[Scubadevils]

I should hear the ZEN today so I can’t comment on that. You it seems already have the ZEN, and the XBA-N3. All I will say is the value of having complementary IEMs. I have not received the ZEN, but I have a feeling we are looking at complementary experiences here? I mean why would a company make two close priced different sounding IEMs (ZEN/SA6) unless they were playing with offering a complementary experience. Just knowing their make-up and reading the reviews on the ZEN so far shows they are going to be complementary in nature.

What I can say is the SA6 is absolutely complementary to the N3. So together they basically allow ways to explore music in different ways. The N3 is slower and has way less active top treble area in comparison to what the nature of the SA6 is all about. If you study Crinacle’s introduced IEF Neutral target in contrast to the SA6, it simply reinforces just how conservative the SA6 is tuned. I have not heard the M9 so I can’t reiterate. Also the only reason I even subscribe to his his IEF target is simply due to his understanding of neutral midrange. Truly as far as midrange that level is seen by me to coincide with all I’ve heard ever understood of classic neutral midrange with all the gear I own. The rest of the FR, I could almost care less about because it’s affected by balance. Also the only area I ever have issue with is the 500 to 1K-2K energies. Meaning I’m figuring if the graph isn’t swigged then there is always a chance I’ll like the IEM, as long as the mids sit right?



If you end up going along with his target, like I do, this explains the subtlety of the SA6. Remember too, the 8K spike is an artifact of coupler resonance.

Yes I'll be interested to hear your thoughts when you've had time with ZEN, agreed also on the complimentary nature and the potential to present sound in different ways, exactly why I'm now debating the SA6. Keen to hear how you feel with both via the NW-WM1A as I have that on the way.

 

[feverfive]

Re: future plans for use of this new DD driver

I'd love to see an implementation similar to the DK4001 -- single full range DD driver + multiple other drivers (BA, electrostatic or both) to help with treble extension, perhaps. IMO, such a configuration could help alleviate coherency issues often found in hybrids.

 

[Redcarmoose]

Yes I'll be interested to hear your thoughts when you've had time with ZEN, agreed also on the complimentary nature and the potential to present sound in different ways, exactly why I'm now debating the SA6. Keen to hear how you feel with both via the NW-WM1A as I have that on the way.

Maybe too as a side benefit, you never totally get stuck in one signature. Meaning you are always reset like not using headphones. You never totally get used to the N3 sound or the SA6 sound but alternate simply enjoying the contrast they show reflecting off each other and substantiating each other in existence. Maybe? Can’t comment on the ZEN as contrast as I’ve yet to hear it?

You have a 1A on the way! Get the aftermarket firmwares! WOW!

 

[Scubadevils]

Maybe too as a side benefit, you never totally get stuck in one signature. Meaning you are always reset like not using headphones. You never totally get used to the N3 sound or the SA6 sound but alternate simply enjoying the contrast they show reflecting off each other and substantiating each other in existence. Maybe? Can’t comment on the ZEN as contrast as I’ve yet to hear it?

Yes 100% and on that note I do slightly regret returning the Hidizs MS4 and the E5000. I've been obsessed with ZEN over the last week or so but have dipped back to N3 a couple of times in the last few days and have thoroughly enjoyed the difference, especially with the recommended configuration by @F700 of the upgrade cable and using the Spirals. Observing the differences and how much I enjoy has made it very clear to me that an end game is incredibly unlikely anytime soon, I was kidding myself in thinking ZEN would conclude the journey for long!

Multi BA is where I'm most curious due to having a clear winner DD in Zen and a wonderful hybrid in the N3.

 

[Redcarmoose]

Yes 100% and on that note I do slightly regret returning the Hidizs MS4 and the E5000. I've been obsessed with ZEN over the last week or so but have dipped back to N3 a couple of times in the last few days and have thoroughly enjoyed the difference, especially with the recommended configuration by @F700 of the upgrade cable and using the Spirals. Observing the differences and how much I enjoy has made it very clear to me that an end game is incredibly unlikely anytime soon, I was kidding myself in thinking ZEN would conclude the journey for long!

