ZiShan T1 Hi-Fi Player Thread

Is this the best DAP under $100?

  • Yes

    Votes: 17 23.3%
  • No

    Votes: 20 27.4%
  • Way above the price range!

    Votes: 6 8.2%
  • Could be

    Votes: 30 41.1%

  • Total voters
    73
Aug 27, 2019 at 9:58 PM Post #226 of 652
@citral23 dude, do the the opa1622 mod and stripe the output caps and chart it.

@cqtek it’s all good. No progress comes without healthy confrontation keep doing your thing because you could be onto something!

I have, have you been flaming the whole time on this mod without even reading the charts that I posted ? That's a bit... cavalier...

Take the time to read the post before immediately answering in the future please, or it's not a conversation we're having, just a monologue.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...torial-in-post-2.800208/page-17#post-15073179
 
Aug 27, 2019 at 10:14 PM Post #227 of 652
I have, have you been flaming the whole time on this mod without even reading the charts that I posted ? That's a bit... cavalier...

Take the time to read the post before immediately answering in the future please, or it's not a conversation we're having, just a monologue.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...torial-in-post-2.800208/page-17#post-15073179

The 1K dip isn’t (it’s only at -1.5 dBs) what’s concerning it’s the lower frequencies that are way too high and above 0 dB. The Z3 I have is more bassy but that’s probably due to the clock frequency at 11 (forgot the exact number). Try adding dither to those frequencies. They are why to high and really are introducing unwanted noise. Do you hear a hum or anything??? If not then you should be satisfied with your work.

There should either be a a steep slope at 100 or a smooth one. You can try also to increase the resolution up to 24 bit on your files but that’s where you are get the noise from in my opinion.

The high/low filters are in place for this very reason! You can’t simply rely on op amps alone to do this for you. It would appear that it’s tuned and amped up to the opa1622 in how it relates to DAC since there’s no resistance values in place (oh la la mon dieu)

It’s actually funny to look at these charts apres the iPod revolution and the wide usage of mp3s recording practices.

“WARNING: extremely loud noise when turning off the zishan with this mod, can lead to IEM and/or ear damage. Unplug them before turning the device off.“

The “pop” you hear that can damage your ears is due to the unorthodox usage of opa1622. It must be tested on using the evaluation board and with the correct pin-to-pin connections. Cannot tell you how many times I have mentioned this!

From the TI Website of the Opa1622Evm

Features

Eases design by providing a quick and simple way to evaluate the OPA1622

Audio jack provided on the EVM allows for quick listening tests of the OPA1622

Input connectors on the EVM provide an easy way to evaluate the OPA1622 using an audio analyzer or an audio DAC that will be used in an end product

The EVM design allows access to the Enable pin of the OPA1622 to test for a "pop" and "click" noise while the OPA1622 is being enable and disabled
 
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Aug 27, 2019 at 10:37 PM Post #228 of 652
Yup, output caps are 220uF, assuming earphones are 16Ohm together with 10Ohm output resistors we get High Pass Filter, cut off frequency just under 30Hz. Convention is that filter will produce 3dB attenuation at the cutoff frequency, so this definitely has SOME effect.
Possible solution would be to increase output caps capacitance either by replacing them (not sure if anything of higher capacitance that would fit exists), or paralleling tantalum caps, even extra 100uF will make a difference.
These caps are the only ones that I have found that fit, but you have to lay them this way. nichicon 16v 1000 uf All the other step up caps are too fat. D2C23F4B-FBBF-4465-925D-1C11B986F5CA.jpeg
 
Aug 27, 2019 at 11:35 PM Post #230 of 652
Aug 27, 2019 at 11:37 PM Post #231 of 652
All this talk about eq and charts makes me wanna watch this again. Haha
A097D19B-2A96-4299-A093-02E1077BC1EB.jpeg


With the right kind of trickery I too will have all my knobs turned up to 11!

Special things to Nigel Tufnel for making the Zishan T1 and the Flat Line more popular than having a heart attack.
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Aug 28, 2019 at 6:03 AM Post #232 of 652
But even so, there's something else in T1 that affects the lower zone, @citral23 may be right in his comments.

@citral23 it was “spiked” after he did the opa1622 mod! I don’t know what the chart looks like on T1 but the Zishan DSD Pro is actually pretty good!

