[jp11801]

Quote:

Originally Posted by augustwest "At the Marin, CA meet last weekend, IIRC, Craig told me that he had to increase the price of the Zana by a couple hundred dollars because he now has to contract out their assembly. He said he no longer had 40 hours to build each one." If this is true? It would seem to raise another question for a potential buyer. How do you feel about your supposed "custom" amp being "out sourced" to a "brown box" manufacturer? What does that mean in terms of repair should it be necessary, or spare parts, or the consistency of the build and parts being used. At the $1900 price point do you expect your custom amp to actually be "custom" built, meaning being not only being designed by the builder, but assembled by him/her too? . . . . .How does that effect it's value in your eyes? Is it really even a "custom amp" any longer? This raises many issues both negative, and positive potentially. What are your feelings about the pros's & con's? - augustwest

what the heck are you talking about to my knowledge neither Singlepower, RSA, Headamp or Headroom amps are built soley by the owner. The Zana is not a custom amp - a custom amp is one that is built to suit. Really for that matter most of the amps out there are not custom in that they have options ans can be improved through options but not custom designed.

BTW Craig uses military spec builders from what I understand to ensure the quality of build is equal to or greater than his own.

 

[jp11801]

Quote:

Originally Posted by granodemostasa i think you'll also have to realize that the ZD is several hundred dollars more than list price since Craig does not provide tubes..... and hunting tubes can be a fustrating experience

those who got in at the $1590 price tubes or no tubes got a deal compared to what the amp will likely cost in the near future. Tube hunting can be frustrating or fun, I love tracking down a pair of great NOS tubes. I guess he could have charged $2000 put in tubes that some would have replaced and upgraded anyway. Instead he left it to each person to source out the tubes they felt better suited their needs.

 

[ironbut]

Quote:

Originally Posted by augustwest "At the Marin, CA meet last weekend, IIRC, Craig told me that he had to increase the price of the Zana by a couple hundred dollars because he now has to contract out their assembly. He said he no longer had 40 hours to build each one." If this is true? It would seem to raise another question for a potential buyer. How do you feel about your supposed "custom" amp being "out sourced" to a "brown box" manufacturer? What does that mean in terms of repair should it be necessary, or spare parts, or the consistency of the build and parts being used. At the $1900 price point do you expect your custom amp to actually be "custom" built, meaning being not only being designed by the builder, but assembled by him/her too? . . . . .How does that effect it's value in your eyes? Is it really even a "custom amp" any longer? This raises many issues both negative, and positive potentially. What are your feelings about the pros's & con's? - augustwest

Craig is using a mil spec's assembly house to build the Zana's. He, very honestly I feel, that they would be able to do a better job with more consistent workmanship then he would be able to do. In an earlier life I took a NASA grade electronics assembly class which was 4 hours a night for 16 nights. Aside from a few classes on component ID, it was all soldering! Every solder joint had to be perfect on a board that had over 100 connections before you could be certified. Perfect as in identical fillets (size, shine , shape, etc). And each lead had to be bent at the right angle and be the right length. You don't get mil spec's quality from someone that has a bottom line to worry about. It's all about practice. Mil spec's mean ' You can bet you life on it' literally.
So does it effect my feelings about the Zana? Yeah,.. I prefer it!

 

[granodemostasa]

i'm sure rolling is fun... and i don't have much against craig for not including tubes... i did order the best ones i could find at the end. what i'm just noting is that the price is going to go higher for tubes. For tube noobs like myself, these things could lead to problems.. i'm sure for more experienced tubemen, they will have no trouble getting what they need.

also... the fact that there will be more ZDs out there... well, i just can't think of my ZD the same as i did when i thought there would only be 6 ever. yet.... it's still pretty cool, and probably won't go into my actual decision when i start reviewing it.

 

[augustwest]

"what the heck are you talking about to my knowledge neither Singlepower, RSA, Headamp or Headroom amps are built soley by the owner. The Zana is not a custom amp - a custom amp is one that is built to suit. Really for that matter most of the amps out there are not custom in that they have options ans can be improved through options but not custom designed."

Again, thank you for your input and opinion. I had always thought about "Craig/Eddie Current/Moth Audio", as a "custom amp builder", as I have others. But you have caused me to re-consider that, I will now think of Craig/EC as more of a distributer/designer, and less as a builder/manufacture, as well as some the others in the field.


"You don't get mil spec's quality from someone that has a bottom line to worry about."

I don't recall anyone in this thread making that accusation, but it is a good thought to keep in mind.


