US more, according to a quick conversion. Outside of obviating the wait, of course (mine was about seven weeks late last spring). FWIW, ZMF does not charge state sales tax in the US and shipping was only about twenty bucks; I realize this may not be the case for Canadian orders. (I also realize that this may just reflect my personal aversion to buying used.)

As for your question, I am not the best person to answer since I am relatively new to the hobby, am not good at describing sound or comparisons, and have old (67) ears. I can say that to me the Aeolus just whips the 6XX and leaves it for dead in almost every way. While the 6XX does have a marvelous midrange and vocals, bass is a little lacking despite overall warm sound and I have trouble getting past the fact that this full size, completely open headphone has a soundstage narrower than a good IEM. The Aeolus pretty much matches the 6XX mids, has far better and more impactful bass, and has great separation and, at least to me, a fairly wide soundstage (it pretty much matches my Focal Elex and is not that much narrower than the famously wide Sennheiser HD 700). And while the 6XX is well built, it is utterly plasticky and feels cheap (this may not have been the case fifteen years ago, but it sure is today). The Aeolus ..., well, it does not, LOL. (Nor do I think you'd get a series of personal emails about correcting a minor problem with the yoke connection from Sennheiser execs as I did from ZMF chief Zach, who responded to my first email the same day during the Christmas season.)

Well a brand new Aeolus is $1537 US which translates to $1939 Canadian. That's a big difference for me. Either price is far higher than I have ever paid for a headphone. I'm 38 years old and still somewhat young to this hobby. Only been in this for about 5 years. Even a few years ago I would have never thought of spending over $300 for a pair of headphones. Same idea for my two channel stereo setup. With a mix of new and used gear I paid around $3,000. I never thought I would ever spend that kind of money on a sound system. I am certainly satisfied with the results so I guess I can justify the cost. In any case two grand for a set of headphones is a lot for me. Is the price justified? Perhaps so as ZMF hand makes their headphones compared to other which are mass produced. But I think what puts me off is the exchange rate from US to Canadian dollar. It would definitely be an investment that's for sure.

 

[MacMan31]

That's an impossible question since "worth" will vary from person to person. $1400 is a lot of coin. It's not much less than new, but saves you the weeks or months long wait. ZMF stuff does seem to hold its value though, so you could probably flip them for a similar price if you don't like them.

For me personally, I have been very happy with my Aeolus and think they were worth every penny.

Yes true that worth varies between people. Brand new would cost me at least $600 more. Now from what I hear the warranty is lifetime. Even so does that justify the extra $600?

 

[YtseJamer]

Well a brand new Aeolus is $1537 US which translates to $1939 Canadian. That's a big difference for me. Either price is far higher than I have ever paid for a headphone. I'm 38 years old and still somewhat young to this hobby. Only been in this for about 5 years. Even a few years ago I would have never thought of spending over $300 for a pair of headphones. Same idea for my two channel stereo setup. With a mix of new and used gear I paid around $3,000. I never thought I would ever spend that kind of money on a sound system. I am certainly satisfied with the results so I guess I can justify the cost. In any case two grand for a set of headphones is a lot for me. Is the price justified? Perhaps so as ZMF hand makes their headphones compared to other which are mass produced. But I think what puts me off is the exchange rate from US to Canadian dollar. It would definitely be an investment that's for sure.

It's $1200 USD for a new pair of Aeolus Sapele. $1750 CAD with the shipping and the customs fees at the end.

$1400 CAD is a good deal if they are in a very good conditions.

 

[CaptainFantastic]

So I am looking at a used set of Aeolus as an "upgrade" to my HD6XX. Someone is offering me a set for 1400 Canadian. Would these be considered like a "super HD650"?

Regarding the price, to echo what others have said, in my experience a brand new headphone is worth the extra price most of the time. I realize with customs (are these applicable when buying in Canada from the U.S.?) it could cost a bit more still, but it's worth it, especially for an item with an artisanal, premium feel like a ZMF.

 

[MacMan31]

It's $1200 USD for a new pair of Aeolus Sapele. $1750 CAD with the shipping and the customs fees at the end.

$1400 CAD is a good deal if they are in a very good conditions.

Well it turns out I made an error. When I go to the ZMF website it gives me the prices in Canadian dollars. There is a thing at the bottom of the page to change the currency. I did not know that until now. Perhaps ZMF should move that to the top of their web page.

 

[MacMan31]

Regarding the price, to echo what others have said, in my experience a brand new headphone is worth the extra price most of the time. I realize with customs (are these applicable when buying in Canada from the U.S.?) it could cost a bit more still, but it's worth it, especially for an item with an artisanal, premium feel like a ZMF.

True. Plus ZMF seems to have a lifetime warranty. But as I just mentioned to another poster I made the error of assuming the prices on the ZMF site were in US dollars. Actually when I am viewing the site they are in Canadian dollars. There is a currency switcher at the bottom of the page. ZMF should move that to the top.