Multi BA is where I'm most curious due to having a clear winner DD in Zen and a wonderful hybrid in the N3.

I picked up the N3 while at Sony Headquarters in Tokyo in 2018, but never liked it. Finally after getting MrWalkman DMP-Z1 Emulation Firmware MK2 and L DUNU Blue tips it switched to a total favorite, this year! I have IEMs I like better but the N3 became wildly fascinating...........a perfect example of how close we can be to success at times and not know it.

But that big bass N3 slowness you may seem to notice go away with different tips as well as the 1A? I mean maybe you don’t want it to be any different, but I did. It was only then that I truly understood what the N3 was trying to do? Even though it graphs out very different than the IER-Z1R, they both seem alike in ways?

 

[Scubadevils]

I picked up the N3 while at Sony Headquarters in Tokyo in 2018, but never liked it. Finally after getting MrWalkman DMP-Z1 Emulation Firmware MK2 and L DUNU Blue tips it switched to a total favorite, this year! I have IEMs I like better but the N3 became wildly fascinating...........a perfect example of how close we can be to success at times and not know it.

But that big bass N3 slowness you may seem to notice go away with different tips as well as the 1A? I mean maybe you don’t want it to be any different, but I did. It was only then that I truly understood what the N3 was trying to do? Even though it graphs out very different than the IER-Z1R, they both seem alike in ways?

The biggest issue I have with N3 is the fit, really struggle no matter what tips I try to keep them in my ears, I have to loop them over my ear and stay pretty still - with the Spirals and keeping still, they sound much better, the bass toned down nicely, it was often just too much for me, and I do love low end - I think my preference is towards a good balance of low, mid and high. Fit was an issue also with the E5000 too so I'm keeping with monitor style IEMs in future, ZEN fit perfectly and the MS4 did too.

As for the Z1R, not on the radar at the moment but knowing me, that'll change!

 

[Redcarmoose]

The biggest issue I have with N3 is the fit, really struggle no matter what tips I try to keep them in my ears, I have to loop them over my ear and stay pretty still - with the Spirals and keeping still, they sound much better, the bass toned down nicely, it was often just too much for me, and I do love low end - I think my preference is towards a good balance of low, mid and high. Fit was an issue also with the E5000 too so I'm keeping with monitor style IEMs in future, ZEN fit perfectly and the MS4 did too.

As for the Z1R, not on the radar at the moment but knowing me, that'll change!

Actually the two do have graph similarities? You can hear how they parallel 2K back. I guess I have not spent that much time looking at the differences. I’m totally curious how the DUNU ZEN is in direct comparison to the IER-Z1R?

 

[frix]

Although offtopic the xelastic eartips work great with the N3. Wide bore like the spirals and a secure fit due to their sticky material.

 

[Grimlock248]

Although offtopic the xelastic eartips work great with the N3. Wide bore like the spirals and a secure fit due to their sticky material.

Have you tried xelastec tips with the Zen?

 

[milkdudd]

I wonder if it's not source related... for me the mids are silky smooth I could understand this kind of upper mids / treble sensitivity with Luna but Zen to me and out of both DX300 and M8 is silky smooth. I'll try with PAW S1 and the R6 2020 I'll get this week and see if that's an issue I encounter.

Very anxious to hear your results with the new DAP's you have on the way. Especially the R6 2020. As of now that's at the top of my list to buy the next couple weeks or so

 

[frix]

Have you tried xelastec tips with the Zen?