Honestly it’s pretty good loaded. The Zishan is using a steep slope in the lower Frequencies. The iems actually corrected the spike in the 2k-5 ish frequencies which is a pretty good thing good in the output (the iems are also tuned and should be charted btw). It’s far worse when you removed the outcaps and did the unorthodox opa1622 mod.

Try replacing the mmx or pin cord but look at the specs when doing for an even better eq to lower those harsh spikes and it is also wise to put the Zishan eq back to stock. The opa1622 mod looks horrible and sounds dangerous with the pop you mention when you open your z2!

Would also like to mention that a DAC with playback functionality and headphone amp are two different concepts. Of course there are DAC/Headphone Amp but the Zishan is just a DAP (mostly) especially on the T1 w/o line-in functionality.

Oh btw, the Zishan makers have developed a headphone amp called the A1. I found it on eBay and seen it being used in Chinese second hand and new e-commerce markets.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/272321213985



DACs on the their own especially the sigma delta ones have noise shaping filters to playback such files as DSD. A headphone amp just amplifies the “pre amp” of the DAC. Some headphone amps have featured knobs for Eq-ing your music. The schiit Loki is a nifty little headphone amp that does this with 8 band eq. Looks pretty fun to use. It’s got all the known shelfs, bells, etc in the correct frequencies with plug in power supply at 8v and 16vdc (if I read that correctly).

Pretty clever little device I’d say with ultra low noise at .0002%

https://www.schiit.com/products/loki

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Aug 28, 2019 at 6:13 AM Post #233 of 652
To HeyManslowdown97 : you pasted the stock measurements, it looks horrible.

Without caps & resistors it's not perfect but it's better :

cqWYuEU.png


I'm tired of your attitude "cannot tell you how many times I told you so" etc.

OPA1622 was put there just for the test, because it has built-in short circuit protection, which is not there if there are no resistors.

It's the third time I tell you this but you keep ignoring it and don't even read what we say, you just go on random rants/monologues without any other purpose than to show you understand everything better than everyone else.

It's getting really tiring and I'm putting you on ignore.

Bye.
 
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Aug 28, 2019 at 6:19 AM Post #234 of 652
You pasted the stock measurements, it looks horrible.

Without caps & resistors it's not perfect but it's better :

cqWYuEU.png


I'm tired of your attitude "cannot tell you how many times I told you so" etc.

OPA1622 was put there just for the test, because it has built-in short circuit protection, which is not there if there are no resistors.

It's the third time I tell you this but you keep ignoring it and don't even read what we say, you just go on random rants/monologues without any other purpose than to show you understand everything better than everyone else.

It's getting really tiring and I'm putting you on ignore.

Bye.

The filters are functioning properly. I have no idea what you are talking about.

The “spike” at the Lower frequencies is after the modification. The cut and paste stock with iems is actually better!

If you don’t understand it. Then take a course in it. They are pretty good in stock.

« OPA1622 was put there just for the test, because it has built-in short circuit protection, which is not there if there are no resistors. »

Most modern op amps have built-in circuit protection when the pins are connected properly not vsson on dip8 isn’t correct and the circuitry isn’t the same on DAC. You must test it using the evaluation board for implementation using the correct design!

My comment was that you can’t simply eq off the op amp unless that’s your approach fair enough!

« WARNING: extremely loud noise when turning off the zishan with this mod, can lead to IEM and/or ear damage. Unplug them before turning the device off. »

It was YOUR words about the pop and warning please don’t be disingenuous and twist things around! Never said this: “cannot tell you how many times I told you so” (“...I mentioned this” about a point of the pop.)

I think the Zishan engineers did a pretty good job. Louder isn’t better you said it yourself. You are not losing any information at 1K with a dip of -1-5 common sense, bro

Get back to the Ohms in the output z. I agree with Users abartels analysis of increasing cap ufs (0605) will give your Zishan better bass response!