- augustwest

 

[Ray Samuels]

Quote:

Originally Posted by augustwest "what the heck are you talking about to my knowledge neither Singlepower, RSA, Headamp or Headroom amps are built soley by the owner. The Zana is not a custom amp - a custom amp is one that is built to suit. Really for that matter most of the amps out there are not custom in that they have options ans can be improved through options but not custom designed." Again, thank you for your input and opinion. I had always thought about "Craig/Eddie Current/Moth Audio", as a "custom amp builder", as I have others. But you have caused me to re-consider that, I will now think of Craig/EC as more of a distributer/designer, and less as a builder/manufacture, as well as some the others in the field. "You don't get mil spec's quality from someone that has a bottom line to worry about." I don't recall anyone in this thread making that accusation, but it is a good thought to keep in mind. - augustwest

Sorry my friend, a little correction to your statment, all Emmeline amps are built by Ray Samuels, every single one of them, with mil specs parts & know how, including all mils specs tools, solder, thermo wire stripper, pc brds and 15 years of knowledge in the field.
The portables, which are surface mount, they are done by a computer, but through the hole parts are, again, all done by Ray Samuels.
Ray Samuels

 

[shplorgh]

Quote:

Originally Posted by augustwest Again, thank you for your input and opinion. I had always thought about "Craig/Eddie Current/Moth Audio", as a "custom amp builder", as I have others. But you have caused me to re-consider that, I will now think of Craig/EC as more of a distributer/designer, and less as a builder/manufacture, as well as some the others in the field.

Does it really matter at all?

 

[augustwest]

"Sorry, a little correction to your statement, all Emmeline amps are built by Ray Samuels, every single one of them, with mil specs parts & know how,
Including all mil specs tools, solder, thermo wire stripper, pc brds, with 15 years of knowledge in the field.
The portables, which are surface mount, they are done by a computer, but throught the hole parts are, again, all done by Ray Samuels.
Ray Samuels"

It wasn't my statement, but a quote of an earlier one, but thank you for clarification on your products, Ray

"Does it really matter at all?"

I don't know? This is really what these questions are about. . . . Prehaps, prehaps not?

I really hope more members will express their opinions. Thus far it seems it doesn't matter to those who have expressed an opinion. . . . but more thoughts/opinions would give us more of a consensus.


- augustwest

 

[Ray Samuels]

Quote:

Originally Posted by augustwest "Sorry, a little correction to your statement, all Emmeline amps are built by Ray Samuels, every single one of them, with mil specs parts & know how, Including all mil specs tools, solder, thermo wire stripper, pc brds, with 15 years of knowledge in the field. The portables, which are surface mount, they are done by a computer, but throught the hole parts are, again, all done by Ray Samuels. Ray Samuels" It wasn't my statement, but a quote of an earlier one, but thank you for clarification on your products, Ray "Does it really matter at all?" I don't know? This is really what these questions are about. . . . Prehaps, prehaps not? I really hope more members will express their opinions. Thus far it seems it doesn't matter to those who have expressed an opinion. . . . but more thoughts/opinions would give us more of a consensus. - augustwest

Sorry augustwest, my bad, I apologize my friend. I see that John said that. Hi John...
Ray samuels

 

[Mikey01]

Just to note here. My Zana is a "Custom Built" amp by the hands of Craig. It is not at all the same as the ones being sold now. There are some similarities however, but enough different to be a one off design in a different cabinet, Aeon caps, ect, ect.

 

[Mikey01]

Also another thought is that, who cares if the manufacturer has an assembly line full of chickens squattin them out the back end, as long as they look good, hold up well, nicely priced, and most of all "sound good"......Remember: It's all about the sound.

 

[augustwest]

"Just to note here. My Zana is a "Custom Built" amp by the hands of Craig. It is not at all the same as the ones being sold now. There are some similarities however, but enough different to be a one off design in a different cabinet, Aeon caps, ect, ect.

.....Remember: It's all about the sound."

I have always heard good things about your amp. In fact I think it was your amp that the reputation of the Zana Deux was founded on, and got the ball rolling for this particular product. . . . . Prehaps this where I got the idea the Zana was a "custom" product. . . . I'd love to hear it someday, will you be bringing it to the '07 National Meet?

- augustwest

 

[Tuarreg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray Samuels Sorry augustwest, my bad, I apologize my friend. I see that John said that. Hi John... Ray samuels

Hey Ray, care to weigh-in on Zana Deux vs Singlepower?

 

[granodemostasa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuarreg Hey Ray, care to weigh-in on Zana Deux vs Singlepower?

I don't think he would be allowed since there are rules to being a "member of the trade." that... and then we'd have to bring the stealth into the Eddie Current v. Singlepower debate.

 

[purk]

As long as you have a high quality control, you should never have to be worried as to who builds the amp. As long as they hold up. My SDS has been running strong for more than 4 years now w/o any problem.....and I still have 3 years left on the warranty. I bought this amp from Tom Hankins and according to him, this amp should already have close to 10000 hours.