Sadly I don't have the ZEN

 

[antdroid]

Nice job on the review, shouty upper mids means high pitched and unnatural vocals?
I had a problem with Clairvoyance's vocals and the Dusk was way shouty and unnatural for me.
Is this kind of tuning better for some string instruments , like violins, while it's a compromise for other aspects, namely vocals?
I ask because natural vocal tonality is important for me . Thank you

Nah vocals sound great on the Zen in my opinion. I just think that certain instruments sound a little too forward on it. It's not a bad thing, but is a different experience when I'm used to things with larger soundstage. I was going from Odin and over-ear HE6se to Zen too, so take that into account. That said, the SA6 has a more relaxed and open soundstage, but the Zen is more close and intimate but I think it does a great job of a natural sound.

And yes, how you hear it can vary also from music and ear type. Tips matter a bit too, but I feel that affects treble more than anything (which can change perceived bass/mids too).

I listen mostly to piano jazz trio music, bluegrass, indie rock, and post-rock type music, and a lot of Radiohead.

 

[Mehran]

Nah vocals sound great on the Zen in my opinion. I just think that certain instruments sound a little too forward on it. It's not a bad thing, but is a different experience when I'm used to things with larger soundstage. I was going from Odin and over-ear HE6se to Zen too, so take that into account. That said, the SA6 has a more relaxed and open soundstage, but the Zen is more close and intimate but I think it does a great job of a natural sound.

And yes, how you hear it can vary also from music and ear type. Tips matter a bit too, but I feel that affects treble more than anything (which can change perceived bass/mids too).

I listen mostly to piano jazz trio music, bluegrass, indie rock, and post-rock type music, and a lot of Radiohead.

Cool,thank you. I was watching a stream by Resolve on YT and I asked what IEM has the most natural vocal tonality, I think it was Precog who said the Dusk, for me it was the furthest thing from natural. I just can't figure out why I'm hearing so differently . I exclusively use large eartips to get a good seal, azlaseda tips work best for me. Even the vocals on the Mest doesn't sound completely natural to me.

 

[Animagus]

Cool,thank you. I was watching a stream by Resolve on YT and I asked what IEM has the most natural vocal tonality, I think it was Precog who said the Dusk, for me it was the furthest thing from natural. I just can't figure out why I'm hearing so differently . I exclusively use large eartips to get a good seal, azlaseda tips work best for me. Even the vocals on the Mest doesn't sound completely natural to me.

Actually, it all depends on what you've been listening to or are used to. Also, ear training plays a big role. People from the production world like me who work on studio monitors in a studio space everyday and who like reference neutral signatures, be it Diffuse Field or Harman Target inspired, tend to like IEMs with good pinna gain/forward upper midrange. For me, those kinda IEMs have accurate and correct tonality of instruments and sound more natural to me, like real instruments do in real life. Also, the amount of pinna gain one likes and considers perfect is again a personal preference. On the other hand, IEMs like pre-2020 Andromeda which don't have much pinna gain, don't sound as natural in tonality to me. That doesn't mean they aren't fun or liked or have a massive fanbase, because they do! Not every IEM needs to be tuned close to reference and not every person is required to like reference signatures. The variety and flavours is what makes this hobby so interesting!

I've come across a couple of your posts recently and understand that you probably don't like a forward upper midrange presentation. That is completely fine because that is a preference you have and it is one that you should definitely consider when shortlisting IEMs. I'd recommend auditioning as many IEMs as you can and settle for the one you like most. If you're 100% happy and satisfied with one, it shouldn't matter what others think of your choice or how well or badly it was reviewed by reviewers.

Hope this helps.

 

[milkdudd]

Cool,thank you. I was watching a stream by Resolve on YT and I asked what IEM has the most natural vocal tonality, I think it was Precog who said the Dusk, for me it was the furthest thing from natural. I just can't figure out why I'm hearing so differently . I exclusively use large eartips to get a good seal, azlaseda tips work best for me. Even the vocals on the Mest doesn't sound completely natural to me.

I know design-wise it's an apples and oranges thing but how do you like the MEST compared to the Zen? If I had to guess I would say they are more just different than one being better than the other. I'm so happy with the Zen I can't see buying anything else for a while but the MEST is something I've heard so much good about