I will attempt his mod of removing the 10ohm resistor and soldering in wire!
5A15EB59-2AA8-49C0-8EFB-B37FAE110FC0.jpeg
EC8FA445-1073-4835-BA07-6AA7C8E774DB.jpeg
33ACA109-5035-4A87-95AE-8834B17DAF20.jpeg
 
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Aug 28, 2019 at 10:26 AM Post #236 of 652
Well, as I commented, I measured the frequency responses between the Burson Audio Playmate (Zout < 1), AGPTek Rocker (Zout < 1) and Zishan T1 (Zout = 10).
I think you should despise the differences above 15kHz, which I tell you should not be taken very seriously, as they are not consistent (I must say that I take the measurements with a microphone attached to a vinyl tube on a padded surface ...).
But the rest of the curve already gives a clear idea of what I want to comment: The FR of the sources with flat response and Zout < 1 Ohms, are practically the same. The FR of a source with flat response but with Zout = 10 Ohms, is not equal, for IEMs with low impedances.
And I insist again that I have not spoken at all if one sounds better than the other. These are just simple measures that reveal completely clear results.



Finally, a last test with another source whose Zout = 10 Ohms, as is the DAC Tempotec Serenade iDSD.
It is possible that the FR is more similar to the FR of the Playmate, but there are slight differences in bass and treble. I must say that these differences between Playmate and Serenade are audible, as the Serenade feels more aggressive at the top and more vigorous at the bottom.
But even so, there's something else in T1 that affects the lower zone, @citral23 may be right in his comments.



I also want to clarify that I am not against Zishan or this model. The first thing I love is the intention to make a font as modular and affordable as this one. But as an honest reviewer, I prefer to rely on measurements before making merely subjective value judgments. Measurements are irrefutable, opinions are blown away. That is why I am really worried about having presented erroneous measurements on the T1, relative to the measurements of the waveforms at 75Hz.

And, above all, I am not looking for any confrontation, much less do I want to argue with anyone. I respect all opinions. This is just a hobby for me.

Peace, colleagues.

I actually do see what you mean now! Lowering the resistance is a simple mod and should sound better! The Zishan filters are actually tuned very good! It’s just more smooth slope that starts “cuts” on the lower end so that could be bump up a bit with more ufs in the output caps??

What Nigel did is he flatlined all the frequencies then pushed up the dbs (to 11, of course) but as your iems clearly illustrate that there are slopes on the other dacs when used with the iems. Makes a ton of sense!

I believe the slopes are on par so it could be a question of lowering the output below 10ohms down to 1 to bump up the dbs to 80 to meet the Bursons, etc.


Curious which iems sounded the best on the T1?

Actually funny to look at. This is Spinal Tap stuff. All you need to do is bump up the dbs in the zout not flatline the eq to 11. Lol.
5F13462C-4CD0-40EC-966D-F760CCC9825D.jpeg
 
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Aug 28, 2019 at 11:46 AM Post #237 of 652
Well, I’m out of the T1 game. I pressed the screen too hard and I broke it, now the screen won’t work. Too bad, so sad.
Edit: anyone who wants to trade something for the dual AKM board, PM me.
Dam, that sucks, how did it happen? Was it a simple accident type of thing or did you press furiously in anger or did it freeze and you pressed extremely hard thinking it would respond? In other words is it fragile or did you push too hard for some specific reason?
 
Aug 28, 2019 at 3:53 PM Post #239 of 652
did you tried...massaging the whole screen?

I’ve heard Swedish method works quite well to get the kinks out.

Just kidding, man, that’s a drag hang in there I’m sure someone who actually owns the T1 will be able to successfully troubleshoot a solution to get it working again! Man, I’m glad I showed some resistance in purchasing the T1 seems it’s got some issues in early development. So it’s not true that it’s futile (in certain situations!)

Try connected the seller and tell them if you rely your problem to the makers for possible solutions.

Good luck! :)
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Aug 28, 2019 at 3:58 PM Post #240 of 652
Dam, that sucks, how did it happen? Was it a simple accident type of thing or did you press furiously in anger or did it freeze and you pressed extremely hard thinking it would respond? In other words is it fragile or did you push too hard for some specific reason?
Yes and yes. We’ll sort of. The screen froze and I sort of pressed harder at the very bottom of the screen and towards the middle. It made a crack, then all was lost. I guess if the screen has a crack in it, it’s inoperable.
Is it broken or non responsive?
If non responsive, did you tried the reset button or massaging the whole screen?
No, I did not massage the screen after it broke...but then I did after I read your post.
I massged it massaged it massaged it...nothing. Then I just felt like a dork. Haha
